Best second gen fbody aftermarket subframe

[Schroeder]

Guys, I was considering getting a new aftermarket subframe (some of you may have seen my wanted ad in the clssifieds). I am sold on the DSE mainly just because of their name. I wanted to know what people think is the best aftermarket subframe though? best performance and bang for the buck. I'm not going to be officially racing the car so I don't care about rules and all that crap. Any racing I do is street racing and for fun.

I have a pontiac 400 engine and hedman headers for it. I would really love to keep the headers that I have since those are never a cheap investment. Is a new subframe worth it, or should I just upgrade what I have? I also want to get a 10" tire on the front with decent deep-dish, pro-touring-looking 18" wheels on soon. That's what started driving the decision for the aftermarket subframe. I was told by my wheel manufacture (year one) that a 10" wheel will not fit on the factory subframe.

[Schwartz Performance]

Just throwing it out there, we have a full frame for these as well for a more solid foundation. Doesn't require any floorpan cutting either.

Headers will need to be custom, which will likely apply to anything you get with a rack and pinion.

-Dale

[Schroeder]

Thanks a lot for the info. Looks great. VERY intersting. So it comes with an assembled rear? I went thru the options I wanted and u may be a bit out of my range. Ill PM u

[Schwartz Performance]

Yeah everything would be assembled if you choose assembly. Axles, brakes, etc.
if you add up a new rear end, 13" f/r brakes, and all the other stuff, you're pretty close to the price of our chassis.

-Dale

[hotrodalex]

I was told by my wheel manufacture (year one) that a 10" wheel will not fit on the factory subframe.

Check out ridetech's TruTurn, I think you can fit a 10" rim up front with that.

[Schroeder]

Thanks a lot hotrodalex. I appreciate your reply. I would like to point out though that I have a SECOND GENERATION firebird. It appears that the ridetech setup is not compatible with a 2nd gen. I have sent them an email though to verify. http://www.ridetech.com/store/tru-turn/

Does anyone else have a second gen that went through what I'm going through who can offer any help or suggestions?

[cpd004]

There is this too:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=49545

[Schroeder]

Sounds cool and all, but is that better than DSE? Also, it uses C7 hubs it says? That is really awesome, but at this moment there isn't much after market stuff for that, right? Prolly be expensive too. Also, just looked on ron and ride tech's site and it still isn't there. So much for making the march release date. Ugh...guess I'll send em an email, but you have REALLY caught my interest cpd004. thanks a lot!

[cpd004]

I think you're going to have a hard hearing which is best. It'd be great if someone would grab them all for a side by side comparison along with testing, but that would extremely time consuming and expensive. I've dealt with Schwartz there's always someone there to answer the phone for tech support. They may all be that way, but I haven't dealt with the others. ridetech wasn't bad either.

[Schroeder]

Yeah, I know I wasn't going to get a side by side comparison like that, but I was hoping people who have made the switch would chime in, talk about the handling, talk about the stance, etc.

I was mistaken about the C7 hubs too. c5/c6 hubs are used, but bigger c7 bearings are used! That's cool. Also, I have to apologize to readers and to ridetech about my comments on their site not being updated. I was unable to find info on their site about the subframe because they aren't making one! Lol I CONSTANTLY mix up ride tech and speedtech in my browser's address bar. Stupid habit. Anyway, SPEEDtech DOES have information on their subframe on their site. For anyone else who is interested, here is a link with a lot of info. http://www.speedtechperformance.com/...cat/cat160.htm

They have me sold. I think it looks like it could be better than DSE's. I do have a hard time comparing the numbers to each other though. The speedtech site and the link to the lateral G thread where the numbers are discussed are just that, outright numbers. How do these numbers compare to the DSE graphs on their subframe shown here: http://www.detroitspeed.com/1970-198...subframe.html# ?

I'd like to know how to interpret the graphs and what I should be gleaning from them.

[David Pozzi]

Guys, I was considering getting a new aftermarket subframe (some of you may have seen my wanted ad in the clssifieds). I am sold on the DSE mainly just because of their name. I wanted to know what people think is the best aftermarket subframe though? best performance and bang for the buck. I'm not going to be officially racing the car so I don't care about rules and all that crap. Any racing I do is street racing and for fun.

I have a pontiac 400 engine and hedman headers for it. I would really love to keep the headers that I have since those are never a cheap investment. Is a new subframe worth it, or should I just upgrade what I have? I also want to get a 10" tire on the front with decent deep-dish, pro-touring-looking 18" wheels on soon. That's what started driving the decision for the aftermarket subframe. I was told by my wheel manufacture (year one) that a 10" wheel will not fit on the factory subframe.

