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    Results 1 to 16 of 16
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Mar 2016
      Location
      California, Desert
      Posts
      122
      Country Flag: United States

      74 Camaro Budget Build

      74 Camaro Budget BuildHi Everybody,
      My name is Tim. I bought the 74 Camaro for my sister Hannah for her 18th birthday. It has been four years since then. She wants it set up for road handling, with the back seat, so she can take her family canyon-carving. She is happy with the engine, and would rather see money go into the suspension. She's married now and has a kid on the way. Progress has been slow, and I really want to accelerate this project!

      Condition of the car as purchased:
      -Craigslist Special, $3300.
      -Edelbrock crate engine, 350 hp. Factory style exhaust manifold. Aftermarket loud exhaust, ends before rear axle.
      -3 speed manual Sawginaw transmission.
      -Brakes weak, no parking brake.
      -Suspension is terrible, wheels rub on cornering due to sag.
      -15” 80’s Camaro wheels, actually look pretty good on the car.
      -Body filler covering rust behind wheels and dent in roof. Trunk floor has rust holes. Cabin floor is good.
      -Subframe damage from a wreck prior to purchase.
      -Interior in black, mostly, some plastic pieces in red. New carpet and upholstery. Needs new dash and instrument panel. Needs rear-view mirrors.
      Work done so far:
      -Sanded exterior body and coated with rattle-can dark grey primer. Not quite done yet.
      -Rebuilt rear brakes and flushed system. Parking brake works, braking performance greatly improved.
      -New tires.
      -Removed subframe for repairs.
      Parts purchased:
      -Painless wiring harness.
      -Subframe connectors, bolt-in.
      -Poly bushing kit, Energy Suspension.
      Project goals:
      -Frame-off resto-mod, due to necessary repairs.
      -Upgraded suspension, steering, and chassis strengthening.
      -Fabricate lighter bumpers.
      -Finish interior.
      -5 or 6 speed transmission.
      -Eventually, upgraded brakes and wheels.
      -Eventually, upgrade exhaust manifold, other engine mods.
      Budget:
      Body and paint- 5K
      Suspension, steering, and chassis strengthening- 5K
      Bumpers- 1K
      Interior and gages- 1K
      Transmission- 3K
      Brakes and wheels- 4K
      Engine- 2K

      Total- 21K


      I welcome any questions or comments. Pictures will be coming soon!

      I can't find original pics, but here is the car in progress.
      Attached Images Attached Images          

    2. #2
      Join Date
      Aug 2010
      Location
      Seattle area
      Posts
      360
      There are suspension upgrades that you can do on a budget,And as the money becomes available. is using either factory and or aftermarket parts, I use KYB gas Shocks. F-41 or Z-28 springs. I use a 11/4 front and 7/8 rear anti sway bars, Rubber or grease able sway bar bushings. get the body done and the brakes done first . So the Car is safe to drive .Then go from there.

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Jun 2013
      Posts
      72
      Country Flag: United States
      Welcome to the board, Tim. You're a pretty awesome brother!

      Let me know if you have any questions as far as the suspension ans steering components are concerned.

      We need some pictures!

      Jon Rasmussen
      Hotchkis Performance
      877-466-7655 ext. 224
      [email protected]

      Hotchkis Performance East
      704-660-3060

      Check out our Facebook page!


    4. #4
      Join Date
      Mar 2016
      Location
      California, Desert
      Posts
      122
      Country Flag: United States
      Thanks for the replies. I have brought the factory brakes to normal working condition (see "Work done so far"). Are factory brakes safe enough for now, or are you suggesting I upgrade them before doing other suspension work? My thought was to upgrade to bigger brakes eventually when I can upgrade to larger wheels as well- probably 17". I agree that the body/ frame should be first priority. I want a good foundation to build on. The suspension upgrades you mentioned are the type of things I've been looking at, but I will hold off on purchasing suspension parts till the body is done. Hopefully later today I can post some pictures.

