Ridetech bump steer

[Tweak]

With modern tires and stock suspension geometry the car was borderline dangerous with the amount of bump steer that was present. A dip in the road mid corner was terrifying. I have not taken bump steer measurements with the truturn setup but the improvement was drastic.

I never said that ridetech produced perfect bumpsteer geometry, There are too many variables built into these old rides for there to be a one size fits all solution that is perfect. His chart appears to show that ridetech geometry is terrible, I simply cannot however understand how it could be worse than factory unless the measurements or setup are incorrect. I dont think your analogy really applies to my statement. I disputed that the factory geometry has better bumpsteer than the truturn kit. Your analogy would imply that without measuring the factory geometry I would not be able to notice the bumpsteer. You can detect 1st gen bump steer from the passenger seat.

I think you missed my point
Yes the system is very good if you take the time to modify to match your setup
Maybe you got lucky and your set up is close to there set up when they engineered it
Look at what I’ve come up with, moved the pick up points of inner toe rods approx 3/8 and I have **** all bump steer
I would bet if you took your front springs out and did a true bump test, the results would be “ok” but also may shock
I reckon the bigger issue is Bret and ridetech offer nothing unless you poke the bear.
I get the vibe if they don’t agree they just want this story to fade away and die
You say your happy because it’s better, but I bet you purchased there kit on there claims of “almost eliminating bumpsteer” if it doesn’t then there claims are false
That should have poked the bear. Lol

I challenge everyone on here to do a true bump steer test on the tru turn front ends and post results

[Tweak]

The blocked that painted my car run Boyd z paint shop.
We know our ****

[David Pozzi]

First Gen Camaros vary in their geometry due to production tolerances. Stock Pitman arms and Idler arms have usually been replaced by now, so aftermarket parts are in use. Now look at how the cars are assembled. I have been able to vary bump steer by loosening the steering box and idler arm bolts, pushing up on them and tightening them. On a first gen Camaro this can make a difference in bump steer. The factory used two lengths of pitman arms, two lengths of idler arms, & three lengths of outer steering arms. Aftermarket idler arms are mid-length 5.5" and don't match the long 5.65" 67 idler or the short 5.25" 68/69 idler. There were two center links used, a thin and a thick version. They all have the potential to cause a variance in bump steer. About 15 years ago, Global West did a magazine bump steer test using various pitman and outer steering arm combinations and showed the differences.




The easiest place to make bump steer adjustments is washers on the outer tie rod end, but space is limited. Moving the tie rod end down will reduce toe out, which is usually the problem on a First Gen Camaro. Second gen Camaros toe in under bump. Moving the inner tie rod in or out will affect the measurements at the ends of suspension travel more than the middle. It changes the arc of the tie rod to better match the need. But moving the tie rod inward can cause contact with the oil pan, especially a big block, so its not going to work in every case.

While bump steer exists on a stock Camaro, it does not relate to a 2" taller spindle like ridetech makes. Making the spindle taller greatly increases bump steer, which is why Ride Tech came up with the Tru-Turn system. There is also a problem with the stock tie rod end being so low, and contacting wide rims, so moving the steering arm upward allows wider than 8" rims.

My tests were with a stock spindle, and also with a .5" taller upper ball joint which increased bump steer and caster at 3 degrees. Going 2" taller without addressing bump steer could put you over an inch toe out with 3 or 4 inches of travel. I can assure you Ride Tech made an honest effort with this system. However their results were for the subframe or subframes they tested, not your subframe, and not my subframe with whatever linkage we have. All Camaros are not the same, that's why on my web page I say people should do their own bump steer testing and adjustments & not rely on someone else's tests. I have driven the Ride Tech 48 hour Camaro and it steers great.

[Tweak]

Hi Dave
Yes I started with the outer tie rod and washers, negative and positive direction. It got better but not good enough. Once I started modifying the drag link it came good
I’ve always said I’m happy with the product, but maybe there claims are not the best
I totally get that there not all the same, we are talking about 1968 in my case
I’ve seen it many times before with inexperienced r&d engineers, that crack something good, and lock it in without looking at all the variable. Unfortunately ridetech and the Tru turn fit into this bucket

Cheers

[Tweak]

New drag link, custom to my car. Bottom holes to match OE drag link. Done away with ridetech slot. Didn’t mention before but that would have failed also.

