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  1. #1
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    Default Not trying to stir the pot

    Back to the drilled or not question. Tonight I was watching a show on the new C6 development and noticed, on the cars sent to Germany for the high speed testing, had drilled rotors. They were only drilled not slotted. I am in the thought of not using drilled rotors. It just may me go hum.
    Brian



  2. #2
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    Default

    It seems to be a big debate lately.

  3. #3
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    Default

    I saw that show as well, Baz. Very cool show, indeed. I think they did mention however that the holes were cast in. Or was I just hoping they were cast in?

    Gotta love the C6. This pick with the possible dark grey wheels they're thinking of releasing is incredible, I love the car in black. I can't wait to see the C6 Z06.
    Ralph
    '68 Camaro l Project Fantom l Street Fighter
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  4. #4
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    Default Me too

    I am of the same mind, I don't want drilled rotors either. I haven't see a drilled rotor that hasen't spider cracked at the holes yet. I like SSBC's turbo slots the best of the rotors I've seen, but the Baer claw slot is cool looking too. Nascar sees some of most intense braking possible and you rarely see a drilled rotor it those applications. Sloting is very common though.

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  5. #5
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    Default

    Depends if they are cast in or drilled in.. also if they are chamfered (sp?).. A lot of high end sports cars come with "drilled" rotors..
    "A ship in port is safe, but that's not what ships are built for."

    See Bad Penny run the cones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GUPPIX-92U

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  6. #6
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    Default c6 brakes

    One of the engineers admitted in one of the recent magazines it was more for show than go (or stop in this case, I guess). I can't remember which magazine it was. Last month when about 4 hit the newsstand all featuring the Vette, I stood in Vons for about an hour and a hlaf reading em all.

  7. #7
    dennis68 Guest

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    Not trying to stir the pot
    Yeah right. You are going to bring up drilled/slotted rotors and claim not to be poking at the hornets nest.

  8. #8
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    Default

    There was a show on the discovery channel last night all about the C6. It was entitled "Corvette - rebuilding an icon". I think that was the name atleast. Anyways, they didn't really mention anything about the cross drilled rotors to my recollection, but I do remember them saying something like "These are the most powerful brakes every offered on a corvette, and because of that they get very hot and need cooling". This was in reguards to the cooling ducts though, they were having a problem with the larger cooling ducts pushing the car up at high speeds, the smaller ducts they designed to remidy this resulted in brake fade, and they dismissed those. They never did say how they fixed the problem, or what comprimses were made.
    Ralph
    '68 Camaro l Project Fantom l Street Fighter
    '02 Corvette Z06 l Quicksilver Metallic l Black Int.
    '01 Camaro SS l Black l M6 l Build No. 171 l SOLD!
    '96 Tahoe Sport l 2 Door l Black l Z71 l SOLD!

    "I bleed, sir, but not killed"

  9. #9
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    Default

    Here's an interesting linkabout C6 brakes. Notice that cross drilling isn't mentioned as a performance enhancer. Otherwise, I'm staying out of this mess.

    EDIT- This is the CAC referenced in the link above.
    Brian D
    Snotty Bimmer driver.

  10. #10
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    Default Fine , I will. stir time...

    I've got my ore ready...no stirring spoon here:
    If drilled rotors are so bad the why have the motor cycle crowd use them still? Race ones too? Since what early 70's?
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  11. #11
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    Default

    I could be way off base and i'm by no means an expert but i think the motorcylce crowd can get away with it because they dont have 2000lbs+ of vehicle to stop. Those bikes weight in around 800lbs (sport bike) with a rider on it and the big cruisers still would come in less than a small car.

    William

  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrQuick
    I've got my ore ready...no stirring spoon here:
    If drilled rotors are so bad the why have the motor cycle crowd use them still? Race ones too? Since what early 70's?
    Hi Vince. They use solid(non vented) rotors too.....
    What works well for one is not the best for the other.
    Brian D
    Snotty Bimmer driver.

  13. #13
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    Default wait,

    you guys tryin to tell me bikes big are small stop differently than cars and brakes theories don't apply to bikes? Even if they don't weigh as much as cars the weight to power ratios to rotor size are almost equal.Makes you go, huuuummmm?
    MrQuick ΜΟΛ'ΩΝ ΛΑΒ'Ε

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  14. #14
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    Default

    The rotors for cars are usually cast. It appears to me that bike rotors are machined from steel blanks, or have I been fooled by their shiny appearance?
    Ken
    If there is a hard way to do something, I'll find it!
    My other car is a Vega.

