What is the next new trend?

[Bill Howell]

Good morning everyone! I happen to be in Colorado for the day with nothing to do. That gives me time to think and that can be scary. The 2014 season is winding down now and looking back over it as a promoter of events it has certainly been interesting.
Going into the year, knowing what was on the horizon, we decided to back off on full out race events for a couple of reasons. The major concern then and even now is the fact I felt speeds had surpassed safety requirements and talent.
The second reason from a promoter's point of view, we questioned was the event schedule over saturated. My opinion is we were correct. Other than LS fest, which is a bit different than the others and draws a different crowd with drag racers, all other events all suffered from poor turn out. As someone who puts my personal money on the line I have to wonder why would I continue down this seemingly dead end path? I know that currently there are less than 500 participants nationwide that bring out their pt cars to these events. When you have 20 events across the country the numbers just don't work.
So here is why I started this thread... What direction are we headed? I have done events for ten years now. RTTHs started with 13 friends meeting to have fun and play with our cars. Drag race, cruise and bench racing...that was our only agenda. That event has always sold out and has always been structured more to fun not so much the competition. Then came Motorstate then others and now we are where we are.
If you had to create an event based on what you like what would you do? Do you see a structured sanctioned series or do you prefer a more fun based event where competition isn't the main focus?
This year we have focused on associating with already established events and adding the autocross element to those events. We feel this has added people and cars to our hobby and we want them to decide to what level they want to participate with their cars. I will continue this direction next year as it has been much more fun and rewarding to see new people discover this small nitch we call protouring than to see participation dwindle to the same 30 cars at the smaller venues.
I feel that the general pt membership here has spoken LOUDLY this year simply be not showing up at venues regardless of the promoter.
What does it take to get you out from behind your computer and at an event? Are you wanting more fun or more competition?

All comments and opinions welcomed on this on guys! Please speak your mind and don't be concerned with other opinions.
Thanks!

[BADNBLK]

Hope your enjoying our first fall day here. Where are you at anyway?

For me I put my best effort to be involved in every event that offers autocross, and keeps it FUN... that is local to me within reason. There is very few events that offer the fun factor, but as you said the more you introduce the autox to more people I think this will continue to grow. Its hard to not grow an event and not have the competitive edge grow with it. I like winning (doesn't happen much) just like the next guy, but I don't want to take my car to a level where it really is bordering on a "racecar". I have kids and I need to keep things calm enough to take the car to an event on street tires, have fun, and drive home with a smile knowing my son thinks his dad is a race car driver LOL.

I wish there was a centrally located track somewhere in the middle of the country where east could meet the west, south meet the north, and have a long weekend wearing out tires and twisting shocks... *cough High Plains... Bill

[tflyboy77]

FUN!! That is what started this and it's what we all love to do. No one (with the exception of promotors" wants to drive half way across the country and spend $500 just to be on TV. At that point of the commitment this turns into a job instead of a fun hobby. Not to mention that most of us have jobs, family's and mortgages.
I loved the ASCS events and they are what got me started but with the lack of fun cheap events this year, I spent most of my time with my regional Scca and did very well to boot.
In short.....Bring back the fun Bill.

[PT Sportwagon]

Bill, I can see what you are saying. With 20 events it can be over whelming for participants. ( yet none around the rocky Mtn area) With the price of just about everything being up. Some people can only afford to attend certain events. One thing you may have to ask is how many Pro-touring cars ( not counting some of the 500) want to really tear their car up in competition. RTTH is seems to be one event where the driving is one of the drawing factors. Driving meaning just that driving, touring the great Smokie Mtns. Look at the Dragon it is a fun road to drive but with the LE presence. speed limits, and other traffic. You really cannot haul the mail.( too much, LOL) Do all the participants of RTTH drag race?
Most people drive a modern car as a daily driver, They build a pro-touring car because they want that modern comfort in their vintage car. Most of the Pro-Touring related businesses started for this very fact, making a vintage car more comfortable, Ride Tech and Vintage Air to name a couple. The competition aspect of the hobby blossomed from there, But few want to compete with their car. They are happy to just drive their modernized vintage car. Attending events where they can meet other like minded people and enjoy the friendship. Touring with their car and bench racing.

