EPA Seeks to Prohibit Conversion of Vehicles Into Racecars. Appears legit.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

I'm no lawyer and don't claim to understand government interaction in our daily lives, but whether or not a big or small group would be effected by this enforcing, giving the EPA any power to regulate our hobby would restrict racing in the future to some degree and lets them get a foot in the door for even further regulation. From an outside looking in point of view politics should be renamed powertrips and he who has the most power to regulate wins.

Does the minority of guys that race once a month really have a radical effect on the pollution in the air? No where near the level of pollution that comes from the many cars that drive everyday. But that latter group is too big to really put a thumb on. Regulating who they can is a start, and gives them more momentum and control in the future. Yes? If they can say a race car has to have a bone stock engine and emissions equipment, then street cars will be next my magic crystal ball suggests.

My 79 Cutlass came with a cat which "fell off" many moons ago. My son's 78 Cutlass came with a cat and an air pump, both also fell off. So despite our area of the country not requiring an emissions test, it seems according to the EPA neither car should be legal to drive on the road or a race track.

What about late model race cars? According to what I've read even reflashing the computer because you changed your exhaust system or cam or whatever is illegal. Imagine what people are doing with late model muscle cars to run in certain race classes. Apparently already every bit illegal and the vehicle's owners at any point could be fined. What??

I reiterate what has been said, if this wasn't something we should be concerned about then why is SEMA getting involved in a very active way? My guess is it's costly for them to get involved so if they're willing to spend the cash and time to push back against the EPA then we should probably keep an eye on it too, whether our cars are dedicated race cars or not.

I signed the petition as well, I prefer dogs over cats and so does my car. Speedtech as a group supports SEMA's decision to make sure the EPA's intentions won't lead to restricting what we do.

[j-c-c]

Trying to be delicate here, but I would think anybody trying to get attention in South Carolina in the next week, would find a very agreeable and attentive audience/voting block if they took a public stand on EPA expanding their arbitrary rulings, again. Somebody needs to make this case to candidates, which would then get national exposure quickly and easily, and the EPA would back away from an uproar, looking for greener pastures, IMO. Its still about politics, no matter how much logic is sought here.

[parsonsj]

Just guessing, but I think the EPA is trying to shut down that old loophole manufacturers have used for decades: "This product may be used on off road vehicles only".

It does seem as if it could have quite the chilling effect on the car enthusiast market / hobby.

[hotrodalex]

Trying to be delicate here, but I would think anybody trying to get attention in South Carolina in the next week, would find a very agreeable and attentive audience/voting block if they took a public stand on EPA expanding their arbitrary rulings, again. Somebody needs to make this case to candidates, which would then get national exposure quickly and easily, and the EPA would back away from an uproar, looking for greener pastures, IMO. Its still about politics, no matter how much logic is sought here.

It's too bad Rand Paul dropped out of the race already, because he'd have a field day with it.

[parsonsj]

My 79 Cutlass came with a cat which "fell off" many moons ago. My son's 78 Cutlass came with a cat and an air pump, both also fell off. So despite our area of the country not requiring an emissions test, it seems according to the EPA neither car should be legal to drive on the road or a race track.

That's obviously illegal today. Everybody knows you can't legally remove emissions equipment.

According to what I've read even reflashing the computer because you changed your exhaust system or cam or whatever is illegal. Imagine what people are doing with late model muscle cars to run in certain race classes.

Again, all of us (should) know that's illegal. And has been for a long time. Most of us ignore that, and few are caught outside of California, but it is illegal.

[hotrodalex]

LeMons asked a lawyer to clarify the proposed changes.

Here's his take: http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/image...m_medium=email

[TheJDMan]

My initial interpretation was that the EPA wanted to close the loophole whereby an aftermarket manufacturer could sell a performance part so long as it was labeled for "Off Road Use Only". That paper makes it sound much worse. By making it illegal to remove any emissions equipment regardless of street or competition use that means that no aftermarket carbs, intakes, headers, cams or virtually any aftermarket performance engine part would be legal for use on either street cars or racecars. Not only would it be illegal to install by the user, but the aftermarket manufacturers would be fined for making these parts in the first place. In addition, it would appear to make engine swaps illegal as well since swapping an engine would, by definition, mean you are also changing the emission system of the car.

