Who's still running a SBC ?

[70TWO NOVA]

Curious who is running a small block Chevy in their pro touring car. Either carbed or FI and how it does in the PT duties (road trips, corner carving, driving around town, auto x etc). Seems there is more and more pressure to swap in an LS motor nowadays and I'd like to hear some stories against that argument

[1BADBET]

ALL engines are air pumps so as far as manners on the street and performance at the track goes it's all about how the motors built not what it says on the valve cover. When it comes to power per dollar nothing beats an old school small block!!!..... Except maybe a big block lol. The money you save can go towards more power and performance. Carb vs efi I'd go carb all the way. They're just easier and cheaper then you can spend moooore money on performance! You can build a carb motor with street manners and just as reliable as any FI system. You might give up some MPG and idle quality but in a hot rod who cares about either of those things.

[WallaceMFG]

Got a small block in the Chevelle with an old Holley carb. Motor does great in the car, always starts easy, plenty of power for autocross. I have no complaints with my motor at this point.

Going to put EFI on in the future, and hopefully someday pull it out and rebuild it for boost and some twin turbos. BUT, if I had an unlimited budget I'd be calling Hendrick Racing for an R07 NASCAR motor haha

[TheJDMan]

I'm running a 383 stroker based on a 1st gen 4 bolt main 350 block with all sorts of goodies including all forged Scat rotating assembly, Edelbrock hydraulic roller cam, RHS 210 aluminum raised port heads and MSD Atomic throttle body EFI all adding up to about 530hp. Building from a bare block still cost me significantly less then the cost of an LS conversion. I don't feel I give up anything to LS guys in terms of drivability including my T56 Magnum and old school Z-bar clutch. The engine is a bit lopy at idle but will cruise all day long as smooth as any LS and I can drive in stop and go city traffic in 100 deg weather without overheating. There were many sleepless nights thinking about what engine to go with but in the end it was just too economical to not go with the SBC. The ONLY downside is that I cannot attend LS Fest, Oh well.

[Motobrewmaster]

I am running an old school SBC 355. Simple stuff actually, steel heads (Bowtie II's) matching Vic Jr intake, Holley carb, 11.5:1 an aggressive cam and some decent stuff inside for spinning around. No idea of power but guessing about 400ish at the wheels. It fits my current budget and gets the job done for now. Idles decent (sounds great) and is very streetable. Once I put together the electric fan setup she keeps cool even in stop and go traffic during the summer.

I have had to do a few things to get the carb to deal with the higher g-forces due to cornering and braking. Seems the old Holleys (Dbl pumper) were not exactly ready out of the box to deal with those things. I would also consider lowering the CR as the timing is backed off to run 93 and have to run high octane to allow full timing when playing hard.

Once I start doing more auto crossing and track days it might become the weak link...but will wait and see if that is the case or not.

[rchaskin]

My car is a "stage 1" PT car.
DSE bolt on suspension, Coils and leaf springs, ridetech adj shocks, quick steering box, Bear brakes.

I use it for everything.
I drive it to work everyday it is not raining, I cruise it, I drag it (12.80 1/4 mile), and I autocross it.

Ive got a GM crate. I bought a used "604" race motor.
This is basically a ZZ6.
350, Full Roller, Fastburn Heads, Forged 4 bolt bottom end.
I did a cam swap and put a comp XR 282 in it.
It has a Bill Mitchell Hardcore 750 carb on it.
I would say its got like 425hp.

The rest of the drivetrain is Mcleod Clutch, LT1 style T56, Big 10 with 3.73s.

This thing does awesome.
Not the fastest, but it puts a grin on my face everytime I crank it.

The only downsides are cold starts and mileage.
It has got 15mpg once, but it is typically 10-12.

I would like to add some cubes, and go with a Terminator setup.

Take a look at my vids. There are a little bit of everything in there.