Tim

[k7king]

Thanks Bill for all you've done. I really enjoy your events and had a blast at RTMC and RTTH's last year. I enjoy the events where I can beat on my car but don't have to worry about crashing it at 100+mph. Mostly auto crossing and some of the smaller road courses. I think you are on a good path introducing auto crossing to new venues by having them at different existing shows. I wish I was coming to Cruising the coast. I'm excited to see what you have planned for next year.
Mike King

[rchaskin]

Next new trend......Muscle drift....LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKuL4u_c0RI

I like Autocross, drift and drag, in that order.

The Chevy high performance event at Atlanta dragway is the most fun event that I go to.
There is Autocross and drag, and you get so many autocross runs, that you can throw a few of them away to see if you can drift the whole track....

I also prefer Friday - Saturday events.

Just my 0.02!!

Also, more events around Charlotte motor Speedway, or Zmax Dragway.
These are awesome places to Autocross.

[SSLance]

Just from my perspective, my wife and I are doing a lot of soul searching about which way we'd like to head in regards to events in the future. I told her when I got back from the USCA event at Gateway that if I could do 2-3 of those a year, I'd quit local SCCA racing. Then I went to the SCCA Solo Nationals for the first time and had a great time there as well. It appears that I'm liking running at the bigger events over the smaller local events because of the increased seat time available. But this comes with a price. It's not just the entry fee, it's the travel costs, hotel rooms, supplies and consumables for the car, time away from home and family etc.

For us, we are trying to figure out a way to travel to away events in comfort, with a comfortable place to hang out in and a place for the wife and dogs to go when watching the racing gets to be too much. A motorhome, a toy hauler trailer, a truck camper...so many choices and they all cost money.

I understand where Bill is coming from on the promoter side of things, I'm sure there are tough decisions to be made again this offseason. I've only had a small taste of the large travel to events though and I like it. A lot...

I would travel to an event at High Plains in a heartbeat if a vote in that direction counts at all. Whatever event is within easy driving distance and offers the most seattime is going to get my attention. Schedule is the only other factor but that's a whole 'nuther complication.

[srh3trinity]

I like the idea of fun events. The USCA is cool and we get to see some of our favorite cars on tv battle it out, but i think I would be overwhelmed to be around all of those guys pushing for every tenth. I fully intend on making it to a RTTH or another ASCA event when my car is completed. That has always seemed to set the standard for fun in the PT community and I trust you and your associates will continue to build on that event as the one that started it all.

[b17brian]

I’m a new guy to pro-touring, but am fascinated by the prospect of getting my car on the track and autocrossing. I’ve watched the videos of others autocrossing and gone to a local SCCA event. But I’m still transforming my car from a mid-performance ‘80s street car to a pro-touring car on a low budget and no support from the wife. So as much as I want to go to the major events I can’t, because that will take $$$ from the car. And since competition is a long time away it’s about the fun for me. I plan on going to Cruisin The Coast again this year and will check out the autocross event there. Thank you Bill and others that promote these events.

[eric1967]

I think you are right about the number of events verses the number of competitors. It seems a lot of the events are becoming more pro & less touring. Maybe we need to get back to the way things got started. Cruising in a pack of cars is a great time as well as autocross or track days. This year I would have loved to attended the Run to Music City but with many other event around that time I did not make it. I believe it was scheduled kind of late in the year & I had other events already planned. May help to get the schedule out sooner. Maybe I just missed the info when planning out events for the year.

We need to get more people involved. I have lots of friends with cars that will not get them out. I am not sure how to help this. I think beginners are intimidated by being in the same class as very experienced drivers & cars that look more like race cars. They think that they need a race car to compete.

I would love to see some more shootouts at autocross event. In 2013 at Ls Fest they had a 64 car shootout in the 3s challenge. It was lots of fun to compete in & too watch. I was disappointed when they did not do that again this year. The shootouts could have cars with similar times competing together. In 2013 most everybody stayed to watch the shootout. This year many cars left by noon.

Bill it is nice that you started this thread to give everyone a chance to tell their ideas. I think cost is a huge factor. My bracket race buddies think I am nuts when I tell them about a $500 dollar entry fee to an event that pays nothing. I am not sure prize money is the answer, but maybe things could be structured so there are some new faces in the winners circle. Just a few of my thought. Look forward to hearing more ideas.