[andrewb70]

Failed the inspection? What do the inspections entail?

Andrew

[Tweak]

Failed the inspection? What do the inspections entail?

Andrew

Where do I start. Anything OE is fine and requires no certification
Modified parts are subject to strict guidelines. All welding has to be done but certified welder. Tig welding preferred over mig . They were concerned with ridetech strong arms because they are mig welded. But have had them signed off. Modified seat belt mounts have to be 1/8” doubler plates fitted to body. It goes on and on. 300+ page document. All but crash test them. No half nuts so I have to change the supplied 4 link arm bolts because ridetech supply with half nuts and there isn’t enough thread for full nut. So new longer bolts and nuts. Car has to go through an intense brake test to prove its road safe. 10x 60 mph to nothing hard breaking to check for brake fade.
It’s full on

[TheJDMan]

It sounds like NZ applies OEM manufacturer safety standards to one off cars as well. I assume any new car sold in NZ must at some point meet or exceed the same standards. Meeting such standards is one thing if you are building hundreds of thousands of copies of the test car but is quite different if you are only building one car.

[Tweak]

It sounds like NZ applies OEM manufacturer safety standards to one off cars as well. I assume any new car sold in NZ must at some point meet or exceed the same standards. Meeting such standards is one thing if you are building hundreds of thousands of copies of the test car but is quite different if you are only building one car.

Hey Steve
There has been a few deaths with after market steering and suspension parts failing in hot rods. These cars had been certified also, so they are now looking at everything!
I dont have a problem with it, NZ roads are pretty tough on a vehicle, but make for great driving.

Cheers

[Tweak]

This is an image of a road up by my friends place. 50 miles of this is an awesome place to drive.
True test of all suspension components and car handling.

[Tweak]

Another thing that failed on the truturn was the outer tierod heim joints bind on the lower nut.
Easy fix, tapered spacers to allow heim joint full movement.

[dhutton]

Hope you don’t get any dust in those heims because they will bind and the noise they make is incredible and very loud. Not sure what ridetech was thinking there because it seems dust is inevitable....

I’ve installed ridetech suspensions on two cars and both experiences were disappointing. They come on strong with lots of promises when problems are reported but then they fall off the map blaming the owner and fifty year old cars rather than digging in.... Their attitude seems to be that they are winning on the track so their stuff must be great.

Don

[Tweak]

Hope you don’t get any dust in those heims because they will bind and the noise they make is incredible and very loud. Not sure what ridetech was thinking there because it seems dust is inevitable....

I’ve installed ridetech suspensions on two cars and both experiences were disappointing. They come on strong with lots of promises when problems are reported but then they fall off the map blaming the owner and fifty year old cars rather than digging in.... Their attitude seems to be that they are winning on the track so their stuff must be great.

Don

Hey Don
I would have to agree, ridetech lacks integrity from the top down..
Mate of mine is installing one of there 4-links in a 1st gen and had all the heim joints replaced with grease-able Johhny Joints.
For the very reason you mentioned.
This will be my first winter upgrade on my car and yes plan to replace front ones also. I thought It seemed a very odd decision from ridetech also.

[bret]

"...ridetech lacks integrity from the top down..."
"...Silence is ignorance..."
"...Bret and ridetech offer nothing unless you poke the bear..."

Nice.

I thought we were here to resolve problems and maybe learn something.

I have previously declined to respond to these comments because my intent was to find solutions to problems and to learn from and maybe even educate the rest of the hotrod world about suspension issues. I also recognize that frustrations have a way of becoming magnified through a keyboard 8000 miles away. These kind of comments offer no resolution to your problem, nor do they help anyone else learn anything. I have a thick skin when it comes to insults...if your intent is to poke the bear, understand that you're going to need a bigger stick and a sharper tongue. If, however, you want help with your problems, I will need that elusive caster number to attempt to explain why you are not seeing the bumpsteer number we are.

