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    Results 1 to 10 of 10
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Nov 2014
      Location
      Concord, NC
      Posts
      80
      Country Flag: United States

      OBD1 Questions??????

      Is it possible to run a carburated motor in a OBD1 former TPI equipped vehicle and still be "legal"?

      Background info: 1988 Corvette L98. 350 TPI auto. I'm debating on running an LS series motor (expensive!) vs. a detuned small block Cup motor. Physically doing either swap is easy. I would love to run a Cup motor because they are so plentiful and quite a bit cheaper out here than a LS. My dilemma is I need to keep it street legal. In North Carolina the inspection process is looking to see if SMOG equpment is installed and to run a scan through the OBD service port.



      My best case scenario is run a small block and somehow integrate it with the exsisting computer to make it think a TPI motor is still there.

      Next idea would be to run the small block with it's stand alone ignition system and still have the OBD system on board but fooled into thinking it's operating properly.

      Last is the bite the bullet and install an LS at a greater expense.

      What are your ideas?


    2. #2
      Join Date
      Sep 2014
      Location
      Sun City West, AZ
      Posts
      672
      Country Flag: United States
      In order to be legal, you better check with your State's agency that regulates the smog laws. In California it is the California Air Resources Board (CARB) that regulates the smog laws. Any after market part or modification that is considered smog related is regulated by the CARB. All smog related after-market part/system must be approved by the CARB and have an "Executive Order" (EO Number) issued certifying that part/system is CARB approved for that particular application. The following smog related components/systems are regulated by the CARB:

      Air Cleaner Modification - modifications to the air cleaner and/or its housing.
      Air Filter/Intake Modification - open element air filters, modifications to the air flow intake tract, heat risers/preheat ducts.
      Engine Modification/Engine Change - kits that include multiple engine modifications such as new cylinder heads and camshafts, or boring and stroking; engine changes using an engine certified for another late model vehicle application, with additional engine modifications .
      Exhaust System/Exhaust Modification - exhaust manifold, exhaust headers, exhaust pipes, crossover pipes, etc.
      Fuel Line Modification - devices designed to attach to or be inserted in the fuel line.
      Exemptions are no longer required for magnetic devices that are attached to the exterior of the fuel line; these devices have been determined to have no effect on emissions.
      Fuel System Modification - fuel filters, gas caps, pressure regulators.
      Intake/Exhaust System - a kit that includes both intake and exhaust components.

      You may want to check with your State Air Resources Board agency to see if you can legally put a carburetor on an EFI/computer controlled vehicle and operate it on a public highway.

      Without further research into this matter, I would think it would be near impossible to pass the inspection with a carburetor on a computer controlled 1988 Corvette.

      Personally, I would use an EFI system for the performance and drivability especially for autocrossing. An EFI system is a lot more efficient than a carburetor.

      With the OBD1 systems, you will need to find a chip burner/tuner person to burn a chip (ePROM) for your application. Lingenfelter use to do chips for the OBD1s and JET was another source.

      I would look into to see if a quality aftermarket EFI system is legal for your State. Also, you may want to talk to an engine builder to see if a former NASCAR Cup motor would be compatible for an EFI system without a major redesign. If you're interested, I have this for sale out of my 1989 Corvette. It is controlled with an ACCEL Gen 7 system. The GEN 7 system stays with the car.

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      --
      Kenny Mitchell
      [email protected]

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Nov 2014
      Location
      Concord, NC
      Posts
      80
      Country Flag: United States
      Thanks for the coment Ken. I've consulted a referee already who gave me most of the information above. This is quote is from the North Carolina DOT.

      Getting Your Vehicle Inspected, Steps

      A NC Vehicle Safety & Emissions Inspection is required annually before the vehicle’s registration can be renewed. An inspection consists of 2 steps:
      Step 1, County Requirement
      If you live in one of these counties you are required to have an emissions inspection.
      County Listing
      Step 2, Inspections
      There are two parts to your vehicle's inspection.

      Vehicle Safety Inspection

      The vehicle inspection can be performed at any of the 7,500 licensed inspection stations throughout the state.

      Exemptions, the following vehicle types do not need a Safety Inspection:
      ■Vehicles 35 years old, or older

      On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) Emissions Inspection

      North Carolina is fighting ozone-forming emissions from gasoline-operated cars and light duty trucks. Inspections are conducted using the vehicle’s On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, computerized equipment installed on all new vehicles since 1996.

      Exemptions, the following vehicle types do not need an OBD Emissions Inspection:
      ■Vehicles 35 years old, or older
      ■Model 1995 vehicles, or older
      ■Diesel-operated vehicles
      ■Vehicles licensed under the farmer rate
      Step 3, Pay Your Fees

      Luckily, it isn't a stringement as in CA. After dealing with it for 41 years I'm glad I'm not living there anymore. I thought of adapting Cup to EFI as well. I have a friend at JGR working on modeling right now and my best friend is sourcing parts through local used NASCAR parts vendors. Building a Cup engine friendly to TPI or SuperRam should be fairly easy. My chip burner is able to do what is needed as well.

