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    1. #41
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Colton Ca.
      Posts
      623
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by BMR Sales View Post
      Actually $85 an hour is pretty cheap! I was a Motorsports Manager at a High End Dealership and our Labor Rate was $115 an hour and the highest paid mechanic was making $25 an hour. Businesses have to make a profit or they go out of business. Rent, Insurance (the Biggie), Receptionist, etc all come into play.

      Comparing Home Depot and Ace Hardware doesn't work. Home Depot is bigger but it's not like Ace is small. Also Ace has Distribution Centers that they bring in larger Orders and Home Depot does not. If Ace charged a higher price on items they wouldn't get the business.

      Today's "Standard" Mechanic I wouldn't trust to change my Oil! High End Car Builders are craftsman, not the idiots you see at Gas Monkey!

      Are Soldiers, Firemen, Policemen, Teachers underpaid? Sure, but they also get Benefits that most Mechanics don't get. Should a Fortune 500 CEO make Tens of Millions of Dollars while I make less than I did 10 Years ago when I have the same education? No, but nobody said life was fair!
      Once again,those are all expenses all business have.

      So charging the customer 4 times the amount they pay the person actually doing the work makes sense for the customer?

      I'm just saying as long as people keep paying the high shop rates the car prices will continue to be high.

      That goes for anything we buy,houses etc.
      Ahmad B.

    2. #42
      Join Date
      Nov 2015
      Location
      South Jersey
      Posts
      58
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Build-It-Break-It View Post
      Once again,those are all expenses all business have.

      So charging the customer 4 times the amount they pay the person actually doing the work makes sense for the customer?

      I'm just saying as long as people keep paying the high shop rates the car prices will continue to be high.

      That goes for anything we buy,houses etc.
      Yes all business have those expenses, so where does the car builder get reimbursed for them? Its through the hourly rate. As for the HD and Ace analogy they keep their pricing down through volume of sales. Also, more to the point, they don't actually make the hardware. They just buy in bulk just like you could. But how much would a bolt cost if you actually had to make each one yourself compared to buying in bulk?


      69 Cougar
      Schwartz Chassis
      5.0 Coyote
      T-56 Magnum 6 Speed
      Baer Brakes

    3. #43
      Join Date
      May 2010
      Location
      kitchener,Ontario,Canada
      Posts
      2,336
      Country Flag: Canada
      I am a custom metal fabricator and have been for almost 15 yrs ....yes theres lots of cutting and grinding welding etc. I don't have the skills to fab a fender . Those skills alone deserve a higher rate of pay then what I make. Keep in mind theres also a huge difference in being a car "assembler" and a car builder . That difference is what separate's the premium builders from the more minor players . Its also better quality tools . In America you can buy a harbour freight welder or a Lincoln. all shop equipment is the same . Jimmey's hot rod shop wont have a CNC mill but Foose does.
      Don't forget the details ,Ring brothers hinges, Anvil Auto carbon goodies , ZR1 brakes a, LS7 these items are all items that are going on or in my chevelle, aside from the actual parts cost on say the anvil hood or trunk . fitting carbon components will add a ton more time vs steel ones . ZR1 brakes will fit under some 18" wheels if measured correctly but that takes time vs Z06 brakes which will fit under almost every 18" wheel. LS7 oil lines vs a LS3 parts and labour for all those lines is way more and crazy more if you make some out of hardline .
      Spinnin'my tires in life's fast lane

      Ryan Austin
      On twitter @raustinss
      On Instagram austinss70

    4. #44
      Join Date
      May 2015
      Location
      Ohio
      Posts
      11
      Country Flag: United States
      I guess in a perfect world Parts would be a lot cheaper and finding guy's that did a great job for a fair price would make the sport probably full of great looking Pro-Touring cars!!! Then when you went to a car show there would be a lot more classics there and not as many New cars there and everybody would have something to talk about. I have been lucky to have had a great Dad that helped me do everything in my total body off restoration back in the 90's!! Plus it helped when he did the motor work and painted the car too!!!! Like I said earlier there is nothing better looking in my opinion than a sweet looking Pro-touring classic cruising down the road!!!

    5. #45
      Join Date
      Sep 2005
      Posts
      49,371
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Build-It-Break-It View Post
      Once again,those are all expenses all business have.

      So charging the customer 4 times the amount they pay the person actually doing the work makes sense for the customer?

      I'm just saying as long as people keep paying the high shop rates the car prices will continue to be high.

