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    Results 1 to 12 of 12
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      282
      Country Flag: United States

      Thoughts on Water/Meth injection on a carburated motor for octane boost????

      I have a 572 bbc dynoed at 742HP running 12.5:1 Comp. Also running a 850 QuickFuel carb. Was only thinking HP and numbers at the time of the build and now reality has set in. Realizing I can't run this on pump gas(91 is the highest we have), I was wondering who has run the water/meth set-ups and how well they actually work, pros and cons if any and also reliability of these systems. I know mixing race/airplane gas 50/50 is an option but not very practical when you are at a car show some miles away and the needle is in the red. Any info you guys could give would be greatly appreciated.



    2. #2
      Join Date
      Sep 2006
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      4,699
      Country Flag: United States
      http://turbomirage.com/water for home built, or snow performance
      If your using aluminum heads, avgas isnt formulated for low altitude use and can actually damage your engine. Ask me how I know, I build engines. Race fuel is ok, as for me I prefer 100 octane unleaded and then I would use the water meth.
      For regular driving windshield washer fluid is fine. Snow has Boostjuice but its salty.
      Lee Abel
      AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE

      1977 Chevy Monza 2+2:Project "Cheap Trick"
      1978 C10 Long bed , On air and trailer puller
      2006 Buell Blast ,Just a bike to ride and for mileage
      1966 Caprice 4dr Sports Roof fact.327/now 350/SOON 454???? Project "II Old,,,ZERO BUDGET OR LESS CAPRICE!"

    3. #3
      Join Date
      May 2006
      Posts
      76
      do you have e85 near you?

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      282
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by MonzaRacer View Post
      http://turbomirage.com/water for home built, or snow performance
      If your using aluminum heads, avgas isnt formulated for low altitude use and can actually damage your engine. Ask me how I know, I build engines. Race fuel is ok, as for me I prefer 100 octane unleaded and then I would use the water meth.
      For regular driving windshield washer fluid is fine. Snow has Boostjuice but its salty.
      All I can say is wow. I do have AFR aluminum heads and my engine builder was the one who told me to use AV gas. Maybe it is not soo bad if you are mixing with 91? I was looking into the Snow performance Stage 2 muscle car kit. Thank you for the link - it is very informatiove, but I personally would rather spend a few extra dollars for my own peace of mind rather than messing up something and blowing up a brand new $14K motor but that is just me. I know these systems arr proven but my big question is what it does to the internals other then steam cleaning. As with a electroylsis in a cooling system, is this something to worry about using this injection system?
      Quote Originally Posted by z28orshoot View Post
      do you have e85 near you?
      Considering I had to look E85 up on google to see what it was, that would be a big fat no lol.

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Sep 2006
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      4,699
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by pittpens24 View Post
      All I can say is wow. I do have AFR aluminum heads and my engine builder was the one who told me to use AV gas. Maybe it is not soo bad if you are mixing with 91? I was looking into the Snow performance Stage 2 muscle car kit. Thank you for the link - it is very informatiove, but I personally would rather spend a few extra dollars for my own peace of mind rather than messing up something and blowing up a brand new $14K motor but that is just me. I know these systems arr proven but my big question is what it does to the internals other then steam cleaning. As with a electroylsis in a cooling system, is this something to worry about using this injection system?

      Considering I had to look E85 up on google to see what it was, that would be a big fat no lol.
      No electrolysis will happen as its being mixed into the air/fuel mixture. What happens is the water fills in the lean areas of mixture. See lean mixture with dry air will detonate easier. Let it rain hard and engine will knock less if at all. As long as your cranking compression stays ,according to one book I read, under 220 and closer to 180-190 psi you should not get spark knock using water/meth ( summer washer fluid for daily driving, Snow Performance boost juice for racing).
      Now, timing curve is critical, initial timing should be set as high as possible and not buck starter, then tailoring the centrifugal advance to max advance that provides best power (in racing that means fastest time) with out spark knock or loss of power. THEN I use vacuum advance hooked to manifold vacuum and use adjustable advance can for dialing purposes. Vac advance is for mileage. There used to be a water injection brand callec Goodman system, one of the best. I know of 3 big turbo 4 cylinders running well over 30 psi with no ill effects. And on pump gas with washerfluid. I used a cheap Holley kit on my Pontiac I built with closed chamber heads and short duration cam, rattled like a pig above 3500 with out it.
      I ran my 402 bbc with 10.5 to 1 and iron heads and what ever cam I had in it be it the sealed power one, or the Chet Herbert B6J roller or the last cam which i forget the brand of.The roller was only 292 duration 108 or 110 cl. .561 lift but played nice on 94 octane sunoco ultra.or even 93 premium.
      Lee Abel
      AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE

      1977 Chevy Monza 2+2:Project "Cheap Trick"
      1978 C10 Long bed , On air and trailer puller
      2006 Buell Blast ,Just a bike to ride and for mileage
      1966 Caprice 4dr Sports Roof fact.327/now 350/SOON 454???? Project "II Old,,,ZERO BUDGET OR LESS CAPRICE!"

