Child seat install??

[Josue]

Anyone ever install child seats in an older car? I know there are tons of you guys with younger kids too! lol

I'll be purchasing my parent's 68 Firebird this summer, and I plan on driving the living piss out of it. At that point, we'll have a 3 year old, and a 1 year old, so I'd like to be able to load them up into the car as well. The car has original seats and seat belts in it, and I don't think those would be safe enough. haha And, obviously the car doesn't have the anchors like modern cars.

[mikewoods]

All child seats come with instructions for "lap belt only" install, so you should be good with that. If you're concerned about that type of install, you can retrofit the top tether part of the LATCH system in almost any vehicle. Google LATCH system retrofit. I haven't done it yet, but there are many websites dedicated to it.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

[andrewb70]

Just remember, install that seat as tight as possible. I used to put my knee into it and tighten the belt as hard as I could. I'd cringe every time I saw a child taken out of a seat and see the seat flopping around. Most (if not all) seats also come with a tether that anchors to latches on the package tray, which most new cars have. It shouldn't be hard to install something like that. You basically want the seat anchored as if it was permanent.

Just remember, the driver is the most important safety device!

Andrew

[Josue]

I've seen more questionable seat installs and kids buckled in improperly from my friends than I'd care to admit. I'd love to tell them that they're doing it all wrong, but I'm not one for words, so I'd basically be insulting their parenting, which could end the friendship

I feel installing anchors would be the safest bet, but how would I go about that? Would I just bolt them to the floor and package tray? I feel like there should be some reinforcement there? I don't know if bolting them to a simple piece of sheetmetal would be sufficient in an accident.

Off to Google!

[andrewb70]

I've seen more questionable seat installs and kids buckled in improperly from my friends than I'd care to admit. I'd love to tell them that they're doing it all wrong, but I'm not one for words, so I'd basically be insulting their parenting, which could end the friendship

I feel installing anchors would be the safest bet, but how would I go about that? Would I just bolt them to the floor and package tray? I feel like there should be some reinforcement there? I don't know if bolting them to a simple piece of sheetmetal would be sufficient in an accident.

Off to Google!

Josh,

A couple of minutes on google resulted in this:

http://thecarseatlady.wordpress.com/...01-the-basics/

Judging from that the location of the anchor is mostly irrelevant. I would make a slot in the rear package tray and weld a an anchor to the trunk floor. If you want to make it more durable, weld a large square plate to the floor first, and then weld your anchor to that. That'll be as sturdy as anything the OEMs provide.

Andrew

[Josue]

I've spent this time googling it too.....looks like DIY anchors are quite the debate!

While I believe that thick, reinforcement plates welded to some sort of the body's structure (not just onto a piece of sheetmetal), and then anchors attached to that would be more than enough strength, a part of me also believes the nay-sayers when they bring up how this process is NOT safety tested, and I don't know if I'd feel comfortable using my kids as guinea pigs....in HOPES that my design is strong enough.

Most advocates for car seat safety (I actually belong to a car seat forum, and a facebook page from when I was researching what car seat to buy lol) boast how the LATCH systems aren't any safer than seat belts, just more convenient, and there's nothing wrong with using the car's existing seat belts.......a part of me is just weary of 45 year old seat belt technology, and 45 year old seat belts in general! The age of the part, and how they don't retract and lock up like newer seat belts, they just tighten down and that's it. Which is how the LATCH system works anyway, but still, when they built and tested seat belts 45 years ago, they didn't do so with car seats in mind.

Although, what they did have in mind are full grown adults, so it would stand to reason that something that weighed a fraction of that would be just fine?

So many sides to this!! haha

[mikewoods]

Just remember, install that seat as tight as possible. I used to put my knee into it and tighten the belt as hard as I could. I'd cringe every time I saw a child taken out of a seat and see the seat flopping around. Most (if not all) seats also come with a tether that anchors to latches on the package tray, which most new cars have. It shouldn't be hard to install something like that. You basically want the seat anchored as if it was permanent.

Just remember, the driver is the most important safety device!

Andrew

All cars built after Sept 1st 2002 have the LATCH system built in.

[rohrt]

I use the seat belt in the bird and put in tow hooks in the Tempest.

I still use the tow hooks in the tempest since my new seat belt buckle ends up in a bad spot. They have a reinforcement plate on the back and put nylon nuts that won't back out. The downside is it is not easy to remove.

[nokones]

I would exercise an abundance of caution on this subject. You should follow the installation instructions for the subject child safety seat and the vehicle owner's manual. Since, the vehicle owner's manual for your vehicle more than likely does not cover child seats, you will have to refer to the Child safety seat manufacturer's manual. The use of any device or hardware not OEM for both the vehicle and the child safety seat can cause you a whole set of problems, maybe not with the law but, in a civil litigation trial if something should happen to the child in a collision event. Most law enforcement officers will not know what they're looking at as long the seat is strapped in unless they have been certified in child safety seats. I am certified in child safety seats and these types of issues are part of the training. Anything outside of the OEM spec for the vehicle and child seat has to be tested and certified for that particular installation

You may want to checkout the safekids.org website for information.