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Mar 2016
      Location
      California, Desert
      Posts
      122
      Country Flag: United States

      Full Body Shots

      The car as it is right now.
      Attached Images Attached Images      

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Sep 2015
      Location
      St Louis, MO
      Posts
      131
      Country Flag: United States
      I think you are way light on the paint and body unless you are planning on doing it yourself. I am going to be in mine for 7k and that is with a body guy that does side work at home. He is doing toe board, front rear quarter right behind the doors, passenger rear quarter, passenger rocker and some small rust hole patches here and there. I got my suspension from pro touring fbody. Dave over there is very helpful and he has very good products at a good price. I would recommend watching the classifieds for some used parts to help your budget. I have had a ton of project creep myself and will be twice your budget with my frame off protouring 79 TA. I would also focus on getting the paint/body work and making all the factory systems function for safety. Most everything else you can change out and bolt on later as budget allows. There are some good post on here with some subframe modifications to do while you have the car apart.

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Aug 2010
      Location
      Seattle area
      Posts
      360
      Just get the paint and body done first I have help my friend with his Muscle Car Supply business .and that was the hardest part of the build. I have seen people quit because of it.(they have seen too many of those tv shows)And then make it safe to drive. Then you can do the upgrades as time and money permit. And you can upgrade the car pretty reasonably by using factory parts . Think Z-28,Trans Am ,F-41 suspension to start.and a good set of gas shocks.
      Attached Images Attached Images    

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Mar 2016
      Location
      California, Desert
      Posts
      122
      Country Flag: United States
      5K may be a bit light, but I am planning on doing the work myself. I have always wanted a garage full of tools, so any equipment I purchase will not be considered part of the build budget. I will admit up front that I am not a welder or a painter, but I really want to learn. I am patient and detail oriented, so I think I will be able to pick up the skills. I expect some cost creep, which is why I set my budget goals a bit light. I'm trying to discipline myself to not fall snare to expensive upgrades, especially before the basics are taken care of. I am new to forums, so I have a question. If I want to start getting into details of repairs needed, should I start a new thread, or continue here?

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Mar 2016
      Location
      California, Desert
      Posts
      122
      Country Flag: United States
      Project Update, pending work:

      It has been a while, I know, but I now have funds to move this project. I am abroad, which means I am limited to online research and shopping till I get home at the end of March, 2018. There has also been a slight change to my plans. The car has been sitting in my parent's garage, and they are wanting to move soon, so when I get home I need to get the car out of their garage. As of now, the subframe is removed from the car and all the suspension/steering components are disassembled. The car and engine are both up on blocks, so the car can't be moved without the subframe back in. What this means is that I will need to get the car road-worthy without regard toward appearance. Body and paint will have to wait. I will do only what is necessary to get the car on the road, because I will only have one month. Fortunately, I will not be working while home, so, hopefully, I can put a lot of hours into the project.

      The subframe needs some attention. I will need to get a welder. The front bushing mounts are rusted out to an odd shape. I've seen repairs for this issue using a large washer welded in. The factory welds on the sf look like bird crap. On some of the seams the weld doesn't even touch both sides for half a foot or so. I would like to re-weld those areas. I measured across the sf to see if it is square and it seems about 1/4" out. I will just have to work with it. I may be able to tweak it by my placement of the welded-on washers, as long as the a-arm mounts are square. That reminds me, the lower right a-arm mount is bent. To acomodate, the shim stack on the upper on that side was over an inch thick! (Sorry no pictures. I took pictures of all this at one time and somehow they got deleted.) The reason I checked the sf for square was because of damage on the body leading me to believe that the car had been in an accident. The right/ rear sf mount on the body is mashed upward, showing that the sf had been pushed back by a hard impact. I measured across the hood opening and it showed an inch out of square. Some clever gapping on the hood hid the fact that it was all out of shape. I also really didn't know what I was looking at when I got the car 5 years ago. I have learned a lot, the hard way, since. I am as stubborn now as I was ignorant then, so I'm not giving up!

      I will need to fix the body on that right/ rear mount. The cage on the nut is bent up. I guess I will need to cut into the area to repair it, and then weld a patch over the hole. I think I will cut out from the bottom? Not sure yet.

      Parts to purchase/ install:

      Suspension:
      Shocks and springs
      Improved geometry upper control arms (The nuts are welded onto the cross-shafts, and the bushings are shot, aught as well upgrade, right?)
      I will reuse the old lca's with new bushings
      Upper and lower ball joints
      Sway bars, front and rear
      Steering rebuild kit, faster steering box, possibly upgraded pump
      I will reuse stock spindles and brakes, for now, may upgrade later with new wheels

      Interior:
      Wiring Harness (Painless, already purchased)
      Gauge cluster
      Dash pad or panel
      New seatbelt, drivers side
      Install rear view mirror (already have it)

      Exterior:
      Reinstall the front bumper
      Mirrors, left and right
      Weather Seals
      Maybe some sanding and black primer to get the rest of the body to match what I've done so far.

