What is the next new trend?

[Smittys]

I am not trying to say safety is not important but... If I am driving on any road anywhere and I loose brakes it is way more dangerous then losing them on a race track. We can put 1000 crash videos on here. Auto crossing with K rail, Light poles trees curbs..... is pretty dangerous also. Hitting a pole at 50 will hurt.

Fyi anyone near Pittsburg should come out this weekend there is 60 cars registered for the event and it is going to be a good one!

[MonzaRacer]

One thought here.
I may not have much of a dog in this hunt but what if you put together a way to LIMIT top speed of cars based on inspections. A simple GPS based box can be built and make anyone attending have to incorporate the harness hook up. Simple ignition kill(rather than fuel based), hooks in to either a fuse for a main ground that completely kills car over set speed.
Guy rolls in with 78 Camaro and set of Cooper Cobras and side pipes and a mullet he get set at say 70-75, as long as front end and brakes check as road worthy.
Next guy has ex bracket car with 6/8 point, swing out bars, removable rear cross bar, V/W rated tires and helmet/basic suit limit too say 100 and so on.
I INTEND to install some form of cage/bar in my cars. On the Monza hoping I can get some help in mix/matching parts at ridetech to get a Tigercage figured out.
I do look towards reasonably priced tires over 40TW Hoosiers or others. I am looking at 200+ for TW as I cant afford to replace a set of tires going out, race, replace again.
This is just not in budget.
I DO how ever want to see if my car will work like I intend both road course and autocross.
I understand safety I also understand if I am required to invest more in my safety equipment for one time outing at a road course to SEE if car and I will work/function/get satisfaction there, all bets are OFF. Ill run off ramps and dream till I get a better job/business/rich dead uncle/lottery ticket.
A perfectly reasonable thing would be for someone to see if we could get some safety equipment people out to help owners/drivers SEE its use and importance, actually possibly build a reasonably priced amateur grade that still protects.
People like Bret at ridetech,BMR guys,Speed Tech guys, etc all have a vested interest in building safe stuff(cars) and having GOOD high end equipment, but they also have the funds to do so.
Reason I pulled these names are they are familiar and on top of my mind only.
Safety equipment could be produced and sold by all of the relevant parts brands but branded through them. Like Ridetech have a line of parts that could be had to match chassis. The payoff would be added brand loyalty, limited cost to customer and business. And promote more safety.
The producer makes basic profit, other handlers get small stipend or free advertising.
While I would love to own a full on road course safety equipment but after research its out of my league.
Just like I go to drag strip, I am told my car is only rated for say 7.50-8.0 in 1/8th mile so be it. I want to go faster I step up.
The GPS control would not be hard to build, heck even an old android device or Iphone could possibly do it but hard wired would make all players on same page.
Plug provides direct fused battery power, and kills car if you step out of speed bounds.
KISS is rule when on a budget, the guy with 1"x 1/8" drive shaft loop gets laughed at.
BUT honest and effective works. My buddy's car had 2x2 connectors stacked on sub and rear rails and welded in, big heavy but it worked. The DS loop was to say the least WELL over engineered, as in like 1/4" material x 3" or 4" . Also big pain in ASS.
BUT we did build rear suspension out of scrap metal. USed S0 slapper bars, cut off plates. I used some angle i had, welded to stock spring plates, welded the slapper bar to the angle and reinforced in back, swapped in a 3/8 bolt for snubber and guess what, between the pinion angle I set up and the slapper bars we only adjusted once and the car was a 60ft monster, always ran same numbers every night. Only tuning we needed was air pressure in tires. With worn out tires consistent, with slicks little faster, all running worn out 283(guy who bought it after he sold car took it apart and 7 pistons fell apart!) or mild 350.
Setting bar too high will eliminate people from participating at all unless they just come too spectate. Give us all a taste and many will step up.
BUT, there really needs to be some meeting in the middle, bring some basic safety, but keep it REAL LIFE affordable.
AS for me I intend to tuck my cage/bars as tight as I can, make sure they dont intrude into my car and its daily life.
If you build a $100k pro car you just built many of us our dream that is unobtanium.
Give me realistic goals, steps to better stuff. Heck I heard of a track down south that made drivers sell specific parts after X# of years, still servicable, but with age on it. Harness can be recertified, why not un wrecked helmets, HANS, etc.
Reasonably priced safety I can live with, new price keeps me at home dreaming. And saving (and hoping rich uncle passes soon).
As for track days, several medium events, spread across country.
Pick 4,5,6 big track days with road course events.
Sell levels in 3 or 4 ranges. smaller events can be 2-3 days, Kind of like Midwest Musclecar Challenge started out as. Kind of like Power tour with track time but not an exhausting fun week. Start on say a Friday, for fun/registration, let Saturday be the big day of fun and "competition" then wrap up after church,fun, lunch, awards etc.
I dont care if you bring said 78 Camaro in with 1000hp twin turbo LSx, your still limited by setup.
Biggest issue is keeping safety and cost limitations in check so as to not slap down little guy. Saw a guy with a LS powered Miata, went some where and they limited him in rpm, he had great day and agreed he would add some parts.
Remember, everyone HAS to crawl before they walk, some just dont want to have to buy a $1000 helmet to walk across living room.
And if an even cost a person a weeks pay OR more to run, your not gonna bring the car count.
Again sponsors are gonna play BIG part in defraying costs of events, cross/events as in pairing with other groups/sharing track time.
We all work together, we win and have fun and NOT break the little guys bank or vacation fund.
Sorry I got of on safety cost but it does play into WHY some events go big and others fall down on car count.
Power tour has daily join, or you can buy in for long haul at any point in event and drive as far as you can. did that at all event I went to for the goodie bag and event food(helped defray attendance cost).
Now one guy said no motorhomes, just tow a trailer. So the guy who sacrificed for 10 yrs saving for his motel on wheels so family can come with is out. Not good idea.
I know guys who drag race and live in their trucks most times, maybe a cheap motel to shower and wash clothes. His job is 4 10-12 hr days and most money goes to racing. He races every year, has no family to speak of and home is parents place left in will too him. It has a modest home, huge pole barn with full shop where he get s ready to race the next year. guy lived his race dreams but has no HOME to come too.
Everyone here for most part has home/wife/kids/job and those will most always take precedence over doing anything with cars, read it here all the time.
Actually if say couple events happened near Disney,Dollywood,other kid friendly venue, many might be able to expand vacation plans to little car fun time also. Most people I know doing the mouse ears thing save a lot, spend a week making that venue richer and giving kids a dream vacation. and it IS a sacrifice they generally dont regret, but they regret having some adult fun later on.
Every side needs to take a breath and meet somewhere useful or we all just go home and quit. Hit off ramps and local burger joints.
Maybe even someone like MSD (or others) could build said limit module, base it off a random cyl kill feature and let event controllers set it.
A bigger $500 event would be a once a year for me. sub $250 Might be able to hit couple of those, maybe. $100 venues are pretty easy to hit.
Saturday night cruise in/autocross, Sunday event could have small (non denominational) service for the church types, get a mid morning brunch, run off if small competition is ran night before and awards. Keep that weekend simple and fun. It could even be set up on holiday 3 day weekends, maybe near kids venue.
I remember one Power Tour event was near Kentucky kingdom, several dads dropped cars off, shook hands went and had few hours with kids. Great idea.
Just thoughts, ideas. Opinions.

