Martz, Fatman, CA Chassisworks... TOO MANY CHOICES!

[TBART70]

rick how is the martz chassis holding up, bought the martz front chassis and added alot of bracing to it, and will probably lower the engine mounts, won't be in the car or driving it for at least two years hope it is all worth it in the end. installed art morrison tri-4bar last year.

[Steve N 69 69 69]

crap, I wish I weighed my CW frame before I installed it. anyone have one loose they can weigh?? just curious.

[Steve1968LS2]

#1 Wayne Due/21st Century Streetmachine
#2 Chris Alston
#3 modified stock
#4 Martz
#5 Heits

I fixed your list ;)

I have been very impressed with what I have learned about 21st Century's subframe. It has the ability to be adjusted for instant center and the design looks very good.

So now there are even more choices

Also, when you say Wayne Due do you mean the C5, C4 or Morrison subframe?

To be honest I am a huge fan of modified stock subframes..

[Ummgawa]

I would move the modified stock (at least with DSE a-arms, bushings, coil over conversion, and steering box) up to the top with WD as far as handling goes.

Jody

Thanks Jody...

[69 Red 540]

is it better to use dse uppers with stock lowers or dse lowers and uppers???? i see a lot of guys sayin dse uppers and stock lowers so i was wondering

I'm curious about this as well.

Bryan

[yody]

Thanks Jody...

whats up with the swaybar mount on that thing?

[TitoJones]

whats up with the swaybar mount on that thing?

That is the all new BRP instant debris catcher. The damn sway bar hangs below the center crossmember, and the 'mounts' they sell to weld on under the frame rails are so weak, that the ones I had were bent before we even unpacked them from the box.

Tyler

[yody]

That is the all new BRP instant debris catcher. The damn sway bar hangs below the center crossmember, and the 'mounts' they sell to weld on under the frame rails are so weak, that the ones I had were bent before we even unpacked them from the box.

Tyler

LOL yeah it looked like it to me also, but you know I'm boring now, so...........

[Damn True]

What's with the relief cut for the steering shaft? Not much left of the crossmember eh?

[ProdigyCustoms]

[QUOTE=TBART70]why is everybody so down on the martz chassis. QUOTE]

I have instaled Chris Alston, Wayne Due, martz and modified stockers. The Martz chassis is very lightweight 2 X 3 tubing, and flexs quite a bit. It also used Mustang 2 suspension. Great for a drag car but............. The Alston is a well built strong and lightweight piece, but maybe better suited for street / race / pro street straight liners. I have one here for my street racer, I want to lose the weight off the nose and improve the manual steering. Wayne's stuff is a work of art, strong and still light for what it is. I would like to try a 21st century, maybe next project.

[rob07002]

Frank How can the Martz frame be more flexible then the CW frame with the added bracing shown on the Road Race and Wide Track subs on the site. I would think just the opp. Does the CW or Martz flex more then a stock sub?

http://www.martzchassis.net/page1.htm

[Ummgawa]

I moved the sway bar to the front and welded a piece over the cut out for the rack and replaced the upper control arms with Global Wests. The DSE coil over conversion was a pain to install but works well.I gusseted alll the corners so flex is minimal on "that Thing" The rear mount WAS for an LS motor. My twin turbo set up caused me to change my direction on motor choices.

Yody please post pix of your suspension, maybe we can all get some pointers from your build.

Tito your car is wicked, will it be at SEMA?

[Tennessee Auto]

Thanks Jody...

I hate to bring up a old thread, whos subframe is this? I know its been about a year or so since it uses our old 93-02 sway bar mounts on the frame. I would like to see more pics of it with the engine mounted, if anyone has them.

Thanks Scott

[73-TYPE-LT-LS1]

Umm, whats up with the steering shaft to power rack. It looks like it has a 30* or more angle. Can't feel right turning or be good on the input shaft for the rack..

Hope it's just a funny picture angle.

[clinthart]

I agree with Jody. I am glad someone else thinks that. Do not discount a modified stock frame. The only advantage, other than they they look damn cool, that some aftermarket frames have over a mod stock is the ability to get wider tires in the front. That is a big plus though.

I am using the GW uppers and stock lowers. Also, the DSE coilover conversion put into the Gulstrand location, not DSE's and Wilwood 6 piston brakes. I just ordered the Koni's from DSE as well. With all that I have around 3200 and it measured a damn good camber cruve during moc-up. Once it is put back together, I hope by SEMA, I will get the rest of the front susp geometry measurements and see what it looks like at ride height.

