Street Car Seat Belt and Seat Upgrade

[TheJDMan]

My take away from the ASM technology video is that it is designed to allow the upper body to rotate in the same manor as a factory 3 point shoulder belt would while at the same time providing 25% more belts to retain the body in the seat. From that standpoint alone a 4 point ASM equipped harness would be at the very least 25% safer than a factory 3 point on the street. In addition, with the ability to add submarine belts and the HANS compatibility I see no downside to using it on the track as well. The ASM technology is unique to Schroth and I know of no other belt manufacturer that offers anything similar which in my mind puts the ASM belts into a different category than non-ASM harnesses.

A quick look at the OG Racing web site shows a number of 4 point harnesses for sale from Sparco and a list of other harness manufacturers none of which incorporate ASM technology into their products. My take away on that is that OG Racing is basing their recommendation against 4 point harness use on their experience with the products they sell. From that standpoint I would have to agree, I would never install a non-ASM 4 point. However, as I said above the ASM technology puts the Schroth harness in a separate category in my mind.

Don't get me wrong I like OG Racing, I'm one of their customers, I purchased my Sparco seats from them. But I just feel the OG recommendations are based on experience with products they sell. To be honest, I would like to see OG Racing pickup the Schroth product line. Then when they get a customer that wants a 4 point harness they could sell one that is actually safe to use rather than sell 4 point harnesses for show only.

[manOwar]

I'm at he point of looking for seat belts so this thread is timely.

My car will mostly used on the street, however it will see some track and I don't want a 3 point and I don't want a fixed 4 or 5 point.

The Schroth Autocontrol II with ASM looks to be the best fit for all around use in a street car that see some track time with it's S.M.A.R.T (Sensor Modulated Automatic Restraint Technology).

[jerome]

I'm at he point of looking for seat belts so this thread is timely.

My car will mostly used on the street, however it will see some track and I don't want a 3 point and I don't want a fixed 4 or 5 point.

The Schroth Autocontrol II with ASM looks to be the best fit for all around use in a street car that see some track time with it's S.M.A.R.T (Sensor Modulated Automatic Restraint Technology).

Why not use 3 point on the street and a 6 point on the track?

[DSL]

Hey guys. New to the forum and wanted to get some feedback Seems that a lot of folks on this forum have been using the BMW M3 convertible seats with integrated seat belt to accommodate a shoulder restraint
Any opinions on this? It seems a all the reliance is in the floor mount.

[MonzaRacer]

Well after dealing with a shoulder injury because of twisting from factory crap a$$ three point harness in my last wreck I can tell you that when I wrecked a drag car( 4 endovers,then lays down and rolls 3 more times. I walked away after that while using 4 point harness and never moved from my seat). And HANS had never been heard of back then. Had some bruises on my shoulder but no injury. With 4 point harness. Every time I have had factory belts on in street cars I get hurt worse. And after having done Fords recall on the "shotgun shell" tensioner for seat belts and someone tells me a racing harness is less dangerous must have never wrecks with those POS setups on.
And now I have a 66 Caprice, lap belt only. I really think better belts and more bolstered seats would help, and I have asked many Indiana police and emergency personnel and they ALL say they would never complain if a person had them in a street car.
I have it from a VERY high up person at one of the race harness makers that more reason to down play street use is liability and such.
I watched a guy with a Cobra and a gopro and 4 point and car turned over and guy stayed put and ONLY got small scratch on top of his head .
I honestly have watched so many different videos of do use and don't use harness and as for me EVERY time I wear factory belts and wreck I get HURT.
And honestly in all instances of us in a racing harness I have never tried to come out from under a harness.
This is just my experience and personal opinion.
Again, so many negate using them on street, and say you HAVE to use a HANS device. And how many years did actual racer never even THINK on using something like them and survived just fine.
Now my Caprice is 4dr SportsRoof(hardtop with no post) and I have thought about a bar to attach 4 point too. Also this is because harness are cheaper than unknown quality reproduction 66 lap belts.
I have buddy who took his car to a chassis guy NAD that guy REALLY tucked the bars up and away, actually nearly next to body sheet metal and welded to car more completely than I had ever seen. He has complete interior and it pads and covers his cage.
He has many pictures, an actual full car xray or ct type scan showing where it is and how its attached. And he has several inspection flaps with snaps or Velcro.
But basically he was told a cage couldn't be safely integrated, then found a guy who did it.
I also like figuring out how do what others can't.
But that's me.

[j-c-c]

1. The OG premise of 4 points being a hazard in themselves I agree 100%
2. The OG linked video is motion propaganda, for the right intent, but with a wrong depiction.
3. An OEM 3 point is much better then any 4 point, no how tight, fastened, etc the 4 point is
4. #3 Died contacting a concrete wall at a closing speed of only 47? mph.
5. Ron Sutton is a sharp guy

My case, in our typical cars with upright seating, with normal distributed body mass, your human COG vertically is around your belly button. The typical lap belt os around your hips on all belt systems, ie below your belly button. Upon any sudden hard deceleration, your upper body rotates forward around the lap belt (remember, we are not talking lay down formula cars) , the upper body is restrained by the shoulder harnesses, and no matter how tight, they have more slack, and a softer more squishable anatomy to confine, vs the hip bones/pelvis, that movement simultaneously yanks the lap belt upwards, into the soft and very venerable non protected stomach/organ area ( as previously mentioned. The large upper body mass above the lap belt provides all the force for this upward motion of the lap belt/buckle, the only item to resist this motion is the "anti- submarine" belt. I think it is improperly named, but see little chance of that ever being resolved.

A halo seat makes sense.

A Hans type device makes sense.

A full cage that has ANY steel tubing ,,element within 12"? of a helmetless occupant at any speed makes as much sense as one likes getting hit in the head with an alum baseball bat unexpectedly, even it the bat has a 1/2" of nice pretty foam on it.

[Y-TRY]

I've been researching ( ie watching you guys argue) on this subject, hoping for a definitive conclusion. Still no "ah-ha!" revelation.

I have Corbeau CR1 seats (gasp! reclining!) and a DSE roll bar with removable rear brace. I had hoped to attach a 4-point harness for driving around and occasional track play, with the ability to remove the shoulders and brace if I need access to the back seat for whatever reason. I figured a new 3" lap belt would beat the 40 year old lap belts id be replacing. I think the best news is that I can cut a hole in the seats to add a 5th point/ASM. So that gives the option for 5/6 point harness. I can't imagine the look of a 3 point belt draped across nice racing seats.
I'm also not sure where to attach the ASM under the seat, though. To the floor? To the seat slider frame?

Also, I was thinking about installing ARP studs in the floor to attach the seats to, like you would a carb. Bad idea?

[j-c-c]

Based of my previously stated ASM comments, its first function in upright seating is to prevent the lap belt being pulled up by the shoulder harnesses, I have no quantitative data to back this next statement, but I suspect the ASM belt has the lowest stress of all the belts in a typical shunt, although its a very delicate region. However saying any one belt is not important would not be something I would ever share. Also realize, the 3 point can't be pulled up by the cross your chest belt, which is why its acceptable on the street. Driver performance is greatly enhanced by being snug in the car, and a 3 point doesn't cut it, as you have pointed out.