[Josue]

Exactly. Using anything other than what's approved by the manufacturer certainly voids any warranty, should something happen.

I think I'm going to look into replacement seat belts for it...all 4 seats wouldn't be a bad idea either. If not the locking kind like in newer vehicles (I saw a post somewhere about those styles, but I've yet to find them) then at least some new OEM style belts. 20 years or so is supposed to be the shelf life of seat belts anyway, from what I've read. I just hope they work with our child seats!

[andrewb70]

Honestly, if you are that worried about it, don't put the kids in a 40+ year old car.

Andrew

[Josue]

Meh, it's not that I'm that worried about it, I'm just trying to be as safe as possible. I worry about taking them in our regular vehicles as it is. (05 Crew Cab Canyon, 07 Trailblazer) Even though they have the LATCH system and newer technology seat belts, a 3 month old is still as good as dead in a major collision...I don't care how much testing these companies have done. Our 2 1/2 year old may fair a little better, but there's a TON of force applied in these heavy collisions, and she's still so fragile compared to adults. If there was anything more I could do to make car rides in these newer vehicles any safer, I would. Short of just never taking them anywhere, all we can do is make sure they're strapped into their seats correctly, and try to be as good of a driver as we can be.

As safe as I want to be, I think not taking the kids for a ride in the car for the first 6-8 years of their lives is a bit extreme. And even kids aside, as much time as I plan on spending in the car, I'd like to make it as safe as possible for me too. Fuel system crash proofing, collapsible steering column, etc.

[Red67Mustang]

I had a 1998 GMC Jimmy that I fabricated 'latch' mounts for in about 2004 when my oldest was born. I attached then to the same anchor point that the lab belts used.

At the time I was investigating (then) new vehicles with the latch system from the manufacturer, and was generally unimpressed with the factory mounts and their reinforcement. What I did in the Jimmy was far and away more robust than what the factories were doing.


In reality, maybe the factory was just designing for the load, where I was in overkill mode (typical for me). Consider that an infant plus child seat is maybe 50 lbs - apply about 20g for a fairly bad crash and you've got a load of 1,000 lbs. in reality, that's not too much for the car to handle (500 lb each if just 2 anchors, 333 lb each if 3, etc...). Now, that same crash with a 200 lb guy driving yields a 4,000 lb load...

Make sure the front seats are just as safe as the rears, or you just risk leaving your kid(s) as orphans.

[Josue]

Absolutely. I'd like to replace all the seat belts, including the fronts. I'm currently looking into a shoulder belt system, not sure how secure the shoulder belt that drops down from the roof is on these early F-bodys. haha

[scott_fx]

what are you guys using for car seats that work with the aviation style belt buckles?

[rohrt]

I would exercise an abundance of caution on this subject. You should follow the installation instructions for the subject child safety seat and the vehicle owner's manual. Since, the vehicle owner's manual for your vehicle more than likely does not cover child seats, you will have to refer to the Child safety seat manufacturer's manual. The use of any device or hardware not OEM for both the vehicle and the child safety seat can cause you a whole set of problems, maybe not with the law but, in a civil litigation trial if something should happen to the child in a collision event. Most law enforcement officers will not know what they're looking at as long the seat is strapped in unless they have been certified in child safety seats. I am certified in child safety seats and these types of issues are part of the training. Anything outside of the OEM spec for the vehicle and child seat has to be tested and certified for that particular installation

You may want to checkout the safekids.org website for information.

I appreciate your concern. You bring up a good point about the caution on this subject. I would hate for someone to look at my pics of the 64 and try and do the same without thought to the grade of bolts, , rust condition, vibrations and backing support.

When I use my Firebird I follow the child seat instructions and use the lap belt in the back seat. Its fastened in and angled as well as my newer vehicles that I did have inspected by a person certified in child safety. I don't think I have ever seen anything on the subject of vehicle owner's manual for the Firebird. Pretty sure when I was a kid the saftey system was my mom throwing her hand out in front of me. No joke.

Would like to hear more on what you recommend for a 50 year old car that never had rear seat belts to begin with(64 Tempest). I'm confident that the hooks I put in could lift the car off the ground.

[Josue]

what are you guys using for car seats that work with the aviation style belt buckles?

Interested as well.

A woman on the car seat safety facebook page I'm on said her and her kids ride in her father in law's classic car (didn't mention what it was) to car shows every now and then, and mentioned she had to go through a few different seats to find one that worked with the style of buckles in older cars.

[Jetfixr320]

Neither of my cars came from the factory with rear seat belts or mounting provisions. 64 Ford Fairlane and a 65 Ford Falcon.

I plan on buying anchors from Wesco performance or getting some from a late model car. Where ever they get mounted the floor will be reinforced.

[sam 74]

in my car i just used the lap belts, new ones of course, if they can hold an adult they can hold a child seat and child, i added a hold down on the package tray for the upper mount on the seat, i cinch it down as tight as possible and its good to go.