[TheJDMan]

To be honest, we had drivers launch karts all the time climbing open wheels. I personally had one driver climb my rear wheel and his kart ended up on top of me. And just for the record, that B&S powered kart will run 100+ mph on a big track like Summit Point.

I don't have a good answer to the high speed safety issues our cars are now forcing us to address, other than reiterating that each driver has to be responsible for his/her own safety. To paraphrase, "A driver has to know their limitations". If a driver is not comfortable running their car over 100mph, then DON'T. I don't feel putting more rules in place such as "tires cannot be more than two years old" is the solution. My three year old DOT tires are perfectly legal for sustained 70mph hiway use but apparently not for a 20 minute HPDE track session? Such rules only serve to increase the cost to participants while having little real effect on safety.

[DTM Racing]

When it comes to litigation, it's generally not the deceased you have to worry about; it's the surviving family. The litigious nature of this country makes this type of stuff a ticking time bomb.

[gmbdabest]

Bill, will run through the hills be back in pigeon forge in 2015?

[67cougnut]

First off,

Thank you Bill for organizing an event up at Hot August Nights this year!!

It was a small turn out but you'd be surprised how many people had Zero Idea what was happening and where. More publicity would have probably helped. In the future if you decide to do it again, I have no problem hitting the streets local shows etc. with flyers and doing what I can, to get the word out.

I would agree that lack of safety equipment and Talent are of huge concern, Hell that's what attracts me to Auto X:
-I don't have Talent
-Speeds are low enough for the most part to keep it safe with no cage and the lay out is usually big enough to leave room for error
-cheaper then full track days
-last but not least: hitting someones car or someone hitting yours is PROBABLY not going to happen.

With the increasing amount of events being added every year including the addition of all the optima events now, the market is Just flooded with not enough cars to attend and when you really look at the caliber of car it takes to truly compete in these big events the pool of competitors gets even smaller, and for small timers like me who are still in the build process it gets very easy to get caught up in wanting to be competitive but then never completing your rig due to trying to get the latest and greatest and changing this and that, rather then put it together and get some seat time already.


So personally Bill I say setup some fun Events, it should be cheaper to setup, easier to get attendance and promote more of "everyone run what you brung" theme.

If you want to add some competition to it to live'n it up a little, offering an invite to Scottsdale or some sort of tire prize may help.