Don... If you have voiced problems of any kind in the past, I can assure you that we responded. Your reference to us blaming these old cars for your problems is nothing more than us relaying an unfortunate truth of hotrodding.
I will be within 30 miles of your town next week at the Goodguys show. I will be more than happy to address any issues past or present with your suspension systems. Please look me up at the display booth or at the Autocross. Or if you won't be there, send me a direct email and I'll come to your shop to take a look. [email protected]

The comments about heim joints is valid. Until now, they are the solution that sucked the least to allow free rotation of the suspension. That's why we did this: https://www.ridetech.com/products/r-joint/
Until a few years ago, there were some really good durable heim joints available. In the never ending quest for cost reductions, they have all seemed to have deteriorated in quality. As of Jan 1, 2018, all Ridetech 4 link products will include R-Joint components.

We will continue to participate in any discussion that seeks solutions and education.

[Tweak]

"...ridetech lacks integrity from the top down..."
"...Silence is ignorance..."
"...Bret and ridetech offer nothing unless you poke the bear..."

Nice.

I thought we were here to resolve problems and maybe learn something.

I have previously declined to respond to these comments because my intent was to find solutions to problems and to learn from and maybe even educate the rest of the hotrod world about suspension issues. I also recognize that frustrations have a way of becoming magnified through a keyboard 8000 miles away. These kind of comments offer no resolution to your problem, nor do they help anyone else learn anything. I have a thick skin when it comes to insults...if your intent is to poke the bear, understand that you're going to need a bigger stick and a sharper tongue. If, however, you want help with your problems, I will need that elusive caster number to attempt to explain why you are not seeing the bumpsteer number we are.

Don... If you have voiced problems of any kind in the past, I can assure you that we responded. Your reference to us blaming these old cars for your problems is nothing more than us relaying an unfortunate truth of hotrodding.
I will be within 30 miles of your town next week at the Goodguys show. I will be more than happy to address any issues past or present with your suspension systems. Please look me up at the display booth or at the Autocross. Or if you won't be there, send me a direct email and I'll come to your shop to take a look. [email protected]

The comments about heim joints is valid. Until now, they are the solution that sucked the least to allow free rotation of the suspension. That's why we did this: https://www.ridetech.com/products/r-joint/
Until a few years ago, there were some really good durable heim joints available. In the never ending quest for cost reductions, they have all seemed to have deteriorated in quality. As of Jan 1, 2018, all Ridetech 4 link products will include R-Joint components.

We will continue to participate in any discussion that seeks solutions and education.

Over head applause. Incredible words Bret
To be so gifted

[Gmc427]

hi damien,so are lvvta happy with your set up now? will your design drag link clear sbc/bbc/ls sumps?i think ridetechs data was more to show that other maufactors spindles etc would not work with there set up, negitive marketing?so you have ended up with trirods and spindles only and the joints on the rods are crap as well?regards george ,ps nice how ridetech disapeared for a while there

[130fe]

Damien, I am the average consumer with little to no knowledge of how to design suspension systems. It has been brought up that everyones cars are different and I get that. I have ridetech parts on my car and love them. I know there is R&D associated with these systems and in the end most of these aftermarket systems will improve your car compared to 50 year old suspension parts. Have you done any kind of R&D on your "fix"? You show pictures of a piece of metal with holes drilled in it, I assume there is more to it than that. I just find it odd that parts from a well known company don't meet the standards in your country's inspection but yours do? Maybe I missed the point?

[MAGONSTERZ68]

Bret,
are the heim end joint upgrade available at a discounted rate for your loyal customer base who bought, still own and enjoy ridetech products?

[dhutton]

Bret,
are the heim end joint upgrade available at a discounted rate for your loyal customer base who bought, still own and enjoy ridetech products?

There is no heim upgrade option for the Tru-Turn heim. The new R joints art too big. Maybe some day but I asked Brett and there is no firm date.

Don

[MAGONSTERZ68]

thx for the 411 Don