Project 53 Bel Air

[tterbo]

315's all around on the Pumkinator will look sweet too!

[tterbo]

Well, I started to design the lower control arm mounts but it was pretty much a fail. I thought I could build a cage to tie all four mounts together then connect them to the frame rails with two vertical uprights on each side. While I did get a few measurements wrong (holes don't quite line up and rear bushings contact the main tube of the cage), the main problem is oil pan clearance. Most subframes I see do not connect the rear of the A-arm mounts together with any type of crossmember, to allow room for the sump of the pan. I really wanted to do this for strength but it would force me to move the motor back like 8" (more than I want to) so back to the drawing board...

My next plans will be to make a 2" x 4" main dropped crossmember, biased towards the front, and tie my inner A-arm mounts to it then run some low-profile gusseted plate brackets down from the frame to catch the outermost A-arm bushings. This will be plenty strong and may even allow me to run the 8 quart LS3 pan I have...fingers crossed.

[wfo guy]

You're doing fine. A few surprises in engineering is to be expected in the build. You only should feel bad if you missed the problem until the 1st drive. Keep on keeping on.

[srcracing]

Looking good. I used the Holley oil pan which gives more clearance, but only holds 6 quarts. As far as the front wheels, I'm running 275's on corveete 18 x 9.5 on front with a stock front end width + 3/4" for the C5 brakes. I don't contact the fenders, but I rolled them out slightly. Added about `1/2 " or more per side and you no one has noticed the fenders being rolled. Soon I will see how it works with the C5 front suspension. I believe the stock front width to the back of the wheels is 56" but I never measured it.

[tterbo]

You're doing fine. A few surprises in engineering is to be expected in the build. You only should feel bad if you missed the problem until the 1st drive. Keep on keeping on.

Thanks for the support. Have something in the works now that shows promise...hopefully will have another update soon.

Looking good. I used the Holley oil pan which gives more clearance, but only holds 6 quarts. As far as the front wheels, I'm running 275's on corveete 18 x 9.5 on front with a stock front end width + 3/4" for the C5 brakes. I don't contact the fenders, but I rolled them out slightly. Added about `1/2 " or more per side and you no one has noticed the fenders being rolled. Soon I will see how it works with the C5 front suspension. I believe the stock front width to the back of the wheels is 56" but I never measured it.

That's good to hear. If you have 275's on yours as is and are at 56" I should be looking good at 54" for possible 315's...maybe. Fingers crossed.

[tterbo]

Not much of an update but here are some pics of the new crossmember I am building. This will have two heavy wall tubes that go through it to capture the inner sides of the lower A-arm bushings. Since it is a structural member that will see most of the A-arm load, mount the rack and support the motor I am putting internal gussets inside. 3/16" vertical plate with 1/8" cap plates.

[tterbo]

I got a little more time to work on the front crossmember and suspension this past weekend and it is finally starting to look like something. After using what felt like half a roll of welding wire I got the front crossmember welded up and tacked into position on the frame rails. Since my wheel position is fixed, the lower control arm mounts pretty much "self-position" front-to-back once my target caster setting is established.

Then I took some 1-3/8" x 1/4" wall DOM tubing for the lower A-arm mounts. I had these 14mm threaded inserts that just so happened to fit snugly into the tube which worked out nicely as they have a large thrust flange for the bushings.





With the lower A-arm positioned I started figuring out how to mount the upper A-arm and coil-over. The upper arm mounts at an angle tilting upward back-to-front, around 6-7 degrees. This matches the OE caster angles of the spindle which is where I am setting the center of my caster adjustment. I designed an upper A-arm mount with slotted holes to allow extra caster adjustment. Once I cut out the plate and put it in place I realized that I was going to have a problem getting negative camber. The C5 suspension forced the frame rails to be narrower than I was expecting so I cheated it a little by offsetting the A-arm mounts inward to keep my frame rails as wide as possible. It was easy to do on the lower A-arm mounts but the uppers are hanging the mounts off the frame rail on the inboard side of the rail. After spending too much time trying to figure out how to make an offset upper mount I came up with an easier solution. If I mount the arms on the inside of the mounts instead of the outside I have all the camber adjustment I need. The only problem was the mounting shafts in the bushings. I would have to slide them through the mount then weld the mount in place which would make the arms unserviceable and "locked" onto the frame. The easy solution to this was to order a set of Delrin upper bushings. Companies like ridetech, Van Steel, and Pfadts make them so the inner mounting shaft easily comes out by removing a C-clip. This will allow me to slide the arm through the mount and then install the mounting shafts. And of course it will also eliminate the deflection in the upper A-arms by removing the soft rubber bushings. I will probably upgrade all of the bushings to Delrin eventually.



That's as far as I got but hopefully I will have some upper A-arms and coil-overs mounted soon then on to the rack mount!

[srcracing]

Looking geat. Got to say, I'm jealous seeing the plasma table going. I have to get one, some day. What size is your table? Back to your project, front suspension looks great, it will work great!

[AU Doc]

Subscribed. This is going to be a cool car!!!!

