LS3 - first start - no fuel

[andrewb70]

I think its the E67.

Yeah...earlier you said GMPP stuff, so E67. It's easy to tell because the E67 has 3 large plugs, not 2. Depending on the exact kit, they will have different tunes. There are many GMPP kits available for the various crate engines. Those kits are well made (I have one in the GTO) it would be odd if there was a problem in the actual harness, but I suppose it is possible.

Andrew

[dhutton]

Yeah...earlier you said GMPP stuff, so E67. It's easy to tell because the E67 has 3 large plugs, not 2. Depending on the exact kit, they will have different tunes. There are many GMPP kits available for the various crate engines. Those kits are well made (I have one in the GTO) it would be odd if there was a problem in the actual harness, but I suppose it is possible.

Andrew

Couple cases of bad GMPP harnesses on the Tri Five forum recently. PITA getting warranty support from GMPP. I might go Speartech on my next build.

Don

[andrewb70]

Couple cases of bad GMPP harnesses on the Tri Five forum recently. PITA getting warranty support from GMPP. I might go Speartech on my next build.

Don

Mine is from 2008, so I don't know what's going on currently. Presumably Zach's is older too. As I suggested, I would trace the pins back to the ECU and make sure everything is where it is supposed to be. As I recall, the GMPP harness is based on the CTSV, which used the E67, so I would try to get a pinout from it...

Andrew

[Zachalanche]

I do remember my ECU and harness being difficult to get at the time (related to the earthquake in japan back in 2011 that caused the nuclear spill). not sure if that had any effect on the quality of the parts. or exactly which pieces of it even come from japan (I would assume the ECU).

If you find a pin out or wiring diagram (Andrew) that matches that would be most helpful. I have some pin out info for the E67, but not sure if its 100% complete

I pulled the cam sensor out last night, and see no physical damage. I still need to find out if there are any resistance checks I can do. I suppose I could apply power to it and wave a piece of metal across it to see if it triggers.

one odd thing I noticed is that the wire extension that goes from the sensor to the bottom of the timing cover swaps the two outer pins (as if the harness was twisted 180*). I think that swaps the power and signal wires, but keeps the ground in the center. from some quick internet research this appears to be correct, but it seems odd.

I also need to find a way to see in the cam sensor hole. hopefully the cam gear is correct and has some sort of reluctor on it. Im not even sure if its possible to assemble this engine with a part that wouldn't have that.

This harness is as shipped. although I wanted to make bulkhead connections at the firewall for ease of assembly, I opted not to just in case I ran into issues, I didn't want to be chasing problems that I may have introduced. Based on that I think there is low chance that there is a wiring issue. not impossible, but also not likely.

[Zachalanche]

Do you have any software that will allow you to monitor cam and crank signals while cranking? Here is the injector cleaning guy...

His name is Eric Derr.
DERR Injector Service
[email protected] (502) 381-4678

What the history of this engine?

Andrew

I contacted Eric. He helped me with some troubleshooting and I was able to verify I had not compromised the coil on my injector that won't open. His services also sound like a screaming deal compared to the thought of replacing all...or even any of these. So Ill be sending the injectors out soon. that should help a bit. Even the ones that work now- I'm not so sure function exactly how they should.

[Schwartz Performance]

FYI the pins on OE E67 are not identical to the GMPP E67. I found that out the hard way, when I used a GMPP harness and an OE computer from the dealer.

[Zachalanche]

FYI the pins on OE E67 are not identical to the GMPP E67. I found that out the hard way, when I used a GMPP harness and an OE computer from the dealer.

how do you tell the difference between the two?

[Schwartz Performance]

how do you tell the difference between the two?

The part number, or when plugged in to HP tuners, or a Tech II at the dealer.

[andrewb70]

Dale,

John Parsons ran into something with this. He was trying to enable pwm fan control on a LS9 with GM harness and GM said it's not possible. I didn't think that GM would bother doing a dedicates ECU for their aftermarket kits, but they may well have.

With that said, people that have the early kits seem to have a regular ctsv ECU. I don't know exactly when the change occurred. John eventually got another ECU and reflashed it and was able to make it work.



Does GM offer a pinout for the ECU?

Andrew

[Zachalanche]

A couple more pieces to the puzzle here. My injectors have been cleaned and are in the mail. The pre test showed significant fouling, and the flows varied widely between the 7 injectors that worked. All 8 are now functioning as they should thanks to Erik Derr.

One new thing I found out is my cam gear seems to only have 1 reluctor tooth. The one that spans about 180 drgrees. I'm worried that isn't the right gear for use with the 58x crank. Can any one confirm?

[andrewb70]

....

One new thing I found out is my cam gear seems to only have 1 reluctor tooth. The one that spans about 180 drgrees. I'm worried that isn't the right gear for use with the 58x crank. Can any one confirm?

That is definitely a problem. You need a 4x cam gear with 58 tooth crank.

Andrew

[Zachalanche]

There isn't a font big enough for me to type the F-word right now.

[andrewb70]

There isn't a font big enough for me to type the F-word right now.

I feel your pain brother. The good news is that the cam gear is not THAT hard to swap. You pull the balancer, take off the front cover, pull the plugs, rotate the engine so the dots on the crank and cam gear are lined up, remove and replace the cam gear and button it up.

Dale can probably get you the right gear.

Andrew

[Zachalanche]

I feel your pain brother. The good news is that the cam gear is not THAT hard to swap. You pull the balancer, take off the front cover, pull the plugs, rotate the engine so the dots on the crank and cam gear are lined up, remove and replace the cam gear and button it up.

Dale can probably get you the right gear.

Andrew

Well, thanks for verifying. Who is dale? Looks like summit has them for 70 bucks.

This makes me want to break out the dial indicators and see what I have for a cam now.

Hopefully the cam gear swap makes the engine 100% ready to go. Thanks to everyone for the help.

Cheers.

[Zachalanche]

correction 23.98 shipped from Jegs for just the gear.

probably better tear into it before I order just in case the timing set is something other than what I am expecting.

[andrewb70]

correction 23.98 shipped from Jegs for just the gear.

probably better tear into it before I order just in case the timing set is something other than what I am expecting.

Dale Schwartz, of Schwartz Performance. He posted earlier in the thread.

Good idea to tear into it first. Keep us posted here or in your build thread.

Andrew

[Zachalanche]

3 bolts, 1 sensor tooth. so I was right...pretty good for just sticking my finger in the hole. lol.

Dale, If you can match or beat Jegs, I'd be happy to purchase from you.

[andrewb70]

3 bolts, 1 sensor tooth. so I was right...pretty good for just sticking my finger in the hole. lol.

Dale, If you can match or beat Jegs, I'd be happy to purchase from you.

Well, at least you have solved it and it's a relatively easy fix! You need PN 12586481.

Just don't forget to sign up the cam before you pull it...LOL

Andrew

[Zachalanche]

Success! Amazing what the right cam gear and working injectors will do.

Seems like it wants to die if I push the gas, but I probably just need to let It warm up.

[andrewb70]

Success! Amazing what the right cam gear and working injectors will do.

Seems like it wants to die if I push the gas, but I probably just need to let It warm up.

This thread need a video with vroom vroom noises.

Andrew