      That goes for anything we buy,houses etc.
      Do you think that Home Depot or Ace pays $36 a gallon for paint. No they pay $9 and charge you $36.

      Yes a shop needs to charge 4x or more what the person doing the work is making.

      This is the kind of Debate I see all the time in USA vs Chinese Parts. People say that we should charge 2x what Chinese parts cost. But what about our Intellectual Property that is Stolen & copied, Our R&D, our Fleet of Cars to test, our CNC Machines, Presses, Powdercoat Booths & Ovens, Welding Stations, Sponsoring Forums, Marketing, Traveling & Displaying at Shows, Insurance, Building Costs (we've out-grown the building we moved into 5 Years ago), etc

    6. #46
      Join Date
      Nov 2005
      Location
      Louisville, KY
      Posts
      54
      Quote Originally Posted by BMR Sales View Post
      Do you think that Home Depot or Ace pays $36 a gallon for paint. No they pay $9 and charge you $36.

      Yes a shop needs to charge 4x or more what the person doing the work is making.

      This is the kind of Debate I see all the time in USA vs Chinese Parts. People say that we should charge 2x what Chinese parts cost. But what about our Intellectual Property that is Stolen & copied, Our R&D, our Fleet of Cars to test, our CNC Machines, Presses, Powdercoat Booths & Ovens, Welding Stations, Sponsoring Forums, Marketing, Traveling & Displaying at Shows, Insurance, Building Costs (we've out-grown the building we moved into 5 Years ago), etc
      A lot of people have no idea how much it costs to run the business on top of the labor. They also don't understand that nobody makes money on parts, either. Even if you have a small margin on them, it always gets wiped out on shipping the first time you have to return something.

      hell, even outside of the specialty and fabrication market, several of my friends own general auto shops. Their labor rates range from $85-$125/hr for their techs, and they're barely making a profit.

      Just think about this: failure rate on replacement parts approaches 50 percent on some items (alternators, for instance). But when a shop puts an alternator on and warranties the work, and that alternator fails in 1000 miles (or never works to begin with), the shop has to r&r that thing for free. Sure, Worldpac replaces the part for no charge. But they don't reimburse the shop for extra time to replace it again. All of that overhead is built into the shop rate.

      Nevermind the actual cost of the labor. Pay a guy $25/hr? It costs you an additional 6% on top of that for the employer share of FICA, unemployment insurance premiums, benefits like health care if it's offered, etc. Sure the tech's hourly rate is $25/hr, but he's costing the company nearly $40 on the back end.
      Andrew Scott
      '87 GN - 12.8 @ 108
      https://www.andrewdscott.com
      Instagram: @andrewdscott12
      Twitter: @Andrew1427

    7. #47
      Join Date
      Sep 2005
      Posts
      49,371
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Turbo6inKY View Post
      A lot of people have no idea how much it costs to run the business on top of the labor. They also don't understand that nobody makes money on parts, either. Even if you have a small margin on them, it always gets wiped out on shipping the first time you have to return something.

      hell, even outside of the specialty and fabrication market, several of my friends own general auto shops. Their labor rates range from $85-$125/hr for their techs, and they're barely making a profit.

      Just think about this: failure rate on replacement parts approaches 50 percent on some items (alternators, for instance). But when a shop puts an alternator on and warranties the work, and that alternator fails in 1000 miles (or never works to begin with), the shop has to r&r that thing for free. Sure, Worldpac replaces the part for no charge. But they don't reimburse the shop for extra time to replace it again. All of that overhead is built into the shop rate.

      Nevermind the actual cost of the labor. Pay a guy $25/hr? It costs you an additional 6% on top of that for the employer share of FICA, unemployment insurance premiums, benefits like health care if it's offered, etc. Sure the tech's hourly rate is $25/hr, but he's costing the company nearly $40 on the back end.
      Very Good Points!

    8. #48
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
      Posts
      2,838
      Country Flag: United States
      There is so much facepalm in this thread.

      Think the hot rod shops are getting rich with their exorbitant labor rates? Start your own, charge half price, and win!
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    9. #49
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Colton Ca.
      Posts
      623
      Country Flag: United States
      Delete
      Ahmad B.

    10. #50
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      10,603
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Donny
      There is so much facepalm in this thread.
      That's your quote of the week winner!
      John Parsons

      UnRivaled Rides -- Modern upgrades for your ride.

