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    Results 1 to 18 of 18
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Posts
      10
      Country Flag: United States

      Mast Motorsports M90 Questions

      Hey guys. I'm in the final stages of swapping in a LY6 and 6L90 into my frame off built 1986 C10. I've been looking into engine management, and am limited with the 6L90 in what I can run. I do have the stock E38 and Tcm is of course in the tranny, but know very little about tuning with something like HP Tuners, and have no one within 100 miles of me that does. The last tuning I did I was with an old FAST bank to bank system back in 2006, so I do understand the concept, but a lot has changed since then. The LY6 is a stock longblock with VVT still in place. The only variation is that I am running a LS3 car intake and injectors. I had no plans to change over to a standard camshaft from the VVT, so I'd like a system that will allow some tuning of the VVT parameters. I have been looking into the Mast M90 setup, but am trying to find out if this system allows you to change shifting parameters, shift times, etc. I have read a ton on the complicated workings of the 6L90, and realize it's a whole new animal compared with the 4L80's and so forth. I've emailed Mast multiple times, and called several times, to no avail. That, in itself, nearly scares me away from buying their product, as if I were to have problems down the road, how hard is it going to be to get tech support? But, my hands are tied in what I can use with my setup. Can anyone shed any light on the ability to control the trans with this system? I know that several people have ran MAST engines, and those packages usually included the M90 controller, so Im hoping for some insight from a few of you that are familiar with this comtrol package. Thanks for any insight that you can give me on this.

    2. #2
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
      Posts
      15,971
      Country Flag: United States
      Will the M90 play nice with the TCM in the 6L90?

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Posts
      10
      Country Flag: United States
      That is what MAST claims, that their system will control the 6L90. They have a shop truck that has a L92 and 6L90 combo in it that they drove on the power tour last year. It just seems that information is very scarce for this system. I had also looked at doing the Holley HP system with a standard camshaft setup (Holley isn't VVT capable) and using the Powertrain Control Solutions TCM2600 to control the 6L90. However, 2 things...not sure about having 2 systems running with each other, and, by PCS' own information, you may be limited to tuning a 6L90 without having a performance tune flashed into the internal TCM first. I'm trying to find out if this is the same case with the MAST M90 as well, or if their ecu just allows it to run, but not be tuned. If that's the deal, I think my money would be better spent just removing the TCM, and sending it and my E38 off to be tuned by a good tuner, buying a standalone harness, and calling it a day. At least that way, I would get some improvement over the factory shift parameters that are in the TCM.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
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      Quote Originally Posted by MHarvey View Post
      That is what MAST claims, that their system will control the 6L90. They have a shop truck that has a L92 and 6L90 combo in it that they drove on the power tour last year. It just seems that information is very scarce for this system. I had also looked at doing the Holley HP system with a standard camshaft setup (Holley isn't VVT capable) and using the Powertrain Control Solutions TCM2600 to control the 6L90. However, 2 things...not sure about having 2 systems running with each other, and, by PCS' own information, you may be limited to tuning a 6L90 without having a performance tune flashed into the internal TCM first. I'm trying to find out if this is the same case with the MAST M90 as well, or if their ecu just allows it to run, but not be tuned. If that's the deal, I think my money would be better spent just removing the TCM, and sending it and my E38 off to be tuned by a good tuner, buying a standalone harness, and calling it a day. At least that way, I would get some improvement over the factory shift parameters that are in the TCM.
      If I was doing this, I would go with OEM electronics. Or, I would ditch the 6L90, get a good 4L80, and run the Dominator ECU to control all of it. I realize that this doesn't answer your questions, just thinking out loud...

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Posts
      10
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
      If I was doing this, I would go with OEM electronics. Or, I would ditch the 6L90, get a good 4L80, and run the Dominator ECU to control all of it. I realize that this doesn't answer your questions, just thinking out loud...

      Andrew
      I sure understand you there. When I was first buying components for this build, I liked the idea of the 6L as I could run a 3.27 gear (8.8 Ford rear), and with the 6L's low first gear, still have good bottom end with a great cruising speed. This truck was my grandfather's, and I'm just building it for a driver, thus the lack of a bunch of engine mods. I may do more motor stuff later, but it should make around 325 to the tire tuned, which I think will be fine for a short bed truck that is just lowered on stock suspension. If I had known at the start what I do now, I'd have bought the motor, and opted to go with a 4L80. The options seem to be endless there. As it is now, I've got the entire drivetrain in the truck, cab back on, and a driveshaft that I just had made ($750), so I'm pretty well vested in the 6L. I'm going to try to call Mast one last time tomorrow, and if there's still no answer or no returned call, I'll probably just contact Speartech as I know he's got some good tunes for the 6L's that he can flash into the T43 TCM. I'm at the point to where I need to get a harness, and ECM figured out, and this thing's ready to start. I've still got a lot of other things to do (mainly paint and interior), so it won't be truely driveable for awhile, but I'd like to make it to LSFest with it this year. I live in Bowling Green, Ky and have a couple of friends who work for Holley, so I've been bugging them for a year to get their guys to figure out the 6 speed autos and add that control to the Dominator ECU systems, lol, but the guys have said its so far down the list of plans that it may never come to be.

