70-81 Camaro/Firebird sway bar comparisons

[F-Body International]

Over the past few weeks a few people local to the Pro-Touring F-Body shop in Illinois have been able to bring together a couple of the aftermarket 70-81 Camaro/Firebird front sway bars for comparison and testing. I, of the bunch, brought my Hotchkis sway bar and someone else brought a ridetech bar to the table. We also had a stock WS6 Trans Am to play with as well. Of the variety at hand, the ridetech and Hotchkis were the hollow type. The Pro-Touring F-Body and GM bars were solid.

For testing, Dave from PTFB (Pro-Touring F-Body) not only did a load capacity measurement, but also a measurement of wheel clearance gained or lost by comparison to a stock WS6 sway bar. For load testing, each bar was strapped to a bench and weight was measured until 1" of deflection was incurred for each individual bar.

The results for load testing @1" deflection came in as follows...

Stock GM - 380lb
Ridetech - 350lb
Hotchkis - 380lb
PTFB - 460lb

Wheel/tire clearance measurements came in as follows...

Stock GM - Standard
Ridetech - 1/2" lost
Hotchkis - 1 1/8" lost
PTFB - 5/8" gained

Here you can see how the Hotchkis sway bar compares to the PTFB high clearance sway bar from a birds-eye view...


Surely after seeing these results, us "car people" are immediately thinking PTFB is the best of this bunch. I'm not writing this to downplay or tout certain brands but this is more for displaying the results of what a group of people found and helping others make informed decisions. Remember, I showed up with my Hotchkis sway bar!

A positive note to make on the hollow Hotchkis and Ridetech bars is that they are indeed lighter. Without putting them on a scale, you can feel the Hotchkis bar is fairly lightweight by comparison to a solid bar. The most positive note to make on the Hotchkis sway bar, is that you get some very nice greaseable bushings for the frame mounts. After speaking with Dave from PTFB on this, he ended making the point that his bushings are high quality American made and low price if there is ever a need for replacement. Here is a comparison picture so you can see what I'm talking about...


The final part in relation to this subjective comparison is the end links. All of the brands seemed to have the similar link system to what GM used. It laughably looks like a few rubber donuts bolted together. PTFB has their 1LE bar which closely relates to the rest of the bunch but they have also stepped up the design in this area with their adjustable sway bar. The end links on the PTFB adjustable bar is, in my opinion, where it shines above all we had to test. Here we can see the Hothckis compared in to the PTFB adjustable end links. Again, the PTFB 1LE, Ridetech, and stock GM use the similar type link as the Hotchkis. Only the adjustable PTFB links are like below...



Hopefully this helps some of you with future decisions and forum debates.

[CampbellshotrodsAZ]

Wow, great comparison! Good to know on the tire clearance, hopefully the PTFB bar isn't too stiff, being near 100 lbs higher than the others, but I guess I'll give it a shot!

[cpd004]

The ridetech sway bar uses Posilink end links. Not what is pictured there. Do you have a pic of the ridetech bar with the others?

[F-Body International]

The ridetech sway bar uses Posilink end links. Not what is pictured there. Do you have a pic of the ridetech bar with the others?

No, I unfortunately did not have the ability for picture comparisons on my end with the Ridetech bar. I donated my Hotchkis bar for testing and purchased the PTFB adjustable bar afterwards so I am able to show these pictures. The pictures you see were strictly by me after the comparison/test was done and I had the parts at home.

The "Posi-Link" that Ridetech offers does look nice by comparison to a stock style end link but it does not offer adjustability like what PTFB has come up with on the adjustable version. You can not only change the height at which the PTFB sway bar is spaced from the control arm, but also slide the link to effectively change the rate of the bar. As mentioned before, PTFB does offer their "1LE" version which has stock style end links like we see with most other aftermarket companies.

I know I'm not as informative as some others on this forum but, again, hopefully this thread helps shed some light on differences between the 2nd Gen F-Body sway bars and helps others with what they're considering. Within the next month, I will be doing a write-up on installing this sway bar along with PTFB's new coil-over front suspension kit.

