67 Camaro - Beginning build.

[nando2986]

Hi All,

I searched the forum some and didn't quite find what I was looking for but if this is a repeated thread I apologize.. My questions in a nutshell is for the First Gen Camaro guys.. what's the best must have Body/Suspension mods/ parts for our cars?

I know people are going to ask "what are you going to use the car for" the car will be a driver, occasionally a show, and maybe a track day once a year or so. It is a Sub frame - Off restoration and im using original Sub frame. Already planning on doing Power / disk brakes, mini-tub, aftermarket control arms, coil over suspension in the rear. I don't need top off the line everything.. but don't mind investing in parts that really make a solid impact on the cars drivability.

What are some things you didn't do and maybe wish you had?

Thanks in advance.



Fernando

[TheBandit]

My car and use are very similar to yours. For me the biggest improvements to how the car drives are (1) fuel injection - I went from a carbed small block to an LS engine and I love having a consistent tune that starts and runs great regardless of the weather or how warm the engine is. This makes the car much more driveable for me (2) springs, shocks, and sway bars made it feel like a completely different car - much more stable and (3) tires and therefore wheels - I went from 15" wheels with 60 series way-outdated rubber to modern 18" diameter 40 series performance tires (michelin pilot super sports in my case) and it made a big difference. I did also get improvement from upper tubular arms to get more caster and the Guldstrand mod.

One thing I definitely recommend is keeping your car driveable and doing upgrades in increments so you can continue to drive it and learn how the incremental changes affect things. I hate having my car down for long periods to do big projects. It's easy to let things snowball to the point that your car is on stands for YEARS because you've taken everything on all at once. For some projects this is a necessary evil, but most of the time not.

Things I've regretted: going too far and compromising the driveability of my vehicles. For example, I had a rock crawler that I went too extreme with making the suspension flexible. It worked great in the rocks, but it was scary on the street - I hated driving it to get to the locations where I used to wheel, so it got used less and less even though it was more capable offroad. It also made the moderate trails I used to love boring. For my Nova this translated to things like not getting overly stiff on the suspension, lowering it to the point of having to be too careful with driveways and dips in the road, going big with the cam, squeezing the absolute widest tires in but having occasional rub, or going with the stickiest max performance but low wear life and high noise tire.

[nando2986]

My car and use are very similar to yours. For me the biggest improvements to how the car drives are (1) fuel injection - I went from a carbed small block to an LS engine and I love having a consistent tune that starts and runs great regardless of the weather or how warm the engine is. This makes the car much more driveable for me (2) springs, shocks, and sway bars made it feel like a completely different car - much more stable and (3) tires and therefore wheels - I went from 15" wheels with 60 series way-outdated rubber to modern 18" diameter 40 series performance tires (michelin pilot super sports in my case) and it made a big difference. I did also get improvement from upper tubular arms to get more caster and the Guldstrand mod.

One thing I definitely recommend is keeping your car driveable and doing upgrades in increments so you can continue to drive it and learn how the incremental changes affect things. I hate having my car down for long periods to do big projects. It's easy to let things snowball to the point that your car is on stands for YEARS because you've taken everything on all at once. For some projects this is a necessary evil, but most of the time not.

Things I've regretted: going too far and compromising the driveability of my vehicles. For example, I had a rock crawler that I went too extreme with making the suspension flexible. It worked great in the rocks, but it was scary on the street - I hated driving it to get to the locations where I used to wheel, so it got used less and less even though it was more capable offroad. It also made the moderate trails I used to love boring. For my Nova this translated to things like not getting overly stiff on the suspension, lowering it to the point of having to be too careful with driveways and dips in the road, going big with the cam, squeezing the absolute widest tires in but having occasional rub, or going with the stickiest max performance but low wear life and high noise tire.

Thanks man for the reply and couldn't agree more on fuel injection. I have a LS3 out of a C6 that im going to use in it. Car was originally a Auto car (Shifter on the column) but I've decided long ago im going to do the extra work and throw in a manual. Hopefully 6 speed. Do you have coil overs upfront?

[TheBandit]

I have AFCO 600lb/in springs with spring adjusters. They are the same rate and I adjusted them to the same overall length as the Hotchkis 2" drop coils - I think it worked out to be a little cheaper than buying Hotchkis springs. I was worried I might want to adjust height, but I'm pretty happy with where it sits so the Hotchkis springs would have also been fine. Coil overs would be an improvement but for your and my use (mostly cruising), I think good standard divorced springs and shocks are good and you can put the saved time & money elsewhere. My thinking there is that getting crazy with the stock subframe/suspension is a slippery slope of wasted $ that could have been used on a full replacement aftermarket suspension; the bare minimums are springs, shocks, and swaybar. If you do autocross, aftermarket upper arms that allow more caster. Later I plan to do a 'vette brake conversion and a faster & heavier steering box. Just those considered are already a lot of money even used, so beyond that I feel like any more money would have been better spent on a revised geometry setup from TCI, Speedtech, Detroit Speed, Art Morrison, etc.