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Apr 2001
      Location
      The City of Fountains
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      15,971
      Country Flag: United States
      I lived in BGKY for 4 years. Love that town. Might retire there someday...LOL

      If this is just a driver I would just use the stock stuff. Surely a competent tuner can make that transmission work very well.

      Andrew
      1970 GTO Version 3.0
      1967 Cougar build
      GM High-Tech Performance feature
      My YouTube Channel Please Subscribe!
      Instagram @projectgattago
      Dr. EFI
      I deliver what EFI promises.
      Remote Holley EFI tuning.
      Please get in touch if I can be of service.

      "You were the gun, your voice was the trigger, your bravery was the barrel, your eyes were the bullets." ~ Her

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
      Country Flag: United States
      Speartech can supply a programmed OEM ECU and reprogram your TCU. They seem to be one of the few providing this for the 6L90E and 6L80E. I went with them for my LSA 6L90E build.

      www.speartech.com

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Posts
      10
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by andrewb70 View Post
      I lived in BGKY for 4 years. Love that town. Might retire there someday...LOL

      If this is just a driver I would just use the stock stuff. Surely a competent tuner can make that transmission work very well.

      Andrew
      Small world with you living here previously. I've always lived here so I guess I'll just stay here too when I retire, lol. The more I've read today, the more I've just about decided to let Speartech tune my engine ecu and the TCM from the tranny, and be done with it. This setup came out of the same vehicle, so from what I've read, this is one of the best routes to take. I did finally find some info this evening that says that the Mast ecm will send the necessary signals needed to make the 6L90 shift and run correctly, but it has no programming control over the tranny. That's not what I wanted to hear for their system, as that was one of the main draws for me, VVT and 6L90 control. Well, now half of that just left the picture. That info was from early 2014, so I'm doubting they've made any other improvements in that field as it looks like the stock TCM is what gets in the way there.

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Posts
      10
      Country Flag: United States
      [QUOTE=dhutton;1120884]Speartech can supply a programmed OEM ECU and reprogram your TCU. They seem to be one of the few providing this for the 6L90E and 6L80E. I went with them for my LSA 6L90E build.

      www.speartech.com

      Have you been pretty happy with the performance of your 6 speed auto? I'm thinking they may be my best bet on getting a nice tune for my setup. Going to shoot the an email or phone call tomorrow and check on their programming options and a harness as well. I've got the engine ECM as well as the TCM that are from the same vehicle, so looks like they should be able to fix me up. I'd like to get their ideas on keeping the VVT (if they can effectively tune it), versus going to a normal cam. I know there's a lot of power left on the table, even with the stock cam, on these VVT engines. Just seems that some tuners have trouble with it. Thanks for the information.

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
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      [QUOTE=MHarvey;1120939]
      Quote Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
      Speartech can supply a programmed OEM ECU and reprogram your TCU. They seem to be one of the few providing this for the 6L90E and 6L80E. I went with them for my LSA 6L90E build.

      www.speartech.com

      Have you been pretty happy with the performance of your 6 speed auto? I'm thinking they may be my best bet on getting a nice tune for my setup. Going to shoot the an email or phone call tomorrow and check on their programming options and a harness as well. I've got the engine ECM as well as the TCM that are from the same vehicle, so looks like they should be able to fix me up. I'd like to get their ideas on keeping the VVT (if they can effectively tune it), versus going to a normal cam. I know there's a lot of power left on the table, even with the stock cam, on these VVT engines. Just seems that some tuners have trouble with it. Thanks for the information.
      My car is not on the road yet but I do love that same combination in my DD CTS-V. :>) They can do a tune for the VVT. I asked them about it when I was exploring my options.

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Posts
      10
      Country Flag: United States
      Thanks for the reply Don. I sent them an email this morning with a couple of questions so I'm looking forward to hearing back from them. They definitely look like the go-to people for the 6L's. It's a lucky guy that gets to DD a V, lol. A coworker of mine has one and its a blast to drive. Unfortunately, I need a truck too often to DD a car, but the V would be awesome.

