Project Barnyard Budget AXS10

[ArtosDracon]

Im building a narrowed G Body musclebar in .375 for this one. Are we building the .375 for you or someone else ?

What diameter? The factory ZQ8/Blazer front bar will drop right on a first gen and give you 1-1/4" solid bar. If you do the same OD, and the arms are the same length, it'll be a touch less stiff than the stocker which are CHEAP. Unless yours will be adjustable, then hands down, I'm on board.

[BigMikeIndy]

Are you going to use a set of the double ball joint sway bar end links on this? Love those, but they are bit pricey! What about the ridetech link kit out back?

P.S. You know we have as site for just the S10s too, right? I'm sure there are a few guys over there that aren't here that would love to see this!

I will be building a special MuscleBar for it and using the PosiLinks that you mention. May look at doing Delrin muscle bar bushings also. If your speaking of pro-tourings10.com I am a member over there and started the build thread there. Not much traffic :-(

[BigMikeIndy]

What diameter? The factory ZQ8/Blazer front bar will drop right on a first gen and give you 1-1/4" solid bar. If you do the same OD, and the arms are the same length, it'll be a touch less stiff than the stocker which are CHEAP. Unless yours will be adjustable, then hands down, I'm on board.

MuscleBar is a modular design that will allow me more clearance for wider front wheel. Looking at a 10-11" on front.

[SSLance]

They were already en route when you mentioned the A20. I just told them what I was building and its purpose and they sent the sealed ball bearings. I don't forsee this ever being a long track truck (aero lacking), and when I asked them about the A20s they said "I would only use it in a “road race” application like mid Ohio or road Atlanta. Normally you would use a sealed ball bearing in a street application." The issue will be brake knock back correct? At this point gettign the rear suspension fabbed up becomes the next project. If it becomes a larger issue down the road I will probably look into just making it a full floater.

I went through three sets of sealed ball bearing bearings in the last twelve months on my car. The side loads I'm putting on them while autocrossing just kill them. They are built for rolling forward only, not side loads. What happens is when they start to wear, they get looseness in them and then start to vibrate at highway speeds. I HATE vibrations... Took me a while to chase it down the first time as I had just replaced all of the bearings and didn't check them when it started to vibrate. It's old school to me now, I can tell right away when they begin to go out.

Hopefully the A20s will last me longer...we'll see if I ever get the chance to race the car again this year.

The axles the A20s go on are a bit larger diameter than the sealed bearings, so you'll need different axles if you want to upgrade. Personally, if you plan on autocrossing the truck, I'd make that switch now before you press the new sealed bearings on these axles.

[ArtosDracon]

MuscleBar is a modular design that will allow me more clearance for wider front wheel. Looking at a 10-11" on front.

Definitely going to keep an eye on that, I don't suppose you'd be able to put one side by side with your stock one, once you get it done at least, so we can see the profile differences, I know a few of us that would be much obliged, especially since a .375 wall 1.25 would be almost as stiff as the ZQ8, which a few of us rub tires on pretty regularly.

[ArtosDracon]

I will be building a special MuscleBar for it and using the PosiLinks that you mention. May look at doing Delrin muscle bar bushings also. If your speaking of pro-tourings10.com I am a member over there and started the build thread there. Not much traffic :-(

Oh, you're Member369, lol. Let me know if you want that changed, I'm one of the admins over there. And no, we don't have much traffic unfortunately, except spam, but we've got a few really great guys, who really know these things and we've managed to save a lot of the old PTS10 site we had, so there's a lot of info over there specific to these.

[BigMikeIndy]

Oh, you're Member369, lol. Let me know if you want that changed, I'm one of the admins over there. And no, we don't have much traffic unfortunately, except spam, but we've got a few really great guys, who really know these things and we've managed to save a lot of the old PTS10 site we had, so there's a lot of info over there specific to these.

Member369 is fine with me. I figured if I used a ridetech user name they would think i was trying to advertise which I hope its obvious to everyone thats not the case.

If I cant get where I need to be with the Modular Muscle bar we do now have spline bar access and I can build a completely one off interchangeable spline bar.

The work schedule is pretty heavy the next two weeks but i should be able to get my muscle bar fabbed up soon there after.

[BigMikeIndy]

I went through three sets of sealed ball bearing bearings in the last twelve months on my car. The side loads I'm putting on them while autocrossing just kill them.

So your issue was more wear than brakes?

[ArtosDracon]

Member369 is fine with me. I figured if I used a ridetech user name they would think i was trying to advertise which I hope its obvious to everyone thats not the case.

If I cant get where I need to be with the Modular Muscle bar we do now have spline bar access and I can build a completely one off interchangeable spline bar.

