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    1. #1
      Join Date
      Jun 2008
      Location
      Just Outside The Motor City
      Posts
      33
      Country Flag: United States

      1968 Firebird - So whats it worth?

      Hello all,

      With all my car projects, I've learned its never a good idea to add up all the receipts at the end of a build, but I do like to know what kind of value I have in my cars.
      So, I'm posting a summary of my '68 Firebird project. The goal of the project was to improve power, driveability and handling and keep an original vibe.
      Since its been 'done" (they're never done) I've put about 130 shakedown miles on it. I've been tweaking and adjusting things, chasing rattles, swapping out stuff that I didn't like, etc.
      Below is a lengthy list of what went into this car. I'm sure I've missed or forgotten something but I think there is enough info there for an opinion with respect to market value.

      Restored/rebuilt in “Restomod” theme. Updated suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, 18” wheels with high performance modern tires and overdrive transmission.
      Complete rotisserie restoration professionally done by Wings Auto Art in Ionia Michigan. http://www.wingsautoart.com
      Completely disassembled to bare shell and media blasted to bare steel. No fastener or component was untouched. Correct clips, bolts, plating, coatings used throughout where possible.

      Originally a California car. Built in May of ’68 at Van Nuys California Assembly Plant. Sold to first owner in California. Not an original “400” option car. “400” hood, grilles, bumper fillers, lower valance air dam and emblems added.
      Original options. Verified through Pontiac Historical Services:
      350 2bbl V8
      Automatic Transmission (2 speed)
      HD Air Cleaner
      Cameo Ivory (white)
      Deluxe package. Includes: Deluxe interior, wheel opening moldings, rocker moldings, full wheel covers, white stripe tires, courtesy lamps – floor, glove box, ash tray.
      Power Steering
      Power brakes
      Bucket Seats
      Floor Shift
      Console
      AM Radio
      Remote Control Drivers Side Mirror
      Interior trim code 281 “Saddle Tan Leather”. Leather seating surfaces. Saddle/Tan interior color only used for this option. A mid model year introduction, option 281 is considered very rare according to Jim Mattison of Pontiac Historical Society. Perhaps less than 50 built with this option (estimated) Actual production quantity unknown.

      Restoration/Modification
      “400” option added. Done correctly with specific 400 parts – hood, grilles, filler panels between front bumper support and radiator support. Front air dam valance filler panel. Pontiac crest on front bumper, ‘400’ emblem on deck lid.
      Cameo Ivory white painted as correct original color.

      Body
      Body and Paint performed by Wings Auto Art in Ionia Michigan.
      Stripped to bare body shell and media blasted inside and out.
      Due to crash damage and previous owner modifications, quarter panels, tail panel, deck lid, filler between back lite and deck lid replaced.
      3 floor pan sections replaced as they had pinholes due to rust forming from inside out.
      Rear shelf replaced due to cut outs for speakers by previous owner. Trunk floor original and in perfect condition.
      All factory spot welds reproduced. Cannot tell panels have been replaced.
      New reproduction fenders, inner fenders, radiator support.
      Hood, cowl panel, front valance and extensions are original Pontiac parts.
      Reproduction Hood Tach added.

      All paint products are PPG. Internal metal was sealed with epoxy primer before quarters were hung. Correct overspray done on floor pans and under hood.
      Original bumpers re-chromed.
      Original trim on car which was re-usable, was polished by Patmia in Fraser Mi. NOS front wheel well openings, rear wheel well moldings and rocker moldings are repro.
      All new glass (tinted) supplied by Pilkington with correct date codes.
      All new window felts and rubber seals throughout.
      Correct fasteners with correct plating used throughout.
      New door handles and emblems supplied by Trim Parts.

      Interior
      Due to the rarity of the interior trim option, no interior parts are reproduced in the correct color or material. As such many parts were sourced and made specifically for this car.
      Seat covers reproduced by SMS Auto Fabrics. Leather seating surfaces made from custom ordered hide. Seat side material was made from NOS vinyl from SMS. NOS vinyl was also used to re-cover the quarter trim panels.
      Seat covers installed by Shelby Trim.
      Seat frames media blasted, springs replaced as necessary and painted bare steel.
      Seat tracks cleaned and lubed.
      Headliner, sun visors and sail panel trim reproduced using NOS material by SMS Auto Fabrics.
      Deluxe door trim panels remolded and color matched.
      Dash pad remolded and color matched by Just Dashes.
      Correct color carpet made by Auto Custom Carpet as well as the door trim carpet inserts.
      Correct reproduction console burl wood/trim and installed.
      Steering wheel re-cast by Quality Restorations. Steering wheel re-cast in correct color as was the horn buttons. Comes with lifetime guarantee against cracks.
      Original seat belts restored by Python Restoration, using correct material and date code tags. New seat belt anchor bolts supplied by AMK fasteners.
      Lizard skin sound deadening and heat reduction system sprayed on floor pans and trunk floor.
      Correct interior trim fasteners supplied by AMK.
      Reproduction instrument cluster with gauges added.
      Reproduction AM/FM Stereo radio from Antique Automobile Radio Inc. Stock appearing but offers modern technology.

