1969 Mustang Project Input

[69_Sportsroof]

I am on the verge of diving into a new project and selling my fox mustang which I've had for the past 7 years. I know it would be cheaper to start with my fox but I've just always wanted a 1969 fastback, and I moved recently and discovered there are several for sale near me for cheap that need full restoration(so I'd have my pick). I was an ASE master certified tech before I switched careers to an electrical engineer, so from a technical standpoint I have no fears for the project. I have never done serious bodywork however, and I only have my 2 car home garage to do all the work in. So I have a couple questions before I make my decision that I'm looking for input on:

Is it worth it for me to try to learn all the bodywork myself(I don't have a rotisserie currently, don't know if one could easily fit in a standard 2 car garage...), or should i get it media blasted and paint myself? Should I just pay a body shop to do the prep work?

This would be a car I take to auto crosses and track days, but I don't plan on wheel to wheel racing in a class since it will be 75% street duty. How far should I go on suspension mods? I've been reading about the trans am mustangs of years past and they seem to have been very capable handling wise. Budget isn't a huge issue since this build will take some time, but I don't want to spend three times the money to get 10% more performance for a car that isnt a dedicated race car. There don't seem to be many mustang builds on here, anyone know where they hide?

[Restomod]

Doing body work and paint very nicely is a steep learning curve so you may be better off farming that out. The suspension you can go as mild or wild as your bank account can handle. In my .02 the stock style on the street works good and can be improved nicely for a reasonable cost. Unless you go big block the ifs is not nessasary (having had and not liked one).

[Red67Mustang]

Start with a rust free car and your project will be 150% easier. The bodywork issue is really just a question of whether or not you want to learn it. If not, farm it out (or just buy a reproduction body shell).

These cars can handle pretty well with some basic upgrades like those from Opentracker Racing Products and others. I'm also inspired by the old Trans Am cars, but the level you can take one of these cars to now far surpasses what the old Trans Am cars could do.

I do recommend looking at CPP's integral power steering box for early Mustangs. That with my KRC pump have solved the sloppy steering feel these cars are famous for.

[69_Sportsroof]

I'll have to circle back to the body work once I inspect the cars closer then. I'm willing to learn, but I want a nice paint job and black is the color I was thinking, which shows everything.

Have you guys tried driving a first gen with rack and pinion steering? Is it worth the effort to get rid of the steering box? Every time I think of steering boxes I just remember steering wheels with lots of free play

[69_Sportsroof]

I guess for suspension, what mods would put me on par with modern sports cars? If I did the Shelby drop, roller perches, upgraded leafs, shocks/springs and decent tires would I still be lacking in handling? Ignoring driver capabilities, I'm just trying to get an idea of how far I want to go.

[Cyclone03]

Day 2 for me and something I know about...: )

I did my 68 Mustang in a 2 car garage 17' wide 18' deep with a 4" step on the house end with an extra 4' from there. Rotisserie would not fit , needs about 2' on each end. I also have a 12 x16' shed I used for parts storage,plus normal shed stuff and an area outside the garage for dirty work. Oh and I live in an HOA neighborhood so I had to do a lot of hiding.All my tools,welders,work benches are on wheels. Car on castors too.
Before I started the outside body work I did the floors and shock tower areas , fabricated and welded in subframe connectors,seem welded etc. Basically all the chassis and rust repair. I then started on the outside rust repair and body work. I then had the car soda blasted and epoxy primed , did some more body work then had 2 very heavy coats of high build primer shot on , I then spent at least a month of weekends sanding almost all of it off. After that the sealer and real base primer went on and light prep sanding the off to paint and clear. Sounds easy but that was about 2 years work. I did NO spraying at home I took the car to my painter for all those steps.

Now some gutchas....
Get your tires and wheels early in the body work stage,for the front just remove the springs and drop it on the stops clearance the fenders as required.
The rear is a little harder and where I messed up,on the 67-68's the tire hits the outer fender at about 2oclock on the left (10 on right),the fender arch sort of chops down. In time I'm sure I will just roll it out and repaint, but for now it rubs. On the 69-70 the front of the 1/4 get close too. Well only if you run a 28" or taller tire.
As for modern "feel" well....IMHO my Open Tracker front set up , basically every thing he sells, is incredible , get a good front spring, at least a 1" front bar (1 1/4" available now) and great shocks ,I have Bilstien Sports. I lowered my upper control arms 1.5" and have some camber gain now. On the front you want the lower control arm inner pivot and outer ball joint the same height from the ground at ride height but but no lower becuase the camber curve goes off if you do. Now I have an FE and my car weighs 3415 without me in it, so like I said get the right springs. You cant go wrong with Miear Racing for springs Global West seems to have good spring packages too. Now the rear, basically mine is leaf springs 5 1/2 leafs,too much for the street,no compliance or feel, just skip and slides,yes it sucks. Now IF you can keep throttle on and load the rear and let it step out it's fun but on the, only 3 , auto-crosses I have ever run power on it pivots pretty well,but, it's spinning so much it doesn't go forward. Sticky tires would help a lot to load the spring up and help it work. A 4 1/2 reverse eye spring would be better. Get either a Fays 2 watts link ( friend runs one on his 70 TA clone "transforms car he says" see Fays web site) or Maiers panard bar. All the above will help the car corner better than a 45 year old car should but it will not have modern feel at all,well maybe a modern truck.
Except for all the roller bearings and Del U Lum rear bushings my car is right out of the Boss 302 Chassis Manual.