The work schedule is pretty heavy the next two weeks but i should be able to get my muscle bar fabbed up soon there after.

If you do develop a splined bar, talk the boss into making it available, I will save up my lunch money for the next couple months if it's 1.25", with pre-bent arms and at least two holes, would really prefer three, in the arms for adjustment. Hell, if you do a .375 wall bar with multiple holes, I'll say right here and how that I will buy one. Won't need the links with the global west LCAs though a set of machined delrin bushings for the frame would save me some serious time on my really old mill.

[SSLance]

So your issue was more wear than brakes?

This is what happens to them...this particular bearing only had about 150 miles on it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTVeoQqdFuw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfeeUsZrYjQ


Usually I'd get 3-4 months out of them or 20-30 autocross runs...before they'd start to fail.

[SSLance]

There are a couple of other issues with the sealed roller bearings we can discuss as well if you'd like. First and foremost would be leaks... QP will tell you and everyone else that asks there is no need for an inner axle seal when using a sealed roller bearing in the big Torino style axle housing end. Everyone I know running a QP housing will tell you differently, they ALL leak on the passenger side if you do not put the inner axle seal in before the bearing. Once I found the correct sized inner seals for my axles, that ended my gear oil leaking problem that I put up with for years.

The A20 style of bearing has an integrated axle seal on the OUTSIDE of the bearing. The A20 bearings come pre-greased and are also of a "sealed" design...but gear oil can still get to them as the seal is outside of the bearing.

Now, a question I that have not seen answered yet...is the inner seal that keeps the gear oil away from the roller bearing part of the cause of the bearing failures? I don't know...but I know if I had to chose persistent gear oil leaks to keep a susbstandard bearing alive...I'd be looking for another answer (which I did).

Here is a comparison picture of the two different setups.



Sealed roller bearing on the left, A20 on new larger dia axles on the right. Notice the seal on the outside of the A20, this gets pressed into the axle end with the retainer clamp and seals around the outside race of the bearing against the axle end as well as around the axle itself. The roller bearing has no seal at all except the black plastic between the outer and inner races you see in my video above.

Note: the brake offset was wrong in the picture above and I ended up sending the axles back and had the brake offset fixed and new bearings pressed on. While doing this I also had them put the brake backing plate spacer ring on the axle before pressing the new bearings on which is a REAL timesaver when installing the axles around my disc brake kit.

This is the new axle setup that ended up going in my car...



One more plus to the A20 setup is the MASSIVE wedding ring that is used to hold the bearing in place when compared to the roller bearing setup. This is the only picture I have of the new ones...I don't have a comparison pic to show the wedding ring on the roller bearing setup, but it is substantially smaller.



Just trying to help out Mike, from someone that has been there done that with a very similar setup and found the flaws in it already. I'm sure your truck will put every bit of the side loads on your rear tires that I put on mine...knowing the resources you have behind your build.

[Brwnelky]

If you do develop a splined bar, talk the boss into making it available, I will save up my lunch money for the next couple months if it's 1.25", with pre-bent arms and at least two holes, would really prefer three, in the arms for adjustment. Hell, if you do a .375 wall bar with multiple holes, I'll say right here and how that I will buy one.

Same here. Really looking forward to watching this build

[AutoX_D21Hardbody]

Lovin' it! More trucks of all sizes need to hit the SCCA autoX courses. Back in the 80's there was a truck class but sadly it went away. I race a Nissan Hardbody in Street Prepared and have a blast doing it. The truck always turns heads out there. I will be watching this build!

[Guyt699]

So what happened to this project?

[rentedmule]

Also keen to see a follow up - I can't believe I missed this thread until now. I'm with ArtosDrakon on the custom swaybar - I would definitely be interested if there was an upgrade over the 33 mm OEM option.

[eric1967]

Cool build Mike. So the G body stuff is the same as the S10?

[Yukon Cornelius]

I seem to remember that the g-body springs gave a 1" drop over the s10 springs.

[BigMikeIndy]

Cool build Mike. So the G body stuff is the same as the S10?

the Gbody production pieces and S10 pieces are not the same. The Gbody stuff is way more advanced than the s10 when it comes to geometry and track performance. The Gbody true turn setup does work on s10 with a simple bushing and tierod adjuster swap though.

['85 LSX c10]

the Gbody production pieces and S10 pieces are not the same. The Gbody stuff is way more advanced than the s10 when it comes to geometry and track performance. The Gbody true turn setup does work on s10 with a simple bushing and tierod adjuster swap though.

So will the g body strong arms bolt on to the s10 frame or do modifications need to be made? also will they work with s10 spindles?

[Badbowtie383x]

What happened to all the pictures?