      Engine
      455 Pontiac built by Butler Racing. Inspected, dyno’d and tuned by known Pontiac expert, Dan Jensen.
      1971 Pontiac 455 block. Bored .030
      Forged TRW pistons
      Forged Eagle crankshaft
      Forged Eagle connecting rods.
      ARP Rod Bolts
      Balanced
      Heads: 1971 400 4bbl Casting # 96. Ported by Butler. Heat risers filled with molten aluminum.
      Comp Cams springs and roller rockers.
      Comp Cams Hydraulic Roller Cam.
      Carburetor – 1978 Pontiac Quadrajet built by Cliff Ruggles. Converted to electric choke due to the heat crossover ports in the cylinder heads being filled.
      Cast Pontiac intake manifold
      1969 Pontiac Dual Snorkle Air Cleaner.
      Ignition. Breaker point distributor converted to electronic ignition using Crane conversion kit. Distributor re-curved by Dan Jensen.
      Crane ignition coil.
      Reproduction Packard date coded plug wires.
      BOP products harmonic balancer – street version.
      Canton Road Race Oil Pan. Features baffles and trap doors to prevent oil starvation during hard braking and cornering.
      Ram Air Restorations long branch exhaust manifolds. 2 ˝ outlet. Coated in high temp cast iron gray.
      Ram Air Restoration billet aluminum reproduction accessory drive pulleys in semi-gloss black.
      Robb Mc gear reduction starter.

      Exhaust
      Ram Air Restorations reproduction “long branch” ram air exhaust manifolds. 2 ˝ outlet. Ceramic coated in cast iron gray.
      Full 2 ˝ aluminized system with tail pipes. Made to order by Waldron’s Antique Exhaust. Uses high flow cross flow muffler and resonators. Exhaust note low has low rumble at idle without being annoyingly loud at speed.
      Head pipes coated with high temp coating by QC Coatings.
      Stock exhaust hangers used where possible.

      Cooling System
      Griffin aluminum radiator.
      Stock fan shroud.
      Water pump with cast iron impeller. Impeller to divider plate clearance adjusted for proper operation.
      New fan clutch.

      Fuel System
      Reproduction fuel tank. Original markings stenciled on.
      New fuel sender.
      Reproduction fuel lines from Inline Tube.
      Stock style fuel pump.
      Correct pump to carburetor line supplied by Inline Tube.

      Chassis
      Rust free subframe checked for straightness on frame machine. All dimensions corrected to exact specs.
      Sub frame media blasted and powder coated in semi-gloss black. Skid plate with tie down hooks welded to center bottom of subframe. Makes excellent floor jack point and tie down points for trailering.
      Detroit speed aluminum subframe mounts – stock height. (Stock rubber bushings used on radiator support)

      Transmission
      2004r overdrive transmission. BR code from 1987 Buick Grand National. Best 2004r to start with.
      Rebuilt and upgraded by Jakes Transmission.
      Grand National lock up torque converter retained. Converter opened, cleaned and inspected.
      Bowler Transmission torque converter lock up control/delay.
      Aftermarket aluminum transmission pan. Stock capacity, does not hang down.
      TCI max shift transmission fluid used.
      New transmission cooler lines supplied by Inline Tube.
      Driveshaft made by Dynotech. New yoke and uprated u-joints. Painted to replicate bare steel as original.

      Front Suspension
      Detroit Speed upper and lower control arms.
      Detroit Speed Camber Shims
      Detroit Speed Springs
      AFX forged aluminum spindles with Corvette hubs.
      Detroit Speed sway bar
      Bilstien Shocks
      Steering Gear Box – 1979 Trans Am WS6 – Rebuilt
      Power Steering Pump rebuilt and calibrated by Lee Power Steering
      ’69 Trans Am power steering cooler
      Hotckis Suspension tie rod adjuster sleeves
      MOOG tie rods and center link.

      Rear Suspension
      Detroit Speed leaf springs
      Detroit Speed Tow Hooks – bolt on bottom of spring plate.
      Longer 2nd Gen F car U-Bolts used to compensate for tow hook thickness. Excellent tie down point for trailering.
      Bilstien Shocks
      All new bushings and correct fasteners.

      Brakes
      Dual diaphragm booster same as 1979 WS6 Trans Am 4 wheel disc brake unit.
      A/C Delco aluminum master cylinder with plastic reservoir.
      Front - C5 Corvette Calipers and Rotors. Calipers attached to spindles with stock GM fasteners.
      AC Delco brake pads.
      Caliper hoses supplied by Kore 3 – FlexKore braided.
      Rear - C5 Corvette rotors and calipers. Conversion kit supplied by Kore 3.
      AC Delco brake pads.
      Parking brake cables custom made by Inline Tube in correct materials with armor guard.
      Custom brake lines by Inline Tube.
      Flex line to calipers - Kore 3 FlexKore braided.
      Axles machined for Corvette rotors to slide onto flange.

