More new efi systems from holley

[Bowtie racing]

Anybody saw these at sema?

http://youtu.be/oZKXaWfcmBM

[weircc]

I cant get my first terminator to work!!

[Windycity1]

They must have bought out Fitech.

[HandOverFist]

They must have bought out Fitech.

Nope...just bought one. Holley is johnny come lately to the party.

[Bowtie racing]

Sniper is really close to FITech, would like to see detailed side by side comparison between the two.

[yellow1098Greg]

And only $1,000!

[andrewb70]

I cant get my first terminator to work!!

What seems to be the problem?

Andrew

[WallaceMFG]

I stopped and looked at these while I was there, it's a very nice looking piece. They do look eerily similar to the FiTech units with very similar design features. They both have the annular discharge rings, makes me wonder who came up with it first. Boost capable up to 2 BAR, all sensors built in. fuel pressure regulator built in as well. 1200 HP version to come a little later.

From what the sales guy told me about it, it will be using a slightly simplified version of the HP EFI software for people who want to mess with the tune, otherwise it's self tuning.

I had been pretty much sold on the FiTech unit (which I also saw at SEMA, also a nice piece), but now I'm not sure which I would pick. The Holley is a little more expensive, but from what I can tell the software will be better than the FiTech. Guess I'll have to choose when the time comes.

[sccacuda]

Think Quick Fuel, not FITech. Holley owns Quick Fuel...

[HandOverFist]

Think Quick Fuel, not FITech. Holley owns Quick Fuel...

"Acquired"...

[dirty rick]

CFI (Centralized fuel injection) does not work well, Ford used it back in the 80's, you won't see it on anything new due to it limitations (drawbacks).

I would guess that high horsepower systems would be very edgy due to fuel distribution issues. This is why Pro Stockers did not want anyone to see their carbs and intakes. The amount of engineering to get fuel distribution matched on all 8 cylinders is ridiculous.

Many will say "Oh I'm not going to make that much power" but power levels are not the only area this comes into play. Poor fuel distribution will cause lean misfires as well as rich cylinders, this throws exhaust sensors into hysterics snowballing the problem to all cylinders. The real bitch is the issue is not consistent, other factors come into play which makes it difficult (x10) to correct for and in the end CFI sucks.

Another factor is breathing, you are not going to get as much wet air in a cylinder as you will dry. Imagine what happens to that wet air when it has to make the corners present with a CFI system!
Imagine what happens when you add a lumpy cam to this equation!

Port injection is vastly superior to any CFI solution. Also they show just the injector unit (this is a trick), there is lots more to it that just the injector. The fuel system has to be built and O2 sensors installed, on many cars this is the hard part not what sits on top of the motor. You can spend just as much as the price of a CFI for just a fuel tank configured for EFI. Making a 1000hp on a Dyno is a lot different than making even 500hp while turning corners!

So my point is why spend all that money to stick it in half way? Only to discover it's not Scarlet, she's wearing a mask!

BTDT, looking back for you

[andrewb70]

CFI (Centralized fuel injection) does not work well, Ford used it back in the 80's, you won't see it on anything new due to it limitations (drawbacks).

I would guess that high horsepower systems would be very edgy due to fuel distribution issues. This is why Pro Stockers did not want anyone to see their carbs and intakes. The amount of engineering to get fuel distribution matched on all 8 cylinders is ridiculous.

Many will say "Oh I'm not going to make that much power" but power levels are not the only area this comes into play. Poor fuel distribution will cause lean misfires as well as rich cylinders, this throws exhaust sensors into hysterics snowballing the problem to all cylinders. The real bitch is the issue is not consistent, other factors come into play which makes it difficult (x10) to correct for and in the end CFI sucks.

Another factor is breathing, you are not going to get as much wet air in a cylinder as you will dry. Imagine what happens to that wet air when it has to make the corners present with a CFI system!
Imagine what happens when you add a lumpy cam to this equation!

Port injection is vastly superior to any CFI solution. Also they show just the injector unit (this is a trick), there is lots more to it that just the injector. The fuel system has to be built and O2 sensors installed, on many cars this is the hard part not what sits on top of the motor. You can spend just as much as the price of a CFI for just a fuel tank configured for EFI. Making a 1000hp on a Dyno is a lot different than making even 500hp while turning corners!

So my point is why spend all that money to stick it in half way? Only to discover it's not Scarlet, she's wearing a mask!

BTDT, looking back for you

All true, however, the intended target market for the Sniper system does not cares about what you wrote above. The person buying a Sniper system wants better drivability and fuel efficiency than a carburetor, and this system will deliver on that. They also want to be able to keep their current intake manifold and retain a traditional look.

Andrew

[HandOverFist]

That was very diplomatic Andrew...I would have called it a rant without merit lol.

[andrewb70]

That was very diplomatic Andrew...I would have called it a rant without merit lol.

LOL....thanks. As a moderator I can't be going around stirring the pot too much. However, it does get frustrating when people don't seem to understand basic marketing concepts like "different products for different target markets." Value is a subjective construct and thus there is no point in arguing as to what is "the best" when we all have differing preferences.

Andrew

[Bowtie racing]

All true, however, the intended target market for the Sniper system does not cares about what you wrote above. The person buying a Sniper system wants better drivability and fuel efficiency than a carburetor, and this system will deliver on that. They also want to be able to keep their current intake manifold and retain a traditional look.

Andrew

Spot on.

What bothers me is lack of details of sniper. It must use O2 sensor due self learning.

[HandOverFist]

Spot on.

What bothers me is lack of details of sniper. It must use O2 sensor due self learning.

You can get a better overview at FiTech... http://www.fitechefi.com/

[andrewb70]

Spot on.

What bothers me is lack of details of sniper. It must use O2 sensor due self learning.

From what I can tell, the Sniper has the ECU mounted inside the throttle body itself. This leads me to believe that it uses a new, lower cost ECU. Holley's other throttle body injection system uses the HP ECU which is probably way overkill for a basic TBI system. This new ECU must also have a wideband sensor, because that is really the only way to do safe self-tuning.

Andrew

[WallaceMFG]

Another interesting thought is that there will be a 1200 Hp version of the Sniper EFI while the Terminator is still limited to 600 Hp unless you run multiple throttle bodies. If it really will support that much power it would be a cheap EFI system that allows higher HP than the Terminator, although with less tuning available.

[hifi875]

I got one of the first terminators from Holley when they came out and it works great. They have great tech support also

[Twentyover]

All true, however, the intended target market for the Sniper system does not cares about what you wrote above. The person buying a Sniper system wants better drivability and fuel efficiency than a carburetor, and this system will deliver on that. They also want to be able to keep their current intake manifold and retain a traditional look.

Andrew

The older I get, the more I realize i'm getting older. And cranky and opinionated and probably just plain mean, too.

I have a 70 Camaro SBC with en Edelbrock Pro-flow. Like the fact that it looks like an engine SHOULD, with the TB and air cleaner centered on top of the engine. Not a big fan of the fuel rails, but I'm willing to live with it.

Brother and I are working on an 65 elCamino w/ a Trailblazer LS2. Hated the intake, switched to a car intake. Don't hate it, but don't like it either. No carb lookin' thing on it. Can't talk Dave down any further than that.

I'm working on another two projects, a VG30 Nissan, changing the FI out for a Weber 38DGES. won't run as smooth as the FI, but will look right. Also working on a Ford 200 inch inline 6 (WHAAAA?), planning on 6 bike carbs hanging off the side.

That will look right.

Some things you do because they offer a clear improvement. Some things you do for love. Some things you just do.


Hey- you kids- GET OFFA MY LAWN