Thanks
Eric

[cluxford]

I'm not US based, Live in Australia, but spend a lot of time over there. I see the same thing in both places. Large high cost events that have big promoters behind them, that while are amazing in bringing out the super talented drivers and cars, are often too far or too costly for the average punter. My view and this is something that I think would work in both the US and Australia, is to franchise event management. Make it so a local car club can set up, run and deliver a local fun event, that is low cost, easy to get to and easy for people to participate in. many car clubs run various events, but not Auto-X or other course based events as they are too hard and too many overheads, too many logistics. The ability toe et up a registration website, cover insurances, get timing equipment rented, a logistics plan, a resource plan etc would make it a lot easier for local clubs to run events. The event managers get a cut of the takings to cover their costs / profits. This way a local club might only run an Auto-X with say 30-50 cars, or even less. But it's affordable. There might be some form of qualification to large more state based events in the longer term.

My view is that the large events almost exclude participation, they make it hard for people to get involved be it cost, time, location etc....franchise it and make it local....

[DTM Racing]

I've gotta say, I'd love to see it get dialed back a bit. Make it a 3 day mini powertour or something. Cruising, Drags, Autocross and a HPDE style track day(no times). I've said it since my first event with you guys in 2010, it needs to be all fun or all competition. If it's going to be competition, I hate to say it, but it needs RULES. It's unlimited rigth now and there are some serious nukes being tossed around. I say eff the competition, eff the rules, and lets all just go out and have a good time. No sponsor money, no checks at the end at SEMA, no TV, just dudes and their cars, having a blast. I agree with the statement a few posts up. These things are getting way too pro, and not nearly enough touring. I think it scares away the little guy.

[srh3trinity]

I may be in the minority, but I like the idea of a cruise from one town to the next. Some type of back road cruise from one cool restaurant to another restaurant and autocross the next day. Kind of like a mini Power Tour with an autocross.

[BonzoHansen]

I had a blast at the rtts event. But for the next year and a half I am too tied up with my son's baseball to do anything too far or even scca race. So in whatever spare time I have I am concentrating on getting my car power tour ready in 2017 or 2018. Then rtth and then maybe cruising the coast. Put the tour back in pro-touring is my goal lol.

[SSLance]

I think cost is a huge factor. My bracket race buddies think I am nuts when I tell them about a $500 dollar entry fee to an event that pays nothing.

How many events would the bracket racers have to enter to get the same amount of seat time that we got at Gateway? And then throw in the high caliber instruction available plus the road rally and BBQ. I was maybe a bit hesitant about the initial entry fee at first as well, but by the time I was done I was amazed at the value the event provided. I'll say this too, I never once felt intimidated or uneasy about the high end cars and drivers there, hell I wanted to run with them. Everyone seemed to want to help everyone else run better, no matter the skill or car level, that's what it was all about.

I think it's the other way around, it might be possible that people shy away from competitive based events like that because they don't want to run their cars that hard...and that is okay too. I've never been to any of Bill's events, but I've heard nothing but good things about them. I actually think my wife would be a more wiling participant to an event like that over a competitive type event like USCA, which would lead me to try one of them as well. Again, somewhere in the middle of the Country would be great. ;)

I'm active with our local SCCA autocross and see what we go through on a regular basis to get those events to happen, and it's no picnic either. They face many of the same challenges, how to get cars out, make events run smooth, find places to hold events...it's a tough row to hoe. You have to be flexible and give the drivers what they want to get them to come out.

[TheJDMan]

I agree, less emphasis on competition and more on fun. There are so many events being organized these days that I could literally attend something every weekend if I wanted to. With so many events available to choose from cost becomes a big issue at some point. How about a rally over the Tail of the Dragon or some similar twisty road in the Blue Ridge.