My wife Mary ran a 9.5" wide front wheel on a stock 2nd gen sub with 275/18 tires. I'd say that's the limit with stock sub and inner fenders.
We switched to an Art Morrison sub and now run a 315X18 on a 10" rim - if I remember right. Very happy with the AME sub but the others you mentioned are very good subs.

[parsonsj]

Best at what? What's the criteria? Price? Support? Availability? Tire fitment? Ease of install? Resale?

Unless you define what you mean by best, the rest of us will all just give you our ring finger length and you'll be more confused than ever.

[Schroeder]

All of those criteria r good measuring sticks. I was particularly refering to tire fitment, ride quality, and geometry. Value is a big measuring stick too

[Twentyover]

So pretty much everything is the most important criteria

[Schroeder]

Defintion of "best" according to google: of the most excellent, effective, or desirable type or quality.. I asked for the "best" subframe. I want the most well rounded subframe with all things considered. Never thought it was going to be so hard to get some input from owners of these aftermarket subframes, particularly owners of 2nd gen versions. Everyone referred me here on other forums for the wealth of knowledge. Anyway, yeah, I guess everything does matter. I think everything should matter when you're spending $8k+, so if you're just trolling and have no input what so ever GTFO.

[David Pozzi]

Please calm down and give us a little more info to go on. What's best for a daily driver may not be best for a hard core racer. I still don't know exactly what you intend to do with your car other than "street racing", so I posted a pretty generic answer.
Tell us your intended use and budget and you might get a more realistic response. If we have to draw it out of you with question after question it may not happen.

[srh3trinity]

I would say the DSE is the most proven option out there. It is in multiple fast street/track cars. See Brian Finch and the Tucker's second gen test car as examples. Stielow uses them as his basis for his first gen builds. I haven't priced them lately, but it was on the higher side of the price range. If I am not mistaken, Speedtech has a little more room for wider wheels, but not by much. There aren't as many examples of the AME or TCI subs out there, but those are other options. As the others have mentioned, your budget and intended use will weigh heavily on what is "best" for you. For me DSE vs Speedtech would be a coin flip on tire size and geometry. It would come down to price, brake options, header options, etc.

[parsonsj]

I think you'll be happy with any one of a half-dozen different sub-frames. Including OEM (GM made a lot of improvements in the 2nd gen). They are all best, depending on how you define what you want, and what you want to do with the car.

One other thing: tell me to get the **** out again, and you'll be banned from this site.

[Schroeder]

I would say the DSE is the most proven option out there. It is in multiple fast street/track cars. See Brian Finch and the Tucker's second gen test car as examples. Stielow uses them as his basis for his first gen builds. I haven't priced them lately, but it was on the higher side of the price range. If I am not mistaken, Speedtech has a little more room for wider wheels, but not by much. There aren't as many examples of the AME or TCI subs out there, but those are other options. As the others have mentioned, your budget and intended use will weigh heavily on what is "best" for you. For me DSE vs Speedtech would be a coin flip on tire size and geometry. It would come down to price, brake options, header options, etc.

This is the simple kind of response I was looking for. Parsonsj, I wasn't talking to you. I was telling twenty over for making his smart ass remark. its pointless. Why waste my time reading such idiocy? back to the point, the headers thing is another area of concern, and it is one thing I like about the DSE. It sounds like I may be able to modify my hedman headers 28150 for a standard 2nd gen fbody. I do NOT want to spend $2000 on a set of custom lemons headers or someone else's. it's an insane price, and it just isn't something I want to spend money on....again. It sounds like speedtech may end up being about $1000 cheaper than DSE by the time it's all said and done, AND it has better geometry. that's really cool. however, it also sounds like a pontiac 400 may not fit in it. Blake foster is looking into it and is going to get me an answer hopefully this week. I have heard several people mention now that the OEM clip isn't that bad. It makes me wonder if it's a waste of time and money all together. Should I just buy new tubular a-arms, coil overs, kore3 conversion hubs and call it good? It definitely wouldn't stretch my bank account as much. It's a lot of money to pay for one more inch of tire up front. I really want 10s up front, but if it's generally thought to be pointless I think I could be convinced of that too.

[parsonsj]

Let me put it this way: we don't do that here. We don't tell people not to respond to our threads. The *only* place that sort of thing is appropriate is in For Sale and Feedback threads.