[70TWO NOVA]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Im currently running a 355 sbc in my Nova. About 9.5:1 alum knock off heads, decent cam and just installed FI (microsquirt). Although I still have quite a bit of tuning to do I occasionally feel like it still lacks the street manners that the LS engine have. (my dad has an LS swapped 80 Camaro) I hate to ditch such a reliable and time tested engine and appreciate the motivation you guys give to keep it.

[minendrews68]

I'm running a carbureted 383 stroker with roller, forged internals, and Holley carb. I'm liking mine.

[70TWO NOVA]

My real goal with my drivetrain 355/th350 is to have decent power (not looking for 800hp), nice idle, something that doesnt overheat in traffic, cruises nice on long trips (currently turning 3400rpm at 65mph :( ) and can take the abuse of occasional auto x racing. I know that is asking a lot of any engine lol but unfortuanley the way it is now does nothing but discourage me from driving it.

[TheJDMan]

Brian,
I hope you don't mind, but I have to comment based on your last statement about being discouraged about cruising on long trips. A lot of people these days are making the change from 3 and 4 speed direct drive transmissions to newer 5 and 6 speed overdrives both manual and auto while retaining the early SBC/BBC engines. Going from a 4 speed to a 6 speed OD, I can't even begin to adequately describe how dramatic of an improvement the OD transmission makes to the overall drivability of the car with the same SBC. To be honest, I think a large percentage of the improved drivability claims attributed to LS engine swaps is actually the result of to the fact that virtually all LS conversions I have read about also include some form of OD transmission. When you stop and think about it, when was the last time you heard of someone installing an LS engine and a 4 speed?

Before, with my ST10 4 speed I was running a 3.55 rear gear and you were well over 3000rpm at 65mph and that was really pushing the comfortable cruise limit. Cruising long distances with the 4 speed was just not enjoyable or fuel efficient. Now with the installation of the T56 Magnum with a .80 5th and .63 6th OD and a 3.89 rear gear, I can comfortably cruise at 60mph in 5th at 2500rpm or 70 in 6th at 2500 all day long while getting a solid 19+mpg.

I really feel like your best move would be to keep your existing SBC and install some form of an OD transmission either manual or auto. I think an OD trans swap offers you a greater potential for improved drivability than an LS engine swap.

[Twentyover]

Sounds to me like you have more tuning development time needed.

And it's really not asking alot for a pleasant high performance SBC- I have a ZZ4 in a 70 Camaro w/ an early Edelbrock Pro Flow FI system. Motor is a real sweetheart, always fires, acts like a modern motor. Not really a killer motor, but it makes me smile...

The deal with MS systems is that you need to spend time tuning. The higher the spec of the motor, the sharper the edge of the tune, and the more dramatic the issue when you are off the edge.

Been a while since I looked at MS, but think I'm going to need to with the MGC engine. Because I'm pretty sure no one makes a system to drive three throttle body injectors beside MS

[70TWO NOVA]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. i know I have a long way to go with my MS tune to get my engine in teh "sweet spot". She runs okay now but not much better than when the carb was on it. I also definately plan on an OD. I know that will make a huge difference with the car. Right now the drivability of it is pretty sucky but I am confident with some work and $$ of couse it can be what I want it to be.

[dale68z]

I have a 408 SBC, with a Holley carb. I run HPDE's a lot, some autocross, and believe in the car enough to travel longer distance to do track days...6+ hours of cruising, beat on the car all day and jump back in and drive it back home. The engine did 416 RWHP in vegas, at nearly 100 degree temp. Car gets 17-18 mpg, turns 2500 rpm at about 85 mph..
Would I like an LS?, sure but it costs money.
For 40 years a SBC was the engine that moved the world, it is still a very capable engine
Overdrive makes cruising soooo much nicer.