[Tomswheels]

Bill, the most fun I've had in my car was at the Run to the Coast events at El Toro. At $180 per day you got a ton of track time, and I loved the Speed Stop / Autocross/ Road Course format. The USCA event I went to at Fontana was a similar format, and a good amount of track time, but it did seem a bit more serious, like guys were there to win more than hang out. The fact 1/2 the people paid for covered pits and half didn't kind of separated us during down times. I enjoyed it, but not quite as much as RTTC. Our local SCCA events have a great pro-touring turnout, and we bring a BBQ and food, and this makes it much more fun than going to an SCCA event alone. I guess that's what I would strive for providing to us, camaraderie between laps and at lunch, and larger Autocross courses and any size Road courses. The smaller Autocross tracks I've been to at Fontana this year where the top speed is 40 MPH or less can get boring.

[Cobra 498]

Bill, the most fun I've had in my car was at the Run to the Coast events at El Toro. At $180 per day you got a ton of track time, and I loved the Speed Stop / Autocross/ Road Course format. The USCA event I went to at Fontana was a similar format, and a good amount of track time, but it did seem a bit more serious, like guys were there to win more than hang out. The fact 1/2 the people paid for covered pits and half didn't kind of separated us during down times. I enjoyed it, but not quite as much as RTTC. Our local SCCA events have a great pro-touring turnout, and we bring a BBQ and food, and this makes it much more fun than going to an SCCA event alone. I guess that's what I would strive for providing to us, camaraderie between laps and at lunch, and larger Autocross courses and any size Road courses. The smaller Autocross tracks I've been to at Fontana this year where the top speed is 40 MPH or less can get boring.

I have to agree my favorite events over the past 3-4 years were RTTC: great courses, fast but safe and above all fun to be there. I was very sorry to see that the site was not available for more events.

[Project92rs]

As someone who will drive as far as it takes to get to an event, it has to be fun. We've been to Run to the Coast (somewhat local for us) the last 3 times it was held. We drove to Pigeon Forge for RTTH (definitely not local to Phoenix) in 2013. This year's trip involved Run to Music City, SCCA Nationals, and LSFest. While we might not do SCCA again, if RTMC is scheduled within a week or two of LSFest we'll do that one again. Same for RTTH.



Having fun is what got us started running Super Chevy and then RTTC. Not having much fun is why we probably won't go back to SCCA Nationals. We know our car isn't in the same league as some of the other cars in terms of power. We also know we're years worth of seat time behind many of the other drivers. We expect to not finish first and hope to finish in the top half of the pack. But mainly we want to have a good time doing it. As long as the events stay fun, we'll keep planning vacations to attend and have a good time.

[NJSPEEDER]

The events you have are fantastic, I had so much fun at the Jersey event a few years ago without even getting to drive. I think the biggest factor is the cost, or cost vs risk as it were.

For so many people, especially younger enthusiasts, the cars they would be competing in are daily drivers and must be relied upon. So the price of entry along with risking their way to work is a legitimate fear.

I do think the call for some more safety equipment would be legit. It is so easy to make power nowadays (did that just make me sound old?) that even a moderate budget can put the ability to crest 100mph multiple times per lap under the right foot of a high schooler with their first job. Does some kid who's license hasn't even cooled off sound like the best person to put out on a big track?

To some degree i think that points to a third possible direction, is sort of splitting the event a possibility? Maybe have an entry for inexperienced drivers or cars without big track safety equipment that gets a few paced touring laps and participates in autoX and speed stop. Then have the big kids class that does hot laps of the big track as well. Along with a lower cost for autox it would be an opportunity for younger or inexperienced drivers to get their feet wet and with SCCA, NASA, or other club support at the events it would be easy to find people that can ride along with the newbs and give pointers.

I also think you could add some fun and participation in by adding a second division to the event. Since there is a compound minimum to keep things in the spirit of being street cars maybe offer a split. Anyone at or over the compound point is the street champ and anyone under the compound minimum gets a trophy as race car champion. I think it would go a long way to opening up the events to a broader market and getting a larger audience talking about putting together fast street cars to try to find their way to the optima shoot out.

The last thing I would suggest, and I know it's not necessarily the most popular suggestion on a muscle car site, is that the marketing really could be opened up a lot to include the import/sport compact crowd. They are less expensive and much more common cars. They are also a huge market for a lot of current and potential vendors and sponsors.

I hope the events continue long enough for me to put together something to actually compete.

-Tim