Targa Truck '71 GMC build - The first truck in Targa Newfoundland.

[bovey]

So some photos showed up! And with them a story about planning ahead that worked out - accidentally.

Back when I built the LS 427 in 2010, the front drive options were minimal. Most people went with factory stuff, or there was some show and shine type stuff that scared the hell out of me. Then I found Wegner Motorsports. Yowza. Wicked, wicked stuff and could handle serious rpm. However, it was costly. But costly for a reason, when you bought there front drive kit, you got everything, the ATI damper, a Stewart water pump, alternator, everything. And it was designed to work with my GM distributor conversion, which it turned out Wegner designed for GM.

So I bought the WAK11 kit, super tidy set-up, mine is anodized black, but it looks like this. Worked and looked great. compact and sexy. Better yet the tensioner and pulleys are easy to find.



But I'm swapping over to a dry sump, so I called Wegner and it turns out I can use most of my kit and just buy a few pieces to for their new race LS set-up. Super handy. I thought it was going to be a complete replacement type deal and drop a wad of cash. Nope. WIN.



Then some bad news, I was taking to Casey (Wegner) and he said this would not work because I was going to street drive the truck and this was their full race set-up and designed to operate ONLY at high rpm. Basically, none of the accessories drives would work properly.

BOO.

But then he offered up a different solution, he had made the piece below for a guy building a crazy LS powered pre-runner truck and they had made a couple, just in case. So he sold me this. Basically, it keeps the water pump and accessories going and the right rpm an has room for the dry sump pump drive cog. NEAT.




THANKFULLY, Casey sent me photos of the part and I realized there was no provision for the power steering. Back to the drawing board. But after a quick back and forth about space, he sent me this photo which is a newer set-up (WAK-23), I only need the power steering bracket on the driver's side head. I own everything else, and the new crank drive above solves my dry sump issue.



Thankfully, Wegner designs their parts with interchange in mind so they can accommodate different needs. This is a great example of paying a little more up from for quality parts (US made to boot), and having karma pay you back later with an inexpensive upgrade for when your build needs to grow.

[LT1C1500]

So some photos showed up! And with them a story about planning ahead that worked out - accidentally.

Back when I built the LS 427 in 2010, the front drive options were minimal. Most people went with factory stuff, or there was some show and shine type stuff that scared the hell out of me. Then I found Wegner Motorsports. Yowza. Wicked, wicked stuff and could handle serious rpm. However, it was costly. But costly for a reason, when you bought there front drive kit, you got everything, the ATI damper, a Stewart water pump, alternator, everything. And it was designed to work with my GM distributor conversion, which it turned out Wegner designed for GM.

So I bought the WAK11 kit, super tidy set-up, mine is anodized black, but it looks like this. Worked and looked great. compact and sexy. Better yet the tensioner and pulleys are easy to find.



But I'm swapping over to a dry sump, so I called Wegner and it turns out I can use most of my kit and just buy a few pieces to for their new race LS set-up. Super handy. I thought it was going to be a complete replacement type deal and drop a wad of cash. Nope. WIN.



Then some bad news, I was taking to Casey (Wegner) and he said this would not work because I was going to street drive the truck and this was their full race set-up and designed to operate ONLY at high rpm. Basically, none of the accessories drives would work properly.

BOO.

But then he offered up a different solution, he had made the piece below for a guy building a crazy LS powered pre-runner truck and they had made a couple, just in case. So he sold me this. Basically, it keeps the water pump and accessories going and the right rpm an has room for the dry sump pump drive cog. NEAT.




THANKFULLY, Casey sent me photos of the part and I realized there was no provision for the power steering. Back to the drawing board. But after a quick back and forth about space, he sent me this photo which is a newer set-up (WAK-23), I only need the power steering bracket on the driver's side head. I own everything else, and the new crank drive above solves my dry sump issue.



Thankfully, Wegner designs their parts with interchange in mind so they can accommodate different needs. This is a great example of paying a little more up from for quality parts (US made to boot), and having karma pay you back later with an inexpensive upgrade for when your build needs to grow.

times like these are what make me want to buy, own, and know wtf I'm doing on a Bridgeport.

[bovey]

I'd love to build more of my own parts too. But time. Ugh. Also, I don' have time for the R&D. Companies like Wegner (for example) are invaluable when it comes to that. They partner with various companies to build serious stuff. I need proof the parts work, more than the satisfaction of building my own part.

I realize this type of thinking dips our toes into the 'built or bought' conversation, but I'm more about the vehicle is "On Jack Stands ON On Track" and for me 'On Track' is far more
important. I spent 8 years building the entire truck the first time - never, ever, again.

[Badbowtie383x]

Bovey thats awesome everything is working out and cant wait to see more pics of progress. We love pics, so bring em on.

[Dr G]

Nice. I actually get pretty excited about a well thought out and constructed accessory drive system. Something "track ready" vs. the usual billet-n-bling street machine stuff you see around.