I applaud SEMA for bringing this proposed legislation to light!

JOIN the SEMA Action Network!
http://semasan.com/page.asp?content=startpage&g=semaga

[79-TA]

in case anyone missed the petition link in the first page:

Whatever your interpretation of the law is, it definitely means some sort of change, and likely some change that makes it harder for this hobby to continue.
There is a petition here that I encourage you all to sign:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...les-racecars-0

Hot Rod has already written two articles on the topic, followed by an article talking about how the 2018 Hellcats will be TT V6's. Not to sound cliché, but the end of the V8's sounds near.

[Ben@SpeedTech]

SEMA has made an official clarification, I got it today in my SEMA news email. Sounds like they see this as a serious threat to our industry and they feel the EPA is out of bounds in what they're doing. I don;t think this should be taken likely at all. Again I propose this is a foot in the door to pose more regulation in the future. How boring will it be to see a stock 180 hp G body running down the drag strip. Mine ran 17.9's stock, that's >cough< cool.

Click here to read the article...

SEMA Myth/Fact write up

[Ben@SpeedTech]

That's obviously illegal today. Everybody knows you can't legally remove emissions equipment.

Again, all of us (should) know that's illegal. And has been for a long time. Most of us ignore that, and few are caught outside of California, but it is illegal.

Yes, but up till now it has at least for me been different. Salt Lake City area where I used to live is a big valley surrounded by mountains and has a smog problem so they do emissions testing. With the age of my 1979 car by Utah's regulations if it could pass emissions testing, which the exhaust emissions was a little more lenient on older cars, even with all the emissions equipment removed the law states that the testing shop has to report that the equipment is gone but it still passes the sniffer test, and it's totally legal to drive. I now live in an area of Utah that doesn't require an emissions test on any car so no holds barred and I'm putting my ex full drag race car's motor in my daily driver/ autoX car. I realize that this current issue is with dedicated race cars, but if enforced, it's that much easier to enforce putting these parts on street cars too. By doing the engine swap In essence I'm now bettering my chances of of getting busted and fined at a race or possibly in the future just driving down the road, should the EPA show up and enforce this. That sure makes me excited about building a performance vehicle and the future of our hobby, yeah, no.

This is why we need to take this seriously and oppose any power and control the EPA is trying to usurp. Put a leash on them now and it'll be easier to negotiate things in the future. Give them full control now and it's only a matter of time before there are is so much regulation red tape to jump through to continue what we love doing. At that point it may not be worth it unless you drive a pre emissions vehicle and we all know those are becoming more rare and/or are out of the funding reach of many enthusiasts. Trends are moving towards the 75 + Novas and Camaros and G bodies and Fox mustangs and... all of which came standard with smog equip and (are) will be illegal to modify the engine system in any way whatsoever. Now how cool is that?

From what I'm seeing is that the EPA will likely target parts manufacturers rather than show up at a race and inspect cars while handing out thousands of $ in fines (for now), but even if they only shut down production of emissions voiding parts it all trickles down to race and street performance enthusiasts in a big way. This won't put a stop to just modified race cars, it'll put a stop to modified street cars too. As I said before I see this as a foot in the door to put a big hamper on our hobby in the future.

[gator68428]

Just guessing, but I think the EPA is trying to shut down that old loophole manufacturers have used for decades: "This product may be used on off road vehicles only".

It does seem as if it could have quite the chilling effect on the car enthusiast market / hobby.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner folks! Think of what this means for aftermarket parts makers??? Almost every part I buy says this on it. The EPA stipulated that an automobile can no longer ever be considered an off road vehicle. The implications of this are HUGE for any parts maker, enthusiast, small business (race shops etc.) and all of their families and the positive economic impact. EVERY SINGLE person and sponsor on this forum should VERY MUCH CARE about this blatant over-reach by the EPA. I commend SEMA for stepping in on this very important issue.

Sign any petition you can. Stand up for what is fair (to enthusiasts, small businesses, aftermarket car part industry and their families) and reasonable (relatively microscopic amount of pollution emitted from racing autos) in this great country of ours that was built by we the people who intend to ensure our government's regulations remain prudent and not misguided by faulty ill conceived aspects of a broader seemingly well intentioned political agenda.