      Rear Axle
      1969 Pontiac 8.2
      3.23 GM gears.
      Auburn posi unit.
      Gear and posi unit set up by DTS – Detroit Drive Train Services.
      New axle bearings.
      Housing media blasted and powder coated in correct colors.
      Tabs for disc brake hard line to caliper flex line welded on.
      12mm x 1.5 wheel studs installed to axles to match studs on Corvette front hubs.

      Wheels
      E-T wheels by Team III.
      LT-III Minilite style wheels patterned after those used on the Trans Am series cars in the late 60s.
      2-piece made to order.
      Short center caps.
      Front: 18 x 8
      Rear: 18 x 9

      Tires
      Michelin Pilot Super Sports
      Front: P235–40-18
      Rear: P255–35-18

      HVAC
      Vintage air added. A/C lines routed behind fender for a cleaner appearance.
      E-Z Clip fittings and hoses used.
      Detroit Speed heater core block off plate installed to firewall.



      Parts included.
      · Original Engine. Complete from air cleaner to oil pan.
      · Original Hood
      · Original Deck Lid.
      · Original Radiator
      · Original drum brakes, including front spindles.
      · Original transmission cross member. Powder coated semi-gloss black.
      · Original heater assembly.
      · Original Front Springs (powder coated in cast gray)
      · Original Rear Springs (rebuilt and powder coated in cast gray)
      · Correct Wheels. 14 x 6 with correct codes.
      · Correct Wheel Covers
      · Original Restored Power Brake Booster
      · Original Steering Gear Box
      · Original front control arms. Powder coated in semi-gloss black. New bushings installed.
      · Original Instrument Cluster – Non Gauges.
      · Original AM Radio. Restored and tested. Works great.
      · Original re-coned dash speaker.
      · New reproduction fasteners. – AMK etc.
      · Misc original parts.
      Attached Images Attached Images                            

    2. #2
      Join Date
      Nov 2008
      Location
      Lawrenceburg, TN
      Posts
      4,083
      Country Flag: United States
      nicely done frame off resto mod, I did many evaluations years ago when I worked for a shop in Northern California called Steves Camaros, you can go on the Hagaerty web site an run a base value, since the car started as a base 350 car with deluxe interior but in the resto-mod and Protouring world, our cars are in the concours price ranges, your car appears to be well done so I would agree with the 38K quote, the car would fetch a higher value with more protouring infusion, such as an overdrive transmission, a full coilover suspension(eliminating the leafs) a better third member, gauges, bolstered seats, ICE (In Car Entertainment)

      I would say a sold 40K

      Current Values from Hagerty
      #1 Concours
      $38,800

      Condition #1 vehicles are the best in the world. The visual image is of the best vehicle, in the right colors, driving onto the lawn at the finest concours. Perfectly clean, the vehicle has been groomed down to the tire treads. Painted and chromed surfaces are mirror-like. Dust and dirt are banned, and materials used are correct and superbly fitted. The one word description for #1 vehicles is "concours."

      #2 Excellent
      $27,600

      these vehicles could win a local or regional show. They can be former #1 vehicles that have been driven or have aged. Seasoned observers will have to look closely for flaws, but will be able to find some not seen by the general public. The paint, chrome, glass and finishes will all appear as excellent. No excessive smoke will be seen on startup, no unusual noises will emanate from the engine. The vehicle will drive as a new vehicle of its era would

      #3 Good
      $14,500

      fresh paint job or a new, correct interior where applicable. #3 vehicles drive and run well, but might have some incorrect parts. These vehicles are not used for daily transportation but are ready for a long tour without excuses, and the casual passerby will not find any visual flaws. "Good" is the one word description of a #3 vehicle.

      #4 Fair
      $7,400

      just my two cents, great looking car, I have a soft spot for Birds...but I never liked the motors, header swaps made my knuckles bleed

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Jun 2008
      Location
      Just Outside The Motor City
      Posts
      33
      Country Flag: United States
      Thanks Rod, I appreciate the input and compliments!
      It does have an overdrive trans (2004R) and gauges, albeit the optional stock gauges, which I added.
      However, I agree, it definitely needs seats with better side bolsters - given how well it handles now, I slide all over the stock seats!
      As for your suggestion of a better third member do you mean something like a 9 inch or 12 bolt in place of the Pontiac 8.2?
      Last edited by projectfolly; 02-18-2018 at 10:26 AM. Reason: sp

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Nov 2008
      Location
      Lawrenceburg, TN
      Posts
      4,083
      Country Flag: United States
      sorry I scanned over the original post and noted a 2 speed, and I didn't see the 200r4 in the long detail.....nice choice great first gear ratio, amazing how better leafs and front control arms and springs can change a car and throw you around the stock seats.....for third members ..yes... like a 12 bolt or 9 inch you can even up to B.O.P. 8.5 inch rear not as costly



      good luck on the sale






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