[tterbo]

Looking geat. Got to say, I'm jealous seeing the plasma table going. I have to get one, some day. What size is your table? Back to your project, front suspension looks great, it will work great!

I honestly don't know what I would do without the plasma table. I can't even remember what it was like sawing, drilling, and grinding everything. It's just a 4' x 4' table but it has more than paid for itself over the 10 years I have had it.

Subscribed. This is going to be a cool car!!!!

Thanks!

[Ben@SpeedTech]

There are some incredible things at work here. The only bad thing to this whole build is when you get done most folks won't see what you've put into it. I think I speak for others too, I appreciate seeing it unfold and it's all inspiring to keep me moving forward with my own project. Keep up the great work!

[tterbo]

There are some incredible things at work here. The only bad thing to this whole build is when you get done most folks won't see what you've put into it. I think I speak for others too, I appreciate seeing it unfold and it's all inspiring to keep me moving forward with my own project. Keep up the great work!

Thanks! That's how I get inspired too...watching other people's projects advance. That and people sending positive comments on my own project!

[tterbo]

I got some time to finish up the front suspension this weekend. I may end up having to get shorter coil-overs eventually but I already had these so I will wait and see how they work out. They have a 4" stroke but Viking now has a shock with the same stroke in a smaller body. Due to packaging constraints I have 2.25" extension and only 1.75" compression at this height. I won't really know how this works out until the car is on all fours, full weight, and at the ride height I want. I am happy with how everything turned out and I'm looking forward to mounting the rack and pinion and dropping a motor between the rails next.

[Motown 454]

Beautiful work,I look forward to your updates.

[wfo guy]

I am not the expert but from what I have done, your short compression measurement won't be acceptable. I would suggest you change that now. it's looking very nice.

[tterbo]

Beautiful work,I look forward to your updates.

Thanks!

I am not the expert but from what I have done, your short compression measurement won't be acceptable. I would suggest you change that now. it's looking very nice.

I tend to agree with you that these shocks may not work out but at this point I don't see any harm in waiting to address it later since there are multiple shock options I can use and because I do not yet know how high up in the body I will be setting the frame. It's entirely possible that I may need to raise it up a little which could put me right at equal 2" droop/2" compression. The motion ratio on the lower control arm is roughly 70/30 so even where it is now my 1.75" of shock travel becomes 2.25" out at the wheel (still not a lot I know). Something else I may be able to do (if it is really close to working) is cheat the motion ratio by relocating the lower shock mount inward on the lower control arm. If I could get the motion ratio even to 60/40 with a simple bracket I could get another 1/4" of wheel travel. Let's hope this work out but at least there are options if not.

[tterbo]

Ok. I knew things were going to be tight using long Corvette A-arms in such a narrow chassis but I think I just ran into my biggest challenge yet. I put the LS3 pan on my mockup block, bolted the 6 speed to it and lowered it into the chassis to begin making motor mounts. I am really happy with the fore/aft position of the motor in relation to the suspension and I like where it sits heightwise once I got my driveline angles established. But what I immediately realized is the lack of exhaust clearance between the head and frame rail. This is going to be fun.
Just for the heck of it I tried every manifold and header I had to see if they would work but nothing is even close to fitting in such a narrow area. I don't want to raise the motor so it's looking like I will be building custom headers.

Also, I was planning to run a stock accessory drive with A/C but there is not enough room for the compressor on the passenger side. Again, I am not compromising the low center of gravity and raising the motor just to accommodate an A/C compressor. And I really don't want to spend money on an aftermarket accessory drive so I will probably be notching my newly finished crossmember to make the compressor fit where it is supposed to go.

Fortunately none of these are impossible problems to overcome and I am really happy to finally see a motor sitting between the frame rails.



This is almost exactly where the motor sits on a C5/C6 Corvette in relation to the front suspension. I can't wait to see how much this interferes with the firewall

[tterbo]

Well, I may have found a solution to my exhaust problem...

[TomMLS1]

Are you opposed to buying a set of headers? If not, take a look at the Stainless works headers for a 1st or 2nd gen Nova...62-67. They have a very tight turn radius at the heads and look like they are what you need. I've installed a few sets, and they actually work on most aftermarket clips, as well as a stock Nova front end, which they were designed for....

T,

[tterbo]

Are you opposed to buying a set of headers? If not, take a look at the Stainless works headers for a 1st or 2nd gen Nova...62-67. They have a very tight turn radius at the heads and look like they are what you need. I've installed a few sets, and they actually work on most aftermarket clips, as well as a stock Nova front end, which they were designed for....

T,

I am not really opposed to buying headers if I have to. Thanks for the suggestion on headers btw. I looked at the ones you suggested and they may clear the frame but I am concerned about how low they hang since I have my motor positioned so low. And even more concerned about spending $1200 just to find out if they would work...ouch! I could build a set for probably half that but that's a big project I wasn't planning on either. I know they make block hugger headers that could possibly work too. I am testing some corvette headers from a friend in a few days to see how they work. If I run out of pre-made options, I might have to just build them...