[parsonsj]

Sign any petition you can. Stand up for what is fair (to enthusiasts, small businesses, aftermarket car part industry and their families) and reasonable (relatively microscopic amount of pollution emitted from racing autos) in this great country of ours that was built by we the people who intend to ensure our government remains prudent and not misguided by politcal agendas.

(emphasis added) I'm on our side in this. I, too, think our hobby/businesses aren't a real problem with any significant effect on the environment, and that the EPA should worry about bigger fish (like the coal industry, for example).

However, I must point out that you're advocating a political agenda as well. I'm not criticizing, but noting that preventing this step by the EPA will take political power from all of us.

[gator68428]

(emphasis added) I'm on our side in this. I, too, think our hobby/businesses aren't a real problem with any significant effect on the environment, and that the EPA should worry about bigger fish (like the coal industry, for example).

However, I must point out that you're advocating a political agenda as well. I'm not criticizing, but noting that preventing this step by the EPA will take political power from all of us.

Semantics my friend. I tried to leave it concise and expected my fellow car friends would give me the benefit of the doubt. But just for you I clarified.

[LemonTwisted]

LeMons asked a lawyer to clarify the proposed changes.

Here's his take: http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/image...m_medium=email

That's a very good read. Sounds like it also applies to newer engines being installed in older vehicles. The year of the engine would dictate what emissions equipment would be required to be legal!?! I wonder what rules would apply to crate engines, would they require the full emissions equipment such as evap systems and cats that the engines were originally designed to be used with to be legal.

[gator68428]

That's a very good read. Sounds like it also applies to newer engines being installed in older vehicles. The year of the engine would dictate what emissions equipment would be required to be legal!?! I wonder what rules would apply to crate engines, would they require the full emissions equipment such as evap systems and cats that the engines were originally designed to be used with to be legal.

Ding Ding Ding! Another winner folks!

See this as well:
https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2016...campaign=eNews

[LS6 Tommy]

What amazes me about the EPA is the blatant overextension of power they have been granted. As originally planned, the EPA was an ADVISORY branch of the Government. As such it could not legally make law. Only Congress can make law. Unfortunately, somewhere along the line some empty suit politicians decided it would be a good idea to extend the power of Law to the EPA.

Tommy

[Bugzilla]

Signed. At 135,000 signatures right now. Looks like we are going to blow away the 100,000 needed!

[parsonsj]

just for you I clarified.

No clarification needed! I was just pointing out that political initiatives can only be defeated by other political movements, and this thread is part of that. It's all good.

Keep signing those petitions to fuel our own political agenda, because that's the best way to deflect the EPA on to other things that won't affect our hobby and businesses.

[HandOverFist]

(emphasis added) I'm on our side in this. I, too, think our hobby/businesses aren't a real problem with any significant effect on the environment, and that the EPA should worry about bigger fish (like the coal industry, for example).

However, I must point out that you're advocating a political agenda as well. I'm not criticizing, but noting that preventing this step by the EPA will take political power from all of us.

Yeah...pile on the coal industry some more. How many families/communities have been devastated from that mind set....

[camrat68]

Tampering ie- Anything that increases emissions especially by "volume" such as head or cam or exhaust work. I've seen this exact problem in the arena of firearms where legality can hinge on the simple placement of a comma within the legislation.

Recently I had to replace the exhaust on my 95 Caprice. I bought headers as well as high flow cats for the car a decade ago from a company that no longer exists. Due to daily driving this car in the Midwest, the exhaust rusted to the point of needing to be replaced. Specifically one of the cats. The exhaust shop couldn't touch it due to the cat not being stock. EPA rules. Luckily I kept the stock cats for the muffler shop to re-install. Not so fast--According to EPA rule, the ORIGINAL cats weren't legal to re-install according to the muffler shop. The situation is dealt with but I have no idea where I stand legally. It has cats in an area that emissions testing is not required.

If you think it doesn't affect you, you're in for a rude awakening. The EPA is searching for the limits we will allow. They did it in the arena of guns and ammunition recently and were beaten down for it. Now they're trying it for the automotive arena.

Jim