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      282
      Country Flag: United States
      Thank you for the detailed response. In the interim, I did buy the Stage 2 muscle car kit from Snow. He actually recommended that I use a carb plate with dual injectors to get enough methanol for my said application. After reading everything I could online and picking Matt's brain at Snow Performance, I am at ease with my decision to go with the injection. I'm sure I will need help with final setup when I get there. Car shell just got painted this week so I am expecting first fire up in about a month.

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Sep 2006
      Location
      Southern Indiana
      Posts
      4,699
      Country Flag: United States


      pics or video work well here
      Lee Abel
      AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE

      1977 Chevy Monza 2+2:Project "Cheap Trick"
      1978 C10 Long bed , On air and trailer puller
      2006 Buell Blast ,Just a bike to ride and for mileage
      1966 Caprice 4dr Sports Roof fact.327/now 350/SOON 454???? Project "II Old,,,ZERO BUDGET OR LESS CAPRICE!"

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      282
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by MonzaRacer View Post


      pics or video work well here
      As requested. Have the tank, pump and solenoid mounted in the trunk. The adjustable controller is stuck with velcro under the dash for easy access(too hard to get a pic of that one lol). The kit did come with a 1" dual nozzle carb plate that I could not use because of height issues so I had to drill and tap my manifold for the injection nozzles shown in the other pic directly under the center of the carb front and back with the red nylon line.
      Attached Images Attached Images      

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Ma.
      Posts
      5,567
      Country Flag: United States
      Nice set up. I have a kit to use with my LSA, still deciding whether to us it or not. How big is that tank?
      Wayne
      Car FINALLY home !!!!!! lol
      Project FNQUIK https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ghlight=FNQUIK

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Jul 2013
      Location
      St. George, UT
      Posts
      1,144
      Country Flag: United States
      I'm doing the same thing, only with a 12.5:1 small block. It's still apart so I can't add any insight yet. To be safe I did some research and found parts to set up a knock sensor with an LED gauge and I also invested in an MSD timing control so I can retard the timing should I ever run low on fluid. I'm piecing mine together rather than getting a kit. I'd assume yours has one, but if not I also bought a washer bottle float that will trip a light on as the fluid gets low. I've read you can get away with plain distilled water and the meth mixture will do even better. Maybe not a bad idea to keep a gallon of bottled water in the trunk just in case.
      -Ben, Creative Director at Speedtech Performance
      We sell some really cool parts, build cool cars, and do cool concept renderings too!
      435-628-4300 www.speedtechperformance.com
      My Pumkinator build thread- https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ght=pumkinator

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      282
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Motown 454 View Post
      Nice set up. I have a kit to use with my LSA, still deciding whether to us it or not. How big is that tank?
      2-1/2 Gallon believe it or not cuz I didn't til I filled it up lol

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Location
      NJ
      Posts
      282
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Ben@SpeedTech View Post
      I'm doing the same thing, only with a 12.5:1 small block. It's still apart so I can't add any insight yet. To be safe I did some research and found parts to set up a knock sensor with an LED gauge and I also invested in an MSD timing control so I can retard the timing should I ever run low on fluid. I'm piecing mine together rather than getting a kit. I'd assume yours has one, but if not I also bought a washer bottle float that will trip a light on as the fluid gets low. I've read you can get away with plain distilled water and the meth mixture will do even better. Maybe not a bad idea to keep a gallon of bottled water in the trunk just in case.
      I also read somewhere that you can run straight up distilled water, but not entirely too sure on that. The minimum I would personally run in a pinch would be BLUE windshield washer fluid which has somewhere around 25-30% alcohol. This is an option for me where I live because we are in the colder climates here in NJ. Depending on where you are, it may not be available. On the Snow website, they say you can even "spike" your blue washer fluid with 2-3 bottles of Heet(but that would be more expensive than just buying the Snow Boost Juice from Summit Racing). It really isn't priced that bad for a 49%-51% mixture of meth to water. I am lucky enough to have a local drag strip next to me so I went and bought the pure meth and mixed it myself - it's always fun to play Mr. Chemist lol. Just fired up my car a couple weeks ago for the first time so I am not at the point where I have even armed the meth system yet. Have another good month or so before my wheels show up. Car is rolling on 15" wheels now and the big brake calipers will not fit on there as long as I keep it rolling.





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