      Man, this is looking like a lot to do in one month!

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Oct 2017
      Posts
      116
      Good to see you are fixin to attack it again..... That is a LOT to get done. Nose to the grindstone seems an appropriate phrase right now.
      Good luck to you buddy, I'll be following.

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Mar 2016
      Location
      California, Desert
      Posts
      122
      Country Flag: United States
      Another update:

      I have bought a refreshed and modded sub-frame set up for PTFB coilovers. It solves my sub-frame issues, as well as providing a really good suspension for the price. I'm getting the rest of the suspension, steering components, brakes, and chassis bracing from PTFB. I just checked my original post to see how close I'm coming to my budget. My focus has shifted slightly toward a more aggressive autocross setup. My original budget was 5K for suspension and chassis, and 4K for wheels and brakes. I'm currently at about 10K, and still don't have wheels. I don't think this is too bad, though, considering that the sub-frame I bought should keep me from having to buy a welder for now, and neither of those were in the budget.

      For wheels, PTFB Dave advised me to go with Vision 143 wheels in size 18x9.5, 0 offset, 5.25 bs. He said I may need 1/4" spacers. At $140/ wheel, the Vision 143 is hard to beat. It is also very difficult to find any other style wheels in 18x9.5 with the right offset and bolt pattern. There are similar wheels offered by other companies, but they cost slightly more and have a lower load rating. At $560 for a set, these wheels are the obvious choice, and yet I am struggling.

      When I first brought the Camaro home and started poking around under it, I met with a number of black widows. I thought it would be a good idea to use a spider bomb to clear out the population. I never got around to it, but I did get the idea to use that for the car's nick-name. "Spider Bomb". My sister Hannah, for whom I was building the car, does not like spiders, and did not like the name. Then I thought we should call it "Black Widow", which has more positive connotations to my sister, who is a bit of a Marvel buff, so the idea stuck. More recently I was considering what wheels to get and thought it would be cool to get 8 spoke wheels to go with the arachnid theme. I then discovered minilite style wheels, which are gorgeous, and have ties to 2nd gen Camaro racing history. Since then, I've had my heart set on them.

      Team III offers them in 18", which I will need to clear the steering arm in the desired width. Those are also my favorite rendition of the wheels. Some people may think that the flat center such as Trans Am Engineering offer are better because they are more true to history. However, these types of 8 spoke wheels lend themselves better to 4 lug designs, such as old Porsche's. On a 5 bolt, the holes cut into some of the spokes a bit. On Team III's design, there is separation of the bolt pattern and the spokes by a rim around the center of the wheel. (CWW's also have this feature, but the spokes are straight rather than curved, making them slightly less graceful. More importantly, they are only offered in 17" sizes).This also helps with the porportions of the wheel in larger sizes. Have you ever noticed how Torque Thrust style 5 spoke or 6 spoke wheels in larger sizes look gaudy, like chunky jewelry? The spokes get really wide. The visual bulk is off-putting. In contrast, Team III's LT3 spokes appear agile and sporty. They are not only smaller due to the fact that there are more of them, but they also start further out from center and have less distance to go as they widen out, so they don't get nearly as wide.

      Now, back to the Vision 143's. Here is a wheel that has ten spokes that are thin, which helps give the wheel a sporty look, while still being vintage-looking. Moreover, a ten spoke pattern lends itself more naturally to the 5 bolt pattern. Every-other spoke gets a lug. Nice. Except it isn't. The wheels are an eye sore. Every time I looked at them I tried to appreciate the virtues of the design, but something seemed a bit off. Then I realized what's wrong with them. They can't make up their mind what they are. Are they a split 5 spoke, or an evenly spaced 10 spoke? Nope. Neither. You will notice that the spacing is different between every-other spoke. It's only slight, and you almost won't notice it. But you will, and when you do, it's annoying. At such a good deal, I want to like these wheels. But, as it turns out, just because something is a classic, doesn't mean it's good. This is just my opinion, but I hope I ruin these wheels for as many people as possible. I hate them. Mostly because they were almost so good. $560 might be a good deal for wheels that function, but for me, it's $560 too much.