Now Street or Track has a 3 link rear and a complete redo of the front that may (should?) get you much closer to modern but I dont have any experiences with it. But the reviews are good.

Of course Detroit Speed has a bolt(ish) in Corvette suspension package.....
I will add that my set up does help the car handle MUCH better than it ever did stock,except for the way stiff rear spring and thats really only a problem off throttle on turn in.
What was the question?

[69_Sportsroof]

Haha. I appreciate all the insight. I assume this will be a multi year project. I'll do some measuring in the garage. How do you like the steering feel(assuming you refreshed the steering box)?

[Schwartz Performance]

We also have a chassis system available for Mustangs. Our suspension has proven itself many times to be quicker than stock Corvettes. If the budget allows, it's definitely a good route to go. Sticky tires and more power isn't so good to the old unibody structure..
Let us know if we can help at all!



-Dale

[69_Sportsroof]

I've looked at your chassis before, do you have any specs on before and after total weights with the chassis installed? I do like the idea of "dropping" a body onto a frame

[Schwartz Performance]

I don't have an exact figure for you but it doesn't add any weight to the car.
You get rid of heavy leaf springs and replace with coilovers, front frame rails & shock towers, cast iron steering gearbox, etc. There's a lot of weight given up before adding the frame.
There is some fab required but you can do it with a powdercoated chassis, as there is no chassis welding required.

-Dale

[Cyclone03]

Haha. I appreciate all the insight. I assume this will be a multi year project. I'll do some measuring in the garage. How do you like the steering feel(assuming you refreshed the steering box)?

Steering,I forgot. Truth be told mine steers like a Mustang without power steering, Im using a flaming river 16:1 box,manual. The Borgson integral power steering box would be better.

If you want to start a flame war on a Mustang forum start post that says something about XXXXX rack and pinion has zero bump steer.

The thing about the Mustang Chassis is there are several schools of thought on chassis set up. Mine is pretty much a bolt on set up,I still have the springs and shocks in the stock locations and design.

The next for the front is all fabricated bolt on stuff,looks trick but is it faster?

Then you get to the more modern set ups , Maier , Street or Track ,ridetech and others.

Next we get to either complete chassis replacement,Schwartz stuff looks very good! Morison does one too.

Detroit speed front and rear setups look very cool too.

[SM69Mach]

I would suggest giving Shawn at Street or Track a call. He has everything from upgrades stock style stuff, to full Coil Over with tubular arms. I called and talked to him about the plans for my car and ended up settling on the coil over package for the front. Probably a bit overkill for what I do with the car, but it rides SO much better and it wasn't a huge increase in price from what I was originally looking at, and can upgrade with some simple changes if I want to in the future. I also got rid of the steering box in favor of the unisteer PS unit. My old steering box was wore slam out and with a big block I wanted a bit more help in the steering dept. Was a workout driving it before with no PS.

So far, I could not be happier with the set up. I kept the rear with stock leaf, so I certainly have some room for improvement there, just put on matching shocks for now.

Lots of options and great companies out there, just sharing my experience.

[Red67Mustang]

I have the StreetOrTrack 3-link rear on my car with the Bilstein coilovers. It has made a HUGE improvement in my ability to hook the rear and it rides great. For the front I have 620lb springs (cut) with OpenTracker Racing Products roller spring perches and a set to the camber plates to hold alignment. I have purchased but yet to install the tubular LCAs and Strut Rods from StreetOrTrack. For steering I have Classic Performance Products' (CPP) integral power steering box with a 12.9:1 steering ratio (good assist level, quick ratio, nice and tight box, and uses all factory manual steering linkage so there is no slop). That box is paired with a KRC aluminum pump. My R&P daily driver has more slop than my vintage Mustang.

I share this to say my car drives like a dream and I even still have a couple stock parts on the front (for not much longer...). So, yes you can make a classic car drive and handle like a late model. That said, all cars feel different so you'll need to get used to yours, but the precision of input and predictability that inspire confidence and define a great time behind the wheel can definitely be achieved.

One thing to note... You will need to stiffen the chassis. Weld the seams, subframe connectors, torque boxes both sides and if appropriate for your plans - some level of roll bar or cage. A stiff chassis is required for the suspension to do its job and result in a good handling car.

[Carl @ Chassisworks]

This would be a car I take to auto crosses and track days, but I don't plan on wheel to wheel racing in a class since it will be 75% street duty. How far should I go on suspension mods? I've been reading about the trans am mustangs of years past and they seem to have been very capable handling wise. Budget isn't a huge issue since this build will take some time, but I don't want to spend three times the money to get 10% more performance for a car that isnt a dedicated race car. There don't seem to be many mustang builds on here, anyone know where they hide?

To answer your last question first, Mustang builds tend to hang out on Mustang specific forums. However, IMO, the tech is rather thin on anything non-OEM based.

Total Control Products has been the top name in Mustang Suspension for almost 20 years. The rack and pinion is not the lowest cost option out there, but it's the only one designed from a blank sheet specifically for the Mustang. This means that it doesn't create bumpsteer, it maintains the stock centerlink travel, fits with common headers, and it strengthens the chassis too. None of the other options can claim all of these features.

There are several levels of TCP front suspension from simple shock upgrades, to bolt-in coilovers, to a complete front coilover system with upper arms, lower arms, and strut rods.

Here's a pic of '69 for ya. This customer is from Canada and does track days, autocross, and has run Drag Week the past two years. There are many more pics on the TCP Facebook page.



And this '70 was built by Steve at East Bay Muscle Cars. It has our Front Coil Over Conversion and g-Bar rear suspension.