[70TWO NOVA]

I have a 408 SBC, with a Holley carb. I run HPDE's a lot, some autocross, and believe in the car enough to travel longer distance to do track days...6+ hours of cruising, beat on the car all day and jump back in and drive it back home. The engine did 416 RWHP in vegas, at nearly 100 degree temp. Car gets 17-18 mpg, turns 2500 rpm at about 85 mph..
Would I like an LS?, sure but it costs money.
For 40 years a SBC was the engine that moved the world, it is still a very capable engine
Overdrive makes cruising soooo much nicer.

What tranny do you run?

[RichardSIA]

Add me to the SBC list, even smaller since I'm building a fairly hot 327 for the '68 El Camino.

[SSLance]

GM Crate HT383 here, fed with a mechanical Quadrajet and MSD programmable ignition. It's a truck engine with low compression 9.1:1 and has a small cam with vortec heads, so it builds huge torque down low and runs out of HP after about 4500 RPM. It'll cruise all day long in 100 degree temps with the AC on and never overheat, get 18-20 MPG on highway cruises, averages 16-18 MPG with mixed driving. The T56 helps keep the RPM in the optimum range for both power and MPG.

The carb was set up and tuned by a good friend and has been flawless, the only downfall vs FI is if it sits for more than a week or so you have to crank on it a bit to get fuel back up to the carb. Other than that, you wouldn't know it's not fuel injected. The Q-jet is a fantastic carb if it's set up properly for your engine. Smaller primaries provide great mileage plus good off idle performance and once the secondaries are opened up it flows 800 CFM which is plenty for most streetable engines. One concern I do have is I'm thinking about doing the optima event at Pikes Peak and air\fuel ratios at the higher elevations are something to think about.

This combo has done several HPDEs, optima events, 150 autocross runs a year, and 4-5000 street miles a year with zero issues. I do get out run on the straights or longer more wide open autocross courses but can generally make most of that back up by letting the 400 ft lbs at the rear tires dig hard coming out of the corners.

I used the money I saved by not doing the LS swap to make the car corner much better and enjoy that just as much as going fast in a straight line.

[nicks67camaro]

Small block 400 here. I would agree with the above the T56 makes it SO much nicer to drive.

[ilikeike]

I thought about going with the 525 hp LS crate engine swap,but thought I'd save some $ building a SBC with the same HP, so I'm just finishing up a 421" Dart based small block for my 68 Camaro. In the end,I don't think I saved any money..lol.
Thinking about going with the Holley Terminator TBI. I want as clean an idle as I can get,and go from 100' elev up to 4000' with minimal issues.
I'll be using a 5spd.

[dale68z]

What tranny do you run?

Close ratio T56 magnum

When we change elevation I don't mess with jetting I change ignition timing. Here in Phoenix 1100' elevation I run 32 deg total when we run in Wilcox 4500' elevation I run 36 deg.

My daily driver is a 68 Camaro with a 327 Qjet and a 700r4. It runs fantastic, gets great fuel economy. It only cranked out 194.6 RWHP with 245' # of torque.

We are building a beater 73 Camaro with a AFR headed 383 and t56. I bought the engine cheap from someone doing an LS swap.

[nokones]

I stayed with the SBC in my 89 C4 Corvette. I gave the LS a serious thought and I elected to stay old school. The SBC has been trued and tried successfully for many decades and I kinda like the old school stuff. My engine is an all aluminum Lingenfelter 427 SBC with AFR Heads, TPIS fuel injection, Aviaid Dry Sump Oil System, and Holley HP EFI ECM System. The LS are great engine but, I thought it would be best to stay with a SBC. I like the LS engines and I have two other cars with LS engines (LS3 & LS6).

JD stated the only drawback on having a SBC is that you can't attend LS Fest. I think you can now. I think they changed the rule this year to if you're complicating on doing a LS swap you can run your SBC. Also, there was a Gen 1 LS3 and it was a 402 cubic inch. I was thinking about claiming my SBC as a Gen 1 LS3 so I can say I have a LS and I would be eligible to enter LS Fest. I'm not sure if the 402 was a SBC or a BBC.