  15. #15

    Default

    the force required to accell/decell an object rises exponentialy with speed and/or weight,not linearaly.it takes far more than twice the force to affect a mass that is twice as heavy.a motorcycle's rotors are much more exposed to cooling airflow.back in the day we would drag the front brake a bit towards the end of long straights to build heat before the brake zone.drilled rotors on motorcycles may be more for unsprung mass reduction.unsprung weight is most important as it compares to sprung weight.a couple ounces is a bigger percentage of the total on a lighter vehicle.as far a the c6 it probably has ac and leather seats-and that isn't to make it faster either.

  16. #16
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    Default

    my question has always been, and let me say NO ONE has ever given any kind of answer to this question besides "they do it because it looks cool" is if the crossdrilled rotors DO NOT work, Not if they crack or not, but if they do not work then why do the top of the line cars use them, as in Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari, Corvette, and others use them, I doubt people buying SL55's, or plain old S500's(can barely even see the rotors) care if their rotors have holes in them or not. Same with Porsche. Regardless if they crack or not do they brake better? Also some of these companies were putting these rotors on their cars Before people thought they looked cool. I have seen that Baer supposedly did some kind of backyard test and said that the holes didn't do anything, but i don't think their test was a very good reproduction of brakes on a car. Also i don't think Baer brakes a company that doesn't really produce anything but "kits" is a reliable source. I think testing by companies like Porshce/Ferrari who compete in many performance/races would have better ways of testing and research. Now I am by far no means some kind of engineering genious, but it sounds like they could be a good thing, even if they are cast/drilled they are still doing the same thing, and the big question is if they help braking. I don't know the answer, I like the way they look so thats good enough for me.

  17. #17
    dennis68 Guest

    Default

    Bottom line, even if the drilled holes were cast and didn't crack, the cooling effect would not balance the loss of friction coefficient. What is the point in installing "big brakes" if you are going to take 25% of the friction away with holes or slots or whatever. Might as well just leave the stock 11" brakes in place.

  18. #18
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    Default You've got to do something though

    There has to be some sort of slot or hole to vent the gasses away from the rotor and pad to enhance braking. If you don't allow these gasses to escape they are going to cause a loss in contact between the rotor and pad surface anyway so you are losing your braking power there too. The best trade off is what we have to find. Here this is taken directly from Baer and Wilwood's FAQ section and should help stir it even more.

    Q: Why are some rotors drilled or slotted?
    A: Rotors are drilled to reduce rotating weight, an issue near and dear to racers searching for ways to minimize unsprung weight. Drilling diminishes a rotor's durability and cooling capacity.

    Slots or grooves in rotor faces are partly a carryover from the days of asbestos pads. Asbestos and other organic pads were prone to "glazing" and the slots tended to help "scrape or de-glaze" them. Drilling and slotting rotors has become popular in street applications for their pure aesthetic value. Wilwood has a large selection of drilled and slotted rotors for a wide range of applications.


    And here is what Baer Brakes has to say...
    What are the benefits to Crossdrilling, Slotting, and Zinc-Washing my rotors?
    In years past, crossdrilling and/or Slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads began to break down at extreme temperatures. This condition is often referred to as “green pad fade” or “outgassing”. When it does occur, the driver still has a good firm brake pedal, but simply little or no friction. Since this normally happens only at temperatures witnessed in racing, this can be very exciting!


    However, with today’s race pad technology, ‘outgassing’ is no longer much of a concern. When shopping for races pads, or even ultra-high performance road pads, look for the phrases, “dynamic surface treatment”, “race ready”, and/or, “pre-burnished”. When these or similar statements are made by the pad manufacturer, the pad in question will likely have little or no problem with ‘outgassing’. Ironically more pedestrian pads used on most streetcars will still exhibit ‘outgassing’, but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack.

    Although crossdrilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind today’s often wide-open wheel designs.

    Crossdrilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential “stress risers” from which cracks can occur. Baer’s rotors are cast with crossdrilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings.


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  19. #19
    dennis68 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevyman73
    There has to be some sort of slot or hole to vent the gasses away from the rotor and pad to enhance braking. If you don't allow these gasses to escape they are going to cause a loss in contact between the rotor and pad surface anyway so you are losing your braking power there too.

    In the old days (am I dating myself) drilled rotors rotors were used for outgasing. Todays brake friction components are much different than they were in days past. It is no longer nesessary for the rotor to provide a method for pad venting. The brake pads themselves provide that releif in most cases if the pad even has any build up to begin with. Todays materials like ceramic for one do not have the outgassing problems associated with high perfromance brakes.

    If anyone has any tech to contrdict my statements I'm all ears, please cite sources (I do this for a living and "my buddies says" isn't going to cut it).

    Baer and Wilwood have it right, another old racer technique (that isn't used anymore) turned into "bling" for the bolt on crowd.

  20. #20
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dennis68
    Baer and Wilwood have it right, another old racer technique (that isn't used anymore) turned into "bling" for the bolt on crowd.
    DING DING DING We have a winner!!!
    Brian D
    Snotty Bimmer driver.

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