[bovey]

Tonight I'm bringing a slightly different update. It's courtesy of a fellow racer, someone I met during the Targa Newfoundland in 2014.

In the 2014 event, he told me he was building a car to compete. I wished him well and followed his progress. He ended up building one hell of a car, an Evo. Epic 'cage, a well built car. The 2016 Targa just finished this past Friday.



However, things did not go as planned, they made an error and met the end of their race prematurely and violently. This photo looks rather cushy, he assures me it was not.



Once the car was dragged out, they were more able to appreciate the scope of the damage.



The above photos are what were shared online, socially. I contacted him and asked if it was cool to share the photos here and asked him some questions.
He agreed, as he was happy with how the car saved them from serious injury.

Injuries. There were some. The co-driver escaped anything serious. He did need to spend the day in the hospital having scans and x-rays, there were concerns about his spine, due to the impact. He was able to get home that night, find a driver, find a car and continue in a lower class, for fun.

The driver, who is also the owner and builder of the car was not so fortunate. His knee below for example, is broke in half.



Total injuries include a broken left knee cap, 2 broken ribs, a dislocated thumb and a nice full body hurt.

I took note of the knee cap, it made zero sense to me. He explained to me that the sideways nature of the hit, bashed his knee on the door braces.

I asked, but were they not padded? He said yes, with roll bar padding, but not the SFI kind. I did not tell him this but the difference in price is about $7CAN for the SFI stuff. FYI - regular roll cage padding is only good for insulating hot water pipes, at best. The foam roll bar padding you see on every drag car should be illegal - it's too soft and when you hit it during an accident it compresses fully and you hit the metal bar anyway. Spend the extra few bucks on the SFI stuff, a few companies make it.

That being said, I'm going to inspect my padding by my legs. I have SFI padding on my door brace, but my front down bar (not currently padded) is very close to my shine/ankle area.

Back to the car. I've asked for interior stress-point photos inside the car, but AFTER his knee heels.

But here is the underside. The car is hurt everywhere. However he has started teardown and believes the core of the car is fine. I have yet to ask him if he knows the car is still square, or not.





So, how fast do you think he was going? The limit in the Targa Newfoundland is 120ish MPH. Got a number?



They were doing 85 mph when the hit. Eighty-freaking-five miles per hour. Hell, we've all done that on a highway. Right???

I thought this post might be a good share. I know most people are just AutoXing or doing the occasional track day. I am building the Targa Truck to take on more open road events, so I'm looking into this with great interest. Just like I am following along the findings of Big Red's fire. Things happen, we don't want them to, especially to fellow racers our ourselves, but they do.

This all reminds me it's best to build for the unforeseen things, and build them so you can go fast another day. Which is the case here, they have already started the teardown, and are planning the rebuild, and return to the starting line.

Be safe my friends, be fast too.

[bovey]

I need to find, then lose or move weight off the nose, the back is fine for now. At first, it seemed like a make work project stripping down the truck. However, given the number of missing or loose bolts; this turned out to be great idea.

It's not rocket science, other than getting the wiper arms off without scratching the paint. No matter how many times I do this, I always for get the trick. Eventually, I won. Pop over to the Targa Truck Facebook page if you want to see a stop motion gif thing... Benny Hill style.



Kinda amazing how small these trucks make 295 tires look.


And there has been some doubt about my set-up, that I'm hiding something fancy. Nope. Just boring stock stuff, with exception to the CCP sway bar, springs and spindles.


Next up, a scale. In a perfect world, I'll loose some weight, which should be easy as I'm tearing out the heater, cutting out the factory firewall, rewiring with lighter components, the bulky factory pedals and column will be replaced with lighter parts. I'm thinking a lexan rear and side windows might be in the mix too.


The goal is to loose or move 400 lbs to achieve a 50/50 front rear bias. I suspect I'll end up in the middle, loose some weight, move some weight. And ideally take the weight out of the stuff that is higher, like the hood, windows, etc. Time will tell.

[kingcrunch]

Yep, tires just "disappear" under trucks...

I'd say carbon fiber parts (hood, bumper, fender skins)... or punch speed holes into every sheet metal parts inner structure.
Get rid of the frame horns and replace them with bolt on aluminum outriggers.
R&P conversion should save some weight as well, but i think the most weight is in the sheetmetal. Prove me wrong and i will have to rethink my own approach as well.

[bovey]

Yep, tires just "disappear" under trucks...

I'd say carbon fiber parts (hood, bumper, fender skins)... or punch speed holes into every sheet metal parts inner structure.
Get rid of the frame horns and replace them with bolt on aluminum outriggers.
R&P conversion should save some weight as well, but i think the most weight is in the sheetmetal. Prove me wrong and i will have to rethink my own approach as well.

Agreed. Hood and bumper for sure. The fenders will stay metal as the cost vs. weight saved will not be a good enough. I may also look at "offshore" front fenders as they are made with a thinner gauge. Does anyone acid dip anymore? Might build an aluminum rad support. A fellow pt member (GEARBOXGARAGE) introduced me to Auto Rad aluminum core supports, but I'd have to modify it to death - photo from their web-site below.



