DEI535 pwr window controller

[cdrod]

Anyone have a experience installing a DEI 535t power window controller? It's an aftermarket version of an OEM body control module; adds "1-touch" up and down functions and can be programmed to vent windows, or roll them up when arming the alarm system. I would like to build my own power window set-up using the factory motors and regulators, but use more modern toggle style switches. My car is a convertible so the "1-touch" down feature is very appealing. Only $50 from Amazon.



https://www.amazon.com/Directed-Elec...words=DEI+535t

[H2Ogbodies]

You don't need a body module-not sure if you are using factory power windows or not-I don't think their kit will work on self grounding window motors-if you're doing reverse polarity motors you should be okay. OEM window motors were the self grounding type. If you are going with a window conversion kit those typically use reverse polarity motors. I use GM solid state 4-wire modules in my kits.

[H2Ogbodies]

Here is one of my 70-79 fbody kits-it's designed to be installed cleanly under the center console and the a-bodies are similar in design but as I said it depends on what type of window motors you plan to run.

[cdrod]

Jabin:
I spoke with you last year about implementing auto-up/auto-dn on my '72 Old convertible project. I have a complete factory power window set-up (motors and regulators) but want to use more modern toggle switches like you find in newer vehicles. You are correct that my factory motors are "self-grounding" with one winding for the up direction and another winding for the down direction. But I don't under stand why this is a problem with a polarity reversing module like the DEI535 I'm looking at. The factory circuit design left the unused winding open, so if you were running the window down, only the down winding has power, the up winding is left unconnected.
As I understand it, the switching polarity circuit design would connect the unused winding to ground and the other to 12vdc. Wouldn't the motor still turn because the current could flow to ground through the case, or does grounding the unused winding cause problems. Is this schematic symbol a correct representation of the "self-grounding" motors?

[CapSS92]

Hi Rodney,
I found a couple of things for you that may help. I love the interweb! ;) First is a circuit that runs power through relays and then you can use whatever switch you want. That takes care of your switch problem.

http://www.78ta.com/HTAF/index.php?topic=40530.0

After reading the manual on the 535T it looks like one touch doesn't work on 4 window mode. Quote-“One touch” does not function in 4 window mode." Maybe it just offers an all window roll up or down feature. I used 2 530T modules on my Chevelle but I'm using aftermarket window motors and I have one touch on all and remote up/down through the alarm. That self grounding motor on your stock setup does seem like a hassle. But I can't see why you can't make it work in one direction only. I did find you another solution using OEM one touch controllers. It would be a lot of wiring but you would have one touch down or up on each window. Check out this link.

http://www.w-body.com/topic/52492-ho...s-auto-updown/

Overall I think one touch could be done with your stock motors but it's a lot of wiring. Here's a link to what should be how your stock motors are wired. It's for a two door Malibu but it shows how the self grounding setup works. Hope this helps you. Thanks.

Alex

https://gbodyforum.com/threads/power...-wiring.18540/

[CapSS92]

I found the info on the GM module. I don't know if it self cancels like the Ford version but here's the info if you need it.

http://www.vettemod.com/forum/showthread.php?p=93330

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...614182&_sop=15

[H2Ogbodies]

Jabin:
I spoke with you last year about implementing auto-up/auto-dn on my '72 Old convertible project. I have a complete factory power window set-up (motors and regulators) but want to use more modern toggle switches like you find in newer vehicles. You are correct that my factory motors are "self-grounding" with one winding for the up direction and another winding for the down direction. But I don't under stand why this is a problem with a polarity reversing module like the DEI535 I'm looking at. The factory circuit design left the unused winding open, so if you were running the window down, only the down winding has power, the up winding is left unconnected.
As I understand it, the switching polarity circuit design would connect the unused winding to ground and the other to 12vdc. Wouldn't the motor still turn because the current could flow to ground through the case, or does grounding the unused winding cause problems. Is this schematic symbol a correct representation of the "self-grounding" motors?

Hello! You can't ground the unused terminal @ the window motor while providing voltage to the other terminal-you'll get a loud "snap" while they make contact and the wiring will begin to melt in about 3 seconds! I've done a LOT of troubleshooting using both self grounding and reverse polarity window motors.

[CapSS92]

Oh I completely agree with you. I can't see how any of the aftermarket modules would be able to control a self grounding motor. However, in the case of a one direction one touch, you're only powering the down or up wire. Since there would be no ground to the other wire, it would be isolated. If you look at the schematic from the G-body link, the power window switches don't run ground or power at rest. Even if he used the relay setup from the link to the 78TA site, it would still isolate all the wires. So why wouldn't the GM or Ford module work since it's only powering one wire? Shoot if I had a motor here, I'd love to test it. I like fire. ;) Just for grins, I went to the local yard today and got a GM and a Ford module. We're going to test it on my buddy's 85 Elco that I'm rewiring. Unfortunately it uses the newer 2 wire motors so I can't use it as self grounding motor test bed but he's happy to get a one touch down on his drivers side.

[H2Ogbodies]

The Fords have 5 wires with one being a constant ground. The GM ones are far more robust. The aftermarket 1-touch controllers I don't have any experience with-I just prefer using OEM with their extreme engineering. I do know I've seen even worn out self grounding window motors pull about 13 amps so they can definitely soak up the juice!