      UnRivaled Rides recent project -- LS9-powered 69 Camaro

    11. #51
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Fredericksburg, VA.
      Posts
      3,155
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      Agreed!
      Steve Hayes
      "Dust Off"
      68 Camaro

      Given sufficient initial acceleration, even pigs can fly!

    12. #52
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
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      2,838
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      Quote Originally Posted by parsonsj View Post
      That's your quote of the week winner!
      So did I win a vacation?
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    13. #53
      Join Date
      May 2015
      Location
      Ohio
      Posts
      11
      Country Flag: United States
      Donny,

      I believe you just wrapped it up right there!! I noticed on the cars for sale forum there is Pro-Touring car on there for sale as a project for 43k. Car looks awesome and seems like a fair price for what you get,if you could finish it yourself. But I noticed it says over 1600 hours in labor so far!! Wouldn't that make the car worth at least $120,000 right there alone??? Just saying.

    14. #54
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
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      2,838
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      Just saying what?
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    15. #55
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Posts
      709
      The snake that pro-touring became is rapidly eating its own tail. I welcome a return to reasonable hotrodding (creative building as opposed to competitive purchasing/subcontracting), which can totally include autocross and track day performance (instead of dragstrip-only). Pro-touring as a concept did to itself what the financing trend(s) did to certain housing markets a decade ago (they priced themselves out of reality, then the bottom fell out). When you tell hotrodders that they need to spend ten grand for a front suspension setup or a dinosaur-level stick axle (or four grand for front brakes), they will go elsewhere, and smartly so. There's a cool, affordable body out there for an awesome project--it's just not a Camaro, Mustang, or Cuda. That's what this concept used to be all about.



    16. #56
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
      Posts
      2,838
      Country Flag: United States
      Hot Rodding is as old as the automobile itself, it has always been about going, turning, and stopping faster, being more comfortable, safer, and better looking.....none of this is new.....it's not even a recent development. Neither is the money.

      Remember when you had to cast your own intake? Me neither, but that's the way it was until guys like Vic Edelbrock, and hundreds of others, started making parts. Then it got easier.

      Time and money are both currency, you are paying either way.
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

    17. #57
      Join Date
      May 2015
      Location
      Ohio
      Posts
      11
      Country Flag: United States
      Just saying in the for-sale ad it says 1600 hours of fab work,so at $75.00 per hour that's $120,000 right!! Plus it says over $30,000 in body work. So why sell it for only 43k? Shouldn't they be starting at like 150k? That's what they would charge you if you brought them a car to build right? Doesn't really make sense to me.

    18. #58
      Join Date
      Aug 2005
      Location
      Hamilton, NJ
      Posts
      4,291
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by dontlifttoshift View Post
      There is so much facepalm in this thread.

      Think the hot rod shops are getting rich with their exorbitant labor rates? Start your own, charge half price, and win!
      Lol yes

      And it just keeps going....
      Scott from NJ.

      Vent Windows Forever! ...

      Feather-light suspension, Konis just couldn't hold
      I'm so glad I took a look inside your showroom doors

    19. #59
      Join Date
      Jun 2001
      Location
      Orlando, FL
      Posts
      10,603
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by turbo dude
      Just saying in the for-sale ad it says 1600 hours of fab work,so at $75.00 per hour that's $120,000 right!! Plus it says over $30,000 in body work. So why sell it for only 43k? Shouldn't they be starting at like 150k? That's what they would charge you if you brought them a car to build right? Doesn't really make sense to me.
      It's selling (or not selling, actually) for what it's worth. The seller is trying to import what it's worth based on what it cost, but as we all know, that's a very loose relationship.

      If you want to play with these car-toys, play away. But they are just toys, and it's a rare toy that is worth more than it cost.
      John Parsons

      UnRivaled Rides -- Modern upgrades for your ride.

      UnRivaled Rides recent project -- LS9-powered 69 Camaro

    20. #60
      Join Date
      Sep 2010
      Location
      Beach Park IL
      Posts
      2,838
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      Quote Originally Posted by theturboman2010 View Post
      Just saying in the for-sale ad it says 1600 hours of fab work,so at $75.00 per hour that's $120,000 right!! Plus it says over $30,000 in body work. So why sell it for only 43k? Shouldn't they be starting at like 150k? That's what they would charge you if you brought them a car to build right? Doesn't really make sense to me.
      Are you saying that a shop should be able to build the car for 43K or that you would rather pay 150K to buy it?
      Donny

      Support your local hot rod shop!

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