I'd like to note that the above paragraph is very expensive. I suspect I'll be working with what I have, and putting the money into the major changes that I'm doing now that will ideally set me up properly for the chassis build.

There is not a lot of weight to be saved from punching holes in the inner structure of the front body panels. If I remember correctly, Rob at No Limit did an artful job of punching holes in the original factory hood for Hellboy, and after all the work he had saved 7lbs. There are easier and better ways for me to save 7 lbs at this point, but it does all add up... so.... where is .. my hole saw...



The actual skins of the body are thick, thus heavy. It seems that with every evolution of truck designed, the manufacturing process got better and they were able to use thinner and thinner metal down to the tinfoil body panels we find on modern cars.

I'm very curious to see what can be achieved by moving all of the electronics, etc from the firewall to the back wall of the cab. All the wiring, heater, and the factory pedal assembly are a 100 lbs easy. And the new pedals are floor mount, reverse mount MCs for easy maintenance.



I'm leaving the steering alone for now. It'll get changed when the chassis gets replaced.

[kingcrunch]

Maybe not the conventional type of idea but what about replacing that foremost crossmember with one replicated in aluminum?
Hollow sway bar saves a few pounds as well.

What about the bumper? Do you have a source for that?
I am done with modifying my proto-bumper and hope to be able to move that to the company making the carbon fiber copies of it...
They said they could pull about 80 pieces from that mold.

[bovey]

Maybe not the conventional type of idea but what about replacing that foremost crossmember with one replicated in aluminum? Hollow sway bar saves a few pounds as well.

What about the bumper? Do you have a source for that?
I am done with modifying my proto-bumper and hope to be able to move that to the company making the carbon fiber copies of it...
They said they could pull about 80 pieces from that mold.

The chassis is staying largely untouched. If I get my way, it will only be under the truck for another year or 2.

Most of the body parts available for these trucks are the early C10 parts. As this is a later design GMC, the front end stuff inducing the bumper are slightly different. I want to keep it a GMC, so I have to figure out these details. Maybe I shouldn't care, but I do.

Major surgery is now booked, the truck with be going under the plasma cutter soon. I've been looking at the cab trying to figure out where to cut it.

I've come up with this plan, to start anyway.

If anyone has suggestions or has cut one of these, please advise. Thank you in advance.

This is basically what is coming out. Most of it has so many holes from the factory, or is in the way of me moving the engine. As the steering column, heater, and pedals are getting changed, I'm starting fresh.



I think leaving the door pillar alone is smart, but the vent area is gone I believe. I want to cover up the vents for safety anyway. But I do want to figure out an alternate plan for fresh air. Also, doing it something like this keeps all my factory panel mounting points to keep it easier to put back together.



Either we will cut the front floor seam OR cut it just in front of the body mount brace. The floor needs to be remade to suit the floor mounted tilton pedal box. Not sure what all has to come out from the trans tunnel. I figure well trim and trim until the engine/trans are sitting the right spot and build around them.




Not sure what addition safety (i.e. bars) I need or want around my feet. Need to do some homework there.

[Ethereal]

So the goal of a rebuilt firewall is to save weight I assume, but what will you replace it with, and how much weight do you expect it to save? I've got some hood hinges sitting on a shelf and those are 10lbs on their own I bet.

Re: radiator support, I bet you could fab up a lightweight skeleton/frame style support right? No reason that it has to be a solid sheet of metal afaict.

[bovey]

So the goal of a rebuilt firewall is to save weight I assume, but what will you replace it with, and how much weight do you expect it to save? I've got some hood hinges sitting on a shelf and those are 10lbs on their own I bet.

Re: radiator support, I bet you could fab up a lightweight skeleton/frame style support right? No reason that it has to be a solid sheet of metal afaict.

The primary goal of the rebuilt firewall is to accommodate the new engine placement, to move weight back. Some weight will be saved, I'm not sure how much yet - depends what happens to the rigidity when we cut it. The factor firewall has a number of layers, I'll be replacing it with .060" steel to pass tech, no idea of the weight trade-off yet.

FIA, CASC and SCCA say this about a firewall: "A metal bulkhead separating Driver's compartment from engine room preventing the passage of flame and debris." No mention of thickness.

FIA does give a spec for Formula Drift: .036" steel ir .59" aluminum

ECTA (land speed) requires 0.60" minimum regardless of metal, but would "prefer" .095".

I do plan on doing something with the rad support, IF everything goes smoothly. I have a new radiator to work in anyway. Not sure if it's smarter to rebuild the rad support when I do the chassis.

I'm currently hunting down a set of scales to weigh the truck without a front end. I've also weighed all the various stock parts. I'm only adjusting what needs to be done, if the stock stuff works from a weight standpoint, it's going back on for now.

[kingcrunch]

About the tires again:
I rolled a 305/35 R20 under my truck today and whaddaya say, it didn't disappear optically.

[bovey]

My father thinks it's hilarious that I'm cutting out the only part that