Just my .02

[GeoffP]

Can't believe I missed this thread before now. Glad to see all the input and my only .02 cents is a echo of what's already been said. More RTTH type events, lower cost, more emphasis on the fun aspect and keep it family oriented. While I have a car that I believe can hold it's own at an optima event, the driver (me) can't because I just don't have the time or money to gain the necessary experience to do well. I just want to be able to go out to a few well organized events like RTTH, have fun and be safe at the same time. I'll definitely be looking to go to Bill's new venture in Pigeon Forge, the Autorama and CHP's event in 2015 and I'm hoping for another RTTH if nothing else. That would certainly make for a dream event season for me.



Thanks for all you guys do!

[BMR Sales]

With the increasing amount of events being added every year including the addition of all the optima events now, the market is Just flooded with not enough cars to attend and when you really look at the caliber of car it takes to truly compete in these big events the pool of competitors gets even smaller, and for small timers like me who are still in the build process it gets very easy to get caught up in wanting to be competitive but then never completing your rig due to trying to get the latest and greatest and changing this and that, rather then put it together and get some seat time already.

You brought up some good points! With too many events, the Turnouts get lower as people can't afford to go to all of them. When you have small turnouts, the Price goes up if there is a 2nd Event. Then the Price affects what events you choose. We need to have bigger turnouts to encourage people on the edge to come out.

A couple of things about the optima events - some people seem to fear going thinking they can't compete with some of the established people & companies. It's about competition, but there is also the Social factor. Not everyone is going to Win, but everyone should have a Good time. The other thing about Optima Events, as more Imports & Modern Cars take part in these Events, will the Pro-Touring Guys get discouraged & look elsewhere?

[Red67Mustang]

The other thing about optima Events, as more Imports & Modern Cars take part in these Events, will the Pro-Touring Guys get discouraged & look elsewhere?

Yes. IMHO if it's not classic American, it's not Pro-Touring.

[SSLance]

I don't know about that, I have fun beating the imports and modern cars at the SCCA events I go to regularly, that's part of the fun.

[nokones]

It is definitely fun to beat up on the foreign cars but, that may not last long if the hot shoe foreign car drivers show up, and they more than likely will show up. Back in the 90's there was a huge Corvette turn-out at the SCCA Solo events. When they merged the Mazda RX7 Twin Turbo cars into the same class all the Corvette drivers left. That also happened when the EVO's were merged in the Street Prepared classes with the Camaro (ESP) and Corvettes (BSP).

[Rat Fink]

I'll add my .02 in here, the cost is the major limiting factor. Right now, my car is not up to the safety standards needed to enjoy one of these events, I autocross, but a race course is out of the question. I definitely don't want to be out there with someone "racing to win" with no experience and my big old Ford, that could spell disaster for me. If the costs was lower, more emphasis on autocross, cruising, speed stop, and some novice class track time, I would love to participate. Driving 10/10ths in my old Ford is a scary idea for all involved, even with the planned upgrades to brakes and suspension. I want it to be on par with a modern car like a Mustang or Camaro, not a 'Vette and certainly not a race car. I like the touring part of pro touring too much to do too much to it.

[BMR Sales]

I don't know about that, I have fun beating the imports and modern cars at the SCCA events I go to regularly, that's part of the fun.

Lance, it is Fun when you are doing the Beating, but when you start getting spanked by Twin Turbo Porsches with Huge Brakes, the fun starts to fade.

For example, years ago I had a Porsche 914 2.0 4 Cylinder Car - it out handled just about anything and was powerful enough to be competitive. Yes I would get passed on the Straights, but I carved them up in the Corners. Then came the Computerized Big HP, Big Brake Cars and I was running around by myself at the back of the field. So I put in a Twin-Plug 911S motor for double the HP, but I also had to upgrade the Brakes etc. After a year of working on it, the other cars had gotten faster too! It got depressing and I sold it (it's in England now).

[nokones]

I think SCCA is trying to bring back the old Solo I events. They are calling these events Solo Trials which is nothing more than a faster autocross course and they are not held on road race courses. I think these events would be a lot of fun and definitely a lot safer.

[BMR Sales]

I'll add my .02 in here, the cost is the major limiting factor. Right now, my car is not up to the safety standards needed to enjoy one of these events, I autocross, but a race course is out of the question. I definitely don't want to be out there with someone "racing to win" with no experience and my big old Ford, that could spell disaster for me. If the costs was lower, more emphasis on autocross, cruising, speed stop, and some novice class track time, I would love to participate. Driving 10/10ths in my old Ford is a scary idea for all involved, even with the planned upgrades to brakes and suspension. I want it to be on par with a modern car like a Mustang or Camaro, not a 'Vette and certainly not a race car. I like the touring part of pro touring too much to do too much to it.

Disaster happens when people drive over their heads!