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Nov 2006
      Location
      Mountain Springs, Texas
      Posts
      4,488
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      Quote Originally Posted by MHarvey View Post
      Thanks for the reply Don. I sent them an email this morning with a couple of questions so I'm looking forward to hearing back from them. They definitely look like the go-to people for the 6L's. It's a lucky guy that gets to DD a V, lol. A coworker of mine has one and its a blast to drive. Unfortunately, I need a truck too often to DD a car, but the V would be awesome.
      My wife drives a truck for her DD and she let's me borrow it when I need it... LOL... :>)

      Don
      1969 Camaro - LSA 6L90E AME sub/IRS
      1957 Buick Estate Wagon
      1959 El Camino - Ironworks frame
      1956 Cameo - full C5 suspension/drivetrain
      1959 Apache Fleetside

    13. #13
      Join Date
      Apr 2009
      Location
      Fairfax, VA
      Posts
      45
      Country Flag: United States
      I would definitely use the stock E38 computer. I ran my chevelle with an LY6/6L90 for years with the stock truck tune. I am building another 6l90 car now and will be getting a professional remote tune when it is ready since I upgraded the top end of the engine. You will need to use a tuning software to log data then you email it to a tuner and they can update your tune.

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Posts
      10
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by dhutton View Post
      My wife drives a truck for her DD and she let's me borrow it when I need it... LOL... :>)

      Don
      LOL, sounds like you've got that worked out to your advantage

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Posts
      10
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by bsharpe View Post
      I would definitely use the stock E38 computer. I ran my chevelle with an LY6/6L90 for years with the stock truck tune. I am building another 6l90 car now and will be getting a professional remote tune when it is ready since I upgraded the top end of the engine. You will need to use a tuning software to log data then you email it to a tuner and they can update your tune.
      Thanks for the reply on how that worked. This is my first adventure into the LS engine world and I'm having to learn as I go. I guess the flashed tunes I've been reading about are basically just generic mail order tunes, as I hadn't seen anything about the data logging, etc. As a side note, were you pretty happy with how your LY6 ran in your Chevelle? I'm assuming the engine was stock as you mention running on the stock truck tune, was the power acceptable? I'm really fighting the urge to do more to it, but I've had engines that were cammed too big to enjoy driving, and I really don't want this to go that way. Right now, it has the Holley mid ram intake on it, 39 lb. FAST injectors, and 1 3/4" long tube headers, so I've changed enough to visually make it look good, hopefully without hurting how it drives. Thanks again for the reply.

    16. #16
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Posts
      10
      Country Flag: United States
      I just wanted to update this information in case anyone was curious about the M90. I finally got through to Mast, and as of just a couple weeks ago, they no longer offer the M90 with 6L80/90 support. When GM changed the TCM in 2010, it now needs to be matched by VIN to the ECM. Since the Mast ECM obviously has no vin, they found it would no longer interface, and are unable at this time to find a way to make it work. My 6L90 is a 2008, and would work, but they no longer offer it anyway. Also, even when 6L was supported, there were no tuning options for the trans with the M90, you still had to tune the trans with HP Tuners, etc. So, I've now ordered a stand alone harness and will be ordering HP Tuners. I found a local guy (friend of a friend type deal), who is not a tuner, but has experience with HP Tuners on his own vehicle, so he is going to help me with the basic setup and getting it running. Then, I can go one of two routes, either purchase an email tune based on data logs that I take, or wait until LS Fest and have someone tune it while they are here. Some of you may have caught that I swapped intakes during the previous 2 day run of this thread, so I'm now using the Holley mid ram intake, which is like the Hi Ram upper, with a dual plane type lower. I had a friend at Holley that I had mentioned quite some time ago that I'd like to have an intake, and out of the blue the other day he called me with a price I couldn't refuse. So I pulled my LS3 intake and swapped on the Holley. I figure it may suffer from some heat soak, but this is just going to be a street driven, daily driver type truck, so I'm not going for max power, and I like the looks of the Holley plenum. I'm hoping it won't be too difficult to tune over the stock truck tune, as the intake, injectors and full length headers are the only deviations from stock (stock throttle body, no cam or head work). Anyway, in a nutshell there's the answer...no more M90 with 6 speed autos, and even with the older systems that support them, no tuning capabilities for the trans.

    17. #17
      Join Date
      Mar 2009
      Location
      Wake Forest,NC
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      843
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      You might try to contact Mike Norris and find out if he will be at LS Fest ( he usually is) and have him tune it.

    18. #18
      Join Date
      Mar 2013
      Posts
      10
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      Quote Originally Posted by 71RS/SS396 View Post
      You might try to contact Mike Norris and find out if he will be at LS Fest ( he usually is) and have him tune it.
      Sounds great, thanks for the information. I know the tune will be much better if I have someone do it in person.







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