I guess the moral is do not discount a well updated stock sub.
Brian

There is another benefit to not using the stock subframe... and that is typically weight. I got the Martz chassis, and I shaved about 200lbs off the nose of the car. Now, I am not recommending the Martz chassis because it is not DOT approved, and Gary is not a nice person to work with. I made the mistake of getting this, and I am not paying the price of it. I would put Fatman chassis up there with WD too. That chassis is DOT approved, it is lighter than stock, comes with all the modern stuff, and costs about $4000 for the turn key unit. I have about $4100 in my Martz front end. That includes everything you need to drive with. The ChassisWorks cost more. The quote in the mag is simply the chassis. Call them and they will tell you a turn-key unit costs over $4500 + shipping.

The problem with modifying your stock chassis is you really can't put in all the stuff these after market chassis have on them for the same price. Rack and pinion, tubular control arms, coil overs, disk brakes, etc. $1000 for the rack conversion, $600 a piece for tubular control arms, DSE kit is I don't know how much, and then the coil over shocks... ouch.

But make Martz your very last option. You don't want to have to deal with him.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Frank How can the Martz frame be more flexible then the CW frame with the added bracing shown on the Road Race and Wide Track subs on the site. I would think just the opp. Does the CW or Martz flex more then a stock sub?

http://www.martzchassis.net/page1.htm

Sorry Rob, have not been following this post. The CW frame is pretty strong using a cleaverly design fabricated rail design that gives it girth where it needs it. The Martz is just 2 X 3 and flexs badly at the S in the frame. We put stands under the front of the subframe and the rear where the 3 member would be. And bounced on the door jams, it was down right frightening how bad it flexed! And keep in mind this car is conceted and tied to the rockers every 12". Martz suggested we us the front support bars, but I could not get a good answer when I asked would that not put all the stress on the door pins and latch in a convertible? Think about it, the front of the support wiggles, where does it transfer to? The core support, which transfers to? The door hinges and latch on ragtops.

So we added some pie cuts to try and stiffen that weak area, I believe it helped some, but I won't use it again.

[rob07002]

Sorry Rob, have not been following this post. The CW frame is pretty strong using a cleaverly design fabricated rail design that gives it girth where it needs it. The Martz is just 2 X 3 and flexs badly at the S in the frame. We put stands under the front of the subframe and the rear where the 3 member would be. And bounced on the door jams, it was down right frightening how bad it flexed! And keep in mind this car is conceted and tied to the rockers every 12". Martz suggested we us the front support bars, but I could not get a good answer when I asked would that not put all the stress on the door pins and latch in a convertible? Think about it, the front of the support wiggles, where does it transfer to? The core support, which transfers to? The door hinges and latch on ragtops.

So we added some pie cuts to try and stiffen that weak area, I believe it helped some, but I won't use it again.

Thanks for getting back to on this. I'm really torn by which sub to get when I'm ready. By looking at the Martz on the sites one would thinks its plenty stiff, but experience speaks for itself.... With cost being an issue, I'll probably end up with the alston piece....

[ProdigyCustoms]

Thanks for getting back to on this. I'm really torn by which sub to get when I'm ready. By looking at the Martz on the sites one would thinks its plenty stiff, but experience speaks for itself.... With cost being an issue, I'll probably end up with the alston piece....

I think the Alston is a nice unit, but I would sure rather see you get creative and find some used Corvette stuff and do a Wayne Due. If not, no one will look down on you the the CW frame.

[MarkM66]

I hate to bring up a old thread, whos subframe is this? I know its been about a year or so since it uses our old 93-02 sway bar mounts on the frame. I would like to see more pics of it with the engine mounted, if anyone has them.

Thanks Scott

Looks like a stock subframe with a rack conversion. I can't think of the place that offers this rack conversion though. I think it's like BRP Hotrods or something.

[Mean 69]

If a frame is not good enough to handle bending moments like Frank described, it will be downright diabolical in terms of handling torsional (twist) forces. I still get frustrated when folks think that the aftermarket frames are so much stronger than the factory frames, it would be great to see a real world test on both types, but the big claims just don't add up. Further, the weight issue with the allegation that the aftermarket stuff is so much lighter while at the same time being oodles stronger, the physics just doesn't allow that to happen. They do look nicer, but from a value standpoint, in terms of strength/weight/performance to $$$ ratio, well, we all have our own opinions I guess.

Not trying to start anything,
M