[cdrod]

Has anyone modified an OEM "Self-grounding" motors by reworking the internal wiring? I've been inside one of my OEM motors and the ground is just a wire from one of the brushes that is pinched to the case when you tighten the bolts. How hard would it be to isolate this wire from the case and route it to one of the power connector pins thus eliminating one of the windings and the case ground? You could then reverse the polarity of the motor without the "self-grounding" feature getting in the way. I was already planning to clean up my 40 year old motors and replace brushes if necessary. This mod seems pretty easy to implement.
My next question is will the DEI535 window controller handle the current draw. I've bench tested all 4 of my motors to see if the worked and they each pull 6-9 amps at no-load. The DEI module is rated at 12v, 20 amps. HMMM? One nice feature of the DEI module is integration into an alarm system so it can "vent" the windows just a crack, and roll them up if the alarm is tripped.

[CapSS92]

I don't think you'll have a problem with the current draw. My 530T's handle mine with no problems. However, and maybe I'm reading this wrong, the 535 in a 4 window configuration doesn't seem to do one touch and will only handle one direction. In that case you will still need two modules to do what you want. As for the rewire, I found this link that talks about trying to do this to a Ford motor that pretty much works the same way. They talk about there being separate brushes for each direction. I say do it and see what happens. From what I can find, seems like that's going to be the only way. Any chance you could switch the motors to a two wire setup? DORMAN 742101 is a motor that is used on tons of GM vehicles and can mounted in pretty much any direction. My Nu-Relics rear pw uses these. Rockauto has them for $20 each.

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/all-...6-galaxie.html

[blitzer454]

I don't have any experience with a self grounding motor, but it seems to me that you could make this work very easily by adding a couple of diodes. Connect the cathode of a diode to each non-ground wire of the motor. Then connect each anode of the diode to the output of the DEI535 motor controller. Then configure the DEI535 as if it was controlling a reversible-polarity motor. So when one wire of the DEI535 output is hot and the other is ground then one of the diodes will block the current from flowing through one of the motor winding. When the polarity is reversed then the other diode will block the current to the other motor winding. The motor will operate in the desired direction because of the current that flows from the hot DEI535 output wire through the diode then through the motor winding and then to the ground of the motor.

[H2Ogbodies]

I just think it's about to the point of why bother? lol It's almost too much work to make the tire more than 99.9% round imo

[cdrod]

Cap:
The DEI module will operate 2 windows with auto up and dn or 4 windows with auto up or auto dn but not both directions. I was planning to use 2 modules to have auto up/dn functionality on all 4 windows.

Blitzer:
Using diodes to block the reverse voltage is a great idea, but the DEI docs state that the module will not work with relays or other solid state control modules because it needs to sense the AC noise generated by the motor to control the window movement. The diode would block this connection.

Jabin:
Are there late model, reversible motors (without self-grounding) that will bolt up to the 70's era window regulators? I wouldn't be opposed to upgrading to newer motors while I'm at it.

Thanks for all the replies.

[blitzer454]

I think the AC "noise" they are referring to is the current change that will occur when the window reaches the stop at the top or bottom of the window travel. In this case the diodes should not interfere with the operation of the DEI module, but I won't make any guarantees.

[CapSS92]

The diode idea sounds like that might work. I hadn't even thought of that. Only one way to find out. Rodney, call these guys and see what they tell you. They do a lot of power window conversions. Maybe they have a motor that will fit.

http://www.a1electric.com/motors.htm

Nurelics uses the newer motors on their kits.
https://www.opgi.com/common/CH26928-lrg.jpg

Which are DORMAN 742150 motors. Rockauto has them for $17. Here's a link so you can see what they look like.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevrolet-GM...NRhpR5&vxp=mtr

These guys use the newer motors on their regulators as well.
https://www.carid.com/auto-metal-dir...uUoaApGt8P8HAQ

And while it does seem like a huge hassle, I think in the end it's all worth it cause 1.) you're now an expert on it and 2.) you made it work. For me that's always the satisfaction. HTH.

Alex

[H2Ogbodies]

Cap:
The DEI module will operate 2 windows with auto up and dn or 4 windows with auto up or auto dn but not both directions. I was planning to use 2 modules to have auto up/dn functionality on all 4 windows.

Blitzer:
Using diodes to block the reverse voltage is a great idea, but the DEI docs state that the module will not work with relays or other solid state control modules because it needs to sense the AC noise generated by the motor to control the window movement. The diode would block this connection.

Jabin:
Are there late model, reversible motors (without self-grounding) that will bolt up to the 70's era window regulators? I wouldn't be opposed to upgrading to newer motors while I'm at it.

Thanks for all the replies.

To my knowledge-no. That isn't to say somebody doesn't offer "retrofit" motors-I haven't really looked into that tho.

[TerryD]

Here is one of my 70-79 fbody kits-it's designed to be installed cleanly under the center console and the a-bodies are similar in design but as I said it depends on what type of window motors you plan to run.

Do you have a website for "harnessworx"?
building a '73 fbody, interested in learning about this power window harness.
thanks

[H2Ogbodies]

Do you have a website for "harnessworx"?
building a '73 fbody, interested in learning about this power window harness.
thanks

I'm working on an Intuit site at the present time but you can email me for pics/additional info.
[email protected]

[H2Ogbodies]

Here's a 1970 Camaro kit going to Australia I recently built-it uses the Ford style auto down modules. This kit is designed for use with the newer style reverse polarity window motors and is a complete kit-includes IGN control master control sealed 630-series 40A relay, 30A sealed fuse protection, NEW switch and NEW door grommets.

The window kits offered by companies like Classic, Nu-Relics, etc include window motor leads with pigtails so they simply splice to my kit-done. Granted, not as inexpensive as a $60 controller but nobody else offers a factory style harness integration either.