This is just my personal opinion. I still have very limited experience autocrossing the car and no road course experience. I feel I really got my money's worth so far on the upgrades I have done. FWIW my rear is Hotchkis 1.5" drop leafs, Helwig sway bar, and KYB shocks (yeah I do want to replace those!). Would be nice to do coilovers and minitub out back; I just didn't have the budget for everything involved and I'm quite sure the car will serve my needs and still be a ton of fun with leafs.

[Rod]

. what's the best must have Body/Suspension mods/ parts for our cars?

I don't need top off the line everything.. but don't mind investing in parts that really make a solid impact on the cars drivability.

1) to start I would decide on rim/wheel design and sizing, an 18" rim has the most available competitive sizes and compounds, so if you go 18 how wide do you want? a 10 wide front rim will dictate the use of a tru-turn kit on that stock frame to fit a 275 front tire, and is a 275 ok for the rear also? if so then cool, if not then you have to mini tub it

2) now you can choose brakes and the supporting system to fit in the rims, (master? Hydro boost?, vacuum boost?, manual?, proportioning valve?, Roll control?, ect.)

3) what third member is in the car? will it stay? what upgrades are needed for what you choose (posi?, floater? drive shaft-steel-aluminum carbon?)

4) what ever you choose for the front control arms is the company that should also supply the rear suspension, most systems are designed to complement each other with matching roll centers and anti-squat and anti dive angles, if you mix brands you will need to understand what has to be done for the cars geometry to be right (bushings? subframe bushings?, subframe connectors?, roll cage?)

4) power plant and transmission? (auto or stick, LS, SBC, carb, efi)

hope that gets you started

[nando2986]

Thanks Rod for the reply. Im thinking wheel wise 18/19 combo is what I want. I want 11 or 12 out back so mini-tub is definitely for me. Whats the widest we can go upfront without having to make major adjustments or losing a ton of steering? I thought it was be 9 inch rims max. Can car handle 10 in the front?

[nando2986]

Bandit - Agree! I think we are on the same page, all about spending the money where it makes sense. Im not trying to go down the everlong rabbit hole of spending just to spend.

[Rod]

Im thinking wheel wise 18/19 combo is what I want.

make sure you can get the tires you want for those sizes....... most tires in the 19" range are less competitive for autocross and track... just a suggestion

[pittpens24]

I have 9.5 width rims up front and a 275 tire with a Rack and Pinion system. The tires did hit the frame when turned fully to the left and right so I did have to put the c-clip spacers in limiting the turning radius. Never having a R&P before, I had to put about 4 clips on each side to get it correct. The funny thing is 3 clips on either side did nothing at all except take up excessive space even without the tires on. One thing I would highly recommend is borrowing or buying and selling a Wheel-fit tool. This will guarantee the tires and wheels you want will fit on your car. Good luck

[TheJDMan]

I would like to emphasize what Rod said, stick with one company for your entire front and rear suspension. Mixing and matching different brands of suspension parts is the quickest way to end up with a suspension that does not work well. There are only a handful of people who have experience working with PT style suspensions and we are very lucky to have most of them here on PT. Rod is one of our suspension experts and I know he will answer any questions you might have.

[nando2986]

Im looking at a set of wheels that I can buy off a guy locally but they are 19x10 up front which is wider than I wanted upfront. Is this even doable on a 67 with stock sub frame? if so what all goes into it?

Thanks!

[xavier296]

I have done almost everything I wanted to do to my 68 Camaro, and am right now swapping the perfectly good auto for a manual just because I always wanted it to be a manual.

My biggest advice: Get the wheel measuring tool!!! I bought a set of rims and tires based on forum recommendations, and on my car, they did not work. I ended up having to use the fronts on the rear and get smaller fronts. Expensive mistake. The tool would have saved me big time.

[nando2986]

Solid advice. Thanks man

I have done almost everything I wanted to do to my 68 Camaro, and am right now swapping the perfectly good auto for a manual just because I always wanted it to be a manual.

My biggest advice: Get the wheel measuring tool!!! I bought a set of rims and tires based on forum recommendations, and on my car, they did not work. I ended up having to use the fronts on the rear and get smaller fronts. Expensive mistake. The tool would have saved me big time.