      My issue is the potential codes. If there are codes present on inspection I fail. I'm thinking a built SBC with a SuperRam (maybe yours) and heavy chip mods might actually work and not break the bank. LS's out here are in the $6000-8000 range. That doesn't include any adapters and misc. parts. I have access to a RCR 1997 SB1 358 for $2500. Due tune it, chip it and I might have something. MAF's are pretty good at adapting to changes. I'm worried I'll get all this done and still have to pick up an LS.

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Apr 2006
      Location
      Huntington Beach, CA
      Posts
      2,415
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Matman3 View Post
      Is it possible to run a carburated motor in a OBD1 former TPI equipped vehicle and still be "legal"?

      Background info: 1988 Corvette L98. 350 TPI auto.
      Quote Originally Posted by Matman3 View Post
      Thanks for the coment Ken. I've consulted a referee already who gave me most of the information above. This is quote is from the North Carolina DOT.

      On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) Emissions Inspection

      North Carolina is fighting ozone-forming emissions from gasoline-operated cars and light duty trucks. Inspections are conducted using the vehicle’s On-Board Diagnostic (OBD) system, computerized equipment installed on all new vehicles since 1996.

      Exemptions, the following vehicle types do not need an OBD Emissions Inspection:
      ■Vehicles 35 years old, or older
      ■Model 1995 vehicles, or older
      ■Diesel-operated vehicles
      ■Vehicles licensed under the farmer rate
      Step 3, Pay Your Fees
      I'm confused. You are worried about OBD1 codes but quote law that states OBD1 is exempt from examination?
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      Autocross and track blog about running autocross and track events with pro touring cars

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      This is not exactly relevant to the OPs case, but I'm posting just to show what I have done.

      I put a vortec head, roller cam 383 crate long block in my 1985 Monte Carlo yet retained the factory CCC system that came on the 305 originally in the car which uses a OBDI ECM, Electronic Quadrajet Carb and Distributor. I'm not required to do emissions testing here, but I'm certain it would pass if I was and I do not get any check engine codes either. I have had several different proms burnt over the years tweaking on things, the latest when I swapped in the T56...and we've been able to tune the thing so that it runs pretty well. I've also worked on the secondary rods and the air valve on the Q-jet to make sure it's flowing as much as it can on the top end. Last time on the dyno it put 400 ft lbs to the rear tires at 2000 RPM.

      If a visual check shows all smog equipment in place and a scan doesn't present any codes, would the inspector even notice if there was a carb on the intake instead of a TPI? Maybe retrofitting this type of computer setup onto your car might be an option?
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Sep 2014
      Location
      Sun City West, AZ
      Posts
      672
      Country Flag: United States
      In California they would notice in a heartbeat. It is part of the visual inspection of the system components. The inspector will know by the VIN what is required to be on the car.
      --
      Kenny Mitchell
      [email protected]

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Nov 2014
      Location
      Concord, NC
      Posts
      80
      Country Flag: United States
      ok, I sat down and talked with the lead Referee for my county. I do not need an emissions inspection BUT..............part of the safety inspection confirming all the OEM emissions equipment is present. So, what has seen in the past is guys running non-functional equipment. Air pumps with no fan, EGR block-off plate installed in between intake and EGR, Air tubes welded to headers, etc...

      Basically, I have to be creative in keeping the look of OEM but not neccessarily the functionality.

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Nov 2014
      Location
      Concord, NC
      Posts
      80
      Country Flag: United States
      Just to add a little to what nokones was saying. It is so stringent in CA that there are mobile SMOG inspection stations through out the state. I buddy I taught with is currently employed with CARB and is doing this. Law enforcement will direct you to them and they will shove a sniffer up the tailpipe to see if you are in compliance. If you have an "Altered or Engance vehicle" you will be instructed to pull to the side for a more detailed inspection.

      Nokones is correct in saying inspector WILL spot anything out of place. They are good at what they do. I even had one call me out on hollowing out a catalytic converter by looking at my welds. They looked better than factory or what most muffler shops can do. He never internally inspected them but he knew.

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Jan 2015
      Location
      Charlotte, NC
      Posts
      309
      Country Flag: United States
      You're good in NC..safety only on OBD1 cars. Especially in concord area...I can refer a few friendly inspection stations, provided you have legal tint, and a functioning exhaust system. Motor swaps are really hard for DMV to crawl up your rump on if it's done properly.

      A friend's shop just get a Mazda rx-8 with an LS2 inspected and pass with flying colors

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Nov 2014
      Location
      Concord, NC
      Posts
      80
      Country Flag: United States
      I'm sticking with the 350 in the Vette but I still have questions pertaining to the OEM smog equipment. If they are only doing to safety Che k, do they open the hood at all? Can I get rid of the AIR injection system and egr? Do I have to run cats? I was planning on running gutted hi flow cats but no cats would be better.

      Any referral would be appreciated. That way I can pick his brain as well.
      Mat
      1988 Corvette, AKA "Betsy"

      "May the Schwartz be with you!"





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