Holley Terminator Stealth Vs Sniper Vs Multiport

[OLDFLM]

With the terminator I/O you could control torque converter lock up. I'm not sure about the sniper. I've been running a 700 also and a b&m lockup control, an ez efi and a msd timing controller. With the terminator I can do one box instead of 3 separate boxes.

Sniper will NOT control TCC... looking forward to your install Mark! Please explain how the I/O controls TCC?

[Mark Antrim]

The tcc lock up is in the basic I/o. You use rpm and tps as your setting for controlling lock up. You can also use a speed sensor if you prefer. From the ecu to a relay will send 12 volts to the trans to lock up. I have a diagram that would explain the wiring better but hope you get the idea.

The way I found this is down load the software and play with it while I was waiting for my kit to come in. I knew that the dominator could control a 4l60e but didn't know it and the hp would do a 700.

[OLDFLM]

Good to know! I have dual fans and A/C and the Sniper only has 3 I/Os that I'm aware of for those functions... how many does the Terminator support and how much more was it than the Sniper?

I'm thinking about a grand more...?

[Mark Antrim]

The hp has 4 inputs and 4 outputs. Not sure on the price difference.

[jp455]

From what Ive seen its about 1200ish more.

Hadn't even thought of controlling extras like fans! Good to know. Mine is set up weird right now...its essentially on all the time, so...not good. Another thing this will resolve.
And since there would be 2 I/Os left the electric water pump could be controlled this way as well and have it come on once temp reaches 100 or so.

[OLDFLM]

Ballpark I figured $2k for the Sniper, $3k for the Terminator and $4-5k for multi-port... that's with the tank/pump/lines/fittings I'd outlined in an earlier post.

Another thing to consider with the Terminator vs the Sniper (if you need/want it) is that the Terminator has 8 injectors whereas the Sniper has 4.

The Sniper can support up to 650hp (per their tech line) and the Terminator up to 800hp... something to consider if you're planning power upgrades in the future.

[jp455]

I dont think for my engine that will be a problem...I havent dynoed it yet but probably only making about 450 or so. And no plans to upgrade it either. Next step up would be an LS swap.

[jp455]

Back to this topic for a quick question. Getting ready to install it, I’ll be using the he new Holley in tank fuel module. Will using the stock Firebird fuel hardline be ok?

[jp455]

Anyone? 3/8 or 5/16 fuel line ok for 450 fuel injected hp?

[OLDFLM]

-6AN or 3/8 is what Holley recommends.

[jp455]

Thanks for that! In a bit of confusion now though...I was told the Holley Tank Module has a 5/16 output. Maybe Ill just neck it up to the 3/8. But why would Holley make the pump 5/16 if the Sniper needs 3/8?

[jp455]

So not quite done with the tuning but almost. Even at 20% tuning its running very well! Ill post more pics and a video of how it runs when its 100%. Im getting a dyno session in too...just to see that its tuned 100% and the curiosity to see what the actual power figures are is too much! And yes, a new air filter base and filter are in the cards as well haha!

Heres a quick one on the way out to the dyno...

[Mr Nick]

What do you mean it's at 20% tuning?

Many people think the "Learn %" is a 0-100% range and it's done learning at 100%, that isn't true. It’s not a percent of completion . It’s just showing the % variance from base map it’s currently at.

[jp455]

Ohhhh...well now I feel stupid haha! Thanks for clarifying! So when is it satisfied it’s finished learning, when the O2 feedback is at an acceptable range throughout the fuel table?

In any case it’ll go on the dyno even if just to satisfy my curiosity!

[andrewb70]

The learn process compares actual AFR readings against the target AFR table and adjust the learn table accordingly. Occasionally it is a good idea to transfer the learn table adjustments to the base fuel table and smoothing the table.

This way the base table is adjusted closer to optimal and future adjustments are smaller.

Andrew

[jp455]

Hi Andrew...thanks for the info! I didnt get the software to do the laptop tuning (I assume its needed to do what you mentioned), but will do later on.

[Mr Nick]

The software is a free download. Once you transfer the learn table to the new base table a few times like Andrew mentioned, you can then reduce the amount of learn % allowed. This comes in handy in case a sensor goes bad, the Sniper won't over compensate by running dangerously lean or dump too much fuel. It will only vary 3-5% off the base table (whatever you set it to).

[jp455]

Cool! This system is looking much more handy than what I originally thought.

[stantaur]

Intrigued by the Sniper for a very simple setup I have (my fan's self controlled, no auto trans to worry about, etc.) except for the engine being an LT-1 with decent sized (253/259 @.050") solid roller, AFR 210s, 550 crank HP @ 6500. Here's a clip of the car driving through some twisties, and you can see the A/F ratio in the ash tray at various loads. It's not always where I want it to be air/fuel wise, but it's far better than it was out-of-the-box.

Current carb is 750 CFM Mighty Demon with 78F/88R jets, 3.5 PV, and some tweaks to the idle/cruise (0.024" Idle Feed Restrictors F/R, .084 Idle Air Bleeds, .093 High Speed Air Bleeds). Idle is 950 RPM with 12" vacuum & 14.5:1 A/F, cruise is similar 14.5:1 in most ranges, and WOT is 13:1 which I'd like to get down to 12.5-ish with a little more finessing of HSABs and main jets.

My question is how well the Sniper (or Terminator, or ProFlow, or ____) can adhere to the usual goals of 14.7:1 idle/cruise and 12.5:1 WOT on fairly heavily cammed small blocks. I feel like I'm getting fairly close to dialed in with our Demon setup, but I'm spoiled from tuning our other cars with Hondata, AEM, etc. on a laptop.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[BuickGS]

Any of the systems will maintain whatever AFR you request it to (once it learns adequately). That is their primary mission! Keep in mind that your engine may or may not like the "usual" goals. I have had an EZ EFI and currently have a Terminator on my Buick. The engine preferred a little richer AFRs than your targets with both systems. It would lean surge if I set cruise AFRs in the 14.7 range. I change it to 13.5 and it runs fine. Lately I have been cold/warm start tuning my settings with the Terminator (the main reason I changed from the EZ-EFI), and have ended up richer than I was expecting to get it happy.
To figure our what WOT AFR is best, go to a drag strip and watch your mph while playing with your target AFR. Assuming the weather doesn't change much during your tuning session, the AFR resulting in the best mph is your winner.