      This leaves me with the Team III option. They are the cheapest 8 spoke that will fit my car in 18x9.5. They are $500 a wheel. As wheels go, this isn't ridiculous. All the other options in 18" 8 spoke wheels are forged, and start at $750, or higher. It bugs me a little bit that there are NO options between $140 and $500 in the size I need, but the LT3's are my favorite wheel, and I would probably get them anyway.

      I'm getting close to making a decision on this. Thoughts, anyone?

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Mar 2016
      Location
      California, Desert
      Posts
      122
      Country Flag: United States
      For comparison...

      Here is the Vision 143 Wheel:Name:  Vision 143 Wheel.jpg
Views: 559
Size:  105.9 KB
      The Torque Thrust:Name:  Torque Thrust Wheel.jpg
Views: 636
Size:  138.1 KB
      The CCW minilites:Name:  8 spoke Camaro 3.jpg
Views: 806
Size:  279.4 KB
      And my favorite, the Team III LT3's:Name:  Team3LT3_17x8F5bs18x9.5R5.75bsCamaro.jpg
Views: 860
Size:  228.9 KB

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Dec 2010
      Location
      Fredericksburg, VA.
      Posts
      3,155
      Country Flag: United States
      Please start a project thread in the "Project Updates" section.
      Steve Hayes
      "Dust Off"
      68 Camaro

      Given sufficient initial acceleration, even pigs can fly!

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Mar 2016
      Location
      California, Desert
      Posts
      122
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by TheJDMan View Post
      Please start a project thread in the "Project Updates" section.
      Ya, I was just thinking about that...

      This thread started out as an introduction. I guess it's hard to know when to switch over, but now seems like as good a time as any. Will start a new thread soon.

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Mar 2016
      Location
      California, Desert
      Posts
      122
      Country Flag: United States
      Ok, one final post on this thread before I move on entirely to the project updates section for the rest of the build. I wanted to respond to my own comment above. I think I spoke strongly enough about the Vision 143 wheel that I revolted against my own statement. "Hate" is a strong word. The Vision 143 is still not my favorite wheel, but I don't really have anything against it. I think I get what the original designer of the style was going for. Moreover, I have known in my head that this wheel was the logical choice. I just had to get my heart to agree with my mind.

      While I was contemplating which wheel to go with, I meandered around on the forums, filling my mind with random bits of wisdom. I landed a build thread, and found myself inspired by the creative fabrication. That kind of stuff really speaks to me, and I remembered that I do have some big dreams for the Camaro. Yes, I am doing a budget build for now, but there is a method to all this. You see, I don't just want to fabricate, I want to fabricate well. I want to build for function, and racing is the proving grounds of function. This means that I need to learn racing and tuning. Once I am able to get a firm grasp on the principles of performance, I can create from that knowledge. Knowledge comes from learning. Learning from mistakes, and mistakes cost money. I'm trying to keep the overhead costs of my education down, so that I will have funding to continue learning.

      For now, I will use the Vision 143 wheels. They are not my ideal wheel, but I'm doing this on purpose. It is to save money, for sure, but also to remind me that I'm not done. I don't want to give up on my dreams. If I were to buy the beautiful LT3's, it would actually make me reluctant to make changes. If I needed to go wider in the future, I would have to replace that investment, which at 2K, is significant. In comparison, a $560 set of wheels seems almost disposable. Tires are a consumable item, and I paid double the cost of the 143's on my BFG Rivals. Furthermore, seeing the wrong number of spokes on my arachnid-themed car will remind me that the car isn't done yet, that I'm not done learning yet, and that a good dream is worth waiting and working for.

      This build will be continued on this thread:

      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...ct-Black-Widow

      Thanks to all for your support and helpful comments!

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Aug 2007
      Location
      Jonesboro, Arkansas
      Posts
      2,506
      Country Flag: United States
      Judging from the first pics, I think with a little buffing it should polish right up! LOL Welocme, and keep us informed.


      Carl Wilson
      1968 Camaro - T-56 6 speed - 383 Stroker, 2014 Mustang GT seats. FiTech EFI, Tanks Inc. Tank with Deutschwerks fuel pump.






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