[cpd004]

The height on the Posilink can be changed.

[Josh@Ridetech]

The ridetech sway bar uses Posilink end links. Not what is pictured there.

You're correct. If the bar is from a really old order it's possible that it has the standard end link with poly bushings. That would have to be VERY old though. We've been using the posi-links with our coilover/air kits for quite some time now.

Also, the new bars that we're shipping use a poly bushing with a delrin insert on the frame bracket which is another really nice addition to it.

[F-Body International]

You're correct. If the bar is from a really old order it's possible that it has the standard end link with poly bushings. That would have to be VERY old though. We've been using the posi-links with our coilover/air kits for quite some time now.

Also, the new bars that we're shipping use a poly bushing with a delrin insert on the frame bracket which is another really nice addition to it.

According to the product picture for the latest ridetech StreetGrip kit, I don't see a Posi-Link. The kit picture on the website shows standard links like what we see on a standard GM, Hotchkis or PTFB 1LE sway bar. This came out this past year and is directly on the page...
http://www.ridetech.com/store/1970-1...ip-system.html



In the previous picture on this thread, the Ridetech Posi-Link is listed as being a part of the individual MuscleBar which is also a part of the Level 3 coil-over suspension kits.

MODERATOR NOTE: Image and link above are to the Ride Tech Street Grip system. Not their "regular" system which uses Posi-Link end links.
Link to RT front bar with Posi-Link ends: http://www.ridetech.com/store/1970-1...nks-front.html

[F-Body International]

Also FYI everyone, I actually had the chance to speak on this subject some more and I want to reiterate that all the load comparisons were done with each sway bar strapped solid to a bench. These are bench test numbers. This means that the weight measurements we see specifically correlate with each bar itself and not the end links. Again, by doing it this way, it eliminated any influence the end link might have for each bar.

If we're to take this thread beyond the bench test, the main factor with this stuff is how it performs on the vehicle. With sticky tires, the 2nd gen front subframe and suspension flexes from chassis load due to turning, acceleration or deceleration. PTFB makes what's called a sway bar brace and in the grand scheme of it all, this is also another area where PTFB improves the car as it relates to sway bars. For all the brands, however, end links definitely highlight how a sway bar is able to react to suspension changes/loads.

I didn't mean to take this thread beyond the sway bar comparisons on a bench but hopefully this helps. Here is a link to the PTFB sway bar brace and a pic. I'm only posting this because it's not a commonly shared part among the performance suspension companies I have listed but it relates and plays an effective overall role in this discussion.
http://www.pro-touringf-body.com/cha...omponents.html

[amargari]

Interesting that the WS6 bar is as stiff or stiffer than the ridetech and Hotchkis bars. I guess the advantage would be weight as they are hollow.

[Skip Fix]

The stock WS6 Trans Am/Formula is 1 1/4 "

[Doug1]

I just installed the coil over front suspension from PTFB, other than waiting on the new LCAs to mount the shocks Dave sent. I can give you a good run down. There are a couple of areas we beefed up to strengthen the upper mount. I'm still not thrilled with the very small bolt that connects the threaded adjuster to the shock mount up top. I don't know if that will hold up to much abuse considering most shock mounts are 1/2 to 3/8 bolts. This connecter is tiny compared to those sizes so I'm not sure it will hold up to much abuse.

[F-Body International]

I just installed the coil over front suspension from PTFB, other than waiting on the new LCAs to mount the shocks Dave sent. I can give you a good run down. There are a couple of areas we beefed up to strengthen the upper mount. I'm still not thrilled with the very small bolt that connects the threaded adjuster to the shock mount up top. I don't know if that will hold up to much abuse considering most shock mounts are 1/2 to 3/8 bolts. This connecter is tiny compared to those sizes so I'm not sure it will hold up to much abuse.

Are you using the stock shock mount to mount the coil-over spring or the newest design from PTFB?

I know a few people have used stock shock mounts in the past to mount a coil-over. This was typical thing you'd see with a QA1 type setup.

The newest PTFB design has an adjustable upper mount and you need to cut out the original mount to install it. It's pretty beefy and reinforces the frame and upper control arm mounts by itself.

[F-Body International]

I just want to bump this thread to the top of the suspension section. I hope that some people who have been accusing me of being a parts pusher on the streetgrip review thread will read this and have different judgement of me. I am not sponsored by anybody and I don't work for anyone that is a sponsor.

[Tpichevy]

Within the next month, I will be doing a write-up on installing this sway bar along with PTFB's new coil-over front suspension kit.

Have you done this write-up yet? I'd like to know more about it

[kimosabi]

To me it shines through that you're a PTFB fan but if their stuff works for you who cares. I always consider a sway bar to be a tuning tool, it's not all about getting the stiffest one IMO. Right now I ride with a stock sway bar up front and none in the rear. Rest of the suspension and chassi is stiffened up and all aftermarket Hotchkis and Customworks. Grips pretty good and so far happy.

[F-Body International]

To me it shines through that you're a PTFB fan but if their stuff works for you who cares. I always consider a sway bar to be a tuning tool, it's not all about getting the stiffest one IMO. Right now I ride with a stock sway bar up front and none in the rear. Rest of the suspension and chassi is stiffened up and all aftermarket Hotchkis and Customworks. Grips pretty good and so far happy.

Yes, I am a PTFB fan for a few reasons beyond brand name. Dave at PTFB actually has some great designs but unfortunately the marketing side of his business is about as bad as it gets. I know him and he even admits that computers and marketing are not his strongpoint. This is where many others beat out PTFB. Things like the adjustable shackles, solid pivot control arms, lightweight auto-cross brakes, and other parts simply are not even shown as they should be online. Heck, the PTFB coil-over kit I and a few others on this forum are doing isn't even listed for sale on the website!

I agree with you on sway bars being a tuning device. Beyond the "what's stronger/weaker" arguments, being able to tune sway bar rate is the whole point of the adjustable PTFB sway bar! I don't know of any other front sway bars on the currently market that have this design. It's pretty much a better version of the old Rancho sway bars. Not many people know about those because they've been out of production for a long time.

[Tpichevy]

I'd like to see the coilovers you're running that are not on his site!

[F-Body International]

I'd like to see the coilovers you're running that are not on his site!

No coil-overs as of yet but here you can see my frame is already welded for the upper coil-over mount. I sent you a PM about this when you asked about my review the other day.



On my frame we're doing a two-position pin design that allows the ride height to be adjusted by moving the spring mounting pin. The benefit of this is being able to make ride height changes without losing spring travel by compressing the spring too much.

A secondary benefit to this setup is that there is a control arm mount reinforcement plate built into the mount. The control arm basically gets extra bracing to the frame with this.

Sorry for the picture not being right. Currently my frame is standing against a wall in my garage. Like mentioned before, I'm also waiting on some of my other parts to be finished.

[rreichert82]

I am installing the coilover on mine as well. I would post some pictures but I can never get them to load on my phone.

[Josh@Ridetech]

According to the product picture for the latest ridetech StreetGrip kit, I don't see a Posi-Link. The kit picture on the website shows standard links like what we see on a standard GM, Hotchkis or PTFB 1LE sway bar. This came out this past year and is directly on the page...
http://www.ridetech.com/store/1970-1...ip-system.html



In the previous picture on this thread, the Ridetech Posi-Link is listed as being a part of the individual MuscleBar which is also a part of the Level 3 coil-over suspension kits.

For some reason, I didn't see where you responded last year...

The StreetGrip kit that you showed just started shipping in January 2017 so it couldn't have been the bar tested (the poly bushing endlinks just now started being an option for those kits). We've used the posi-links on everything else for ~10 years. If you tested a bar with our bar without the posi links, it's either really old or had the endlinks changed at one point.

The coilover/shockwave kits use the bar that is sold standard with posi-links. Previous to the new Streetgrip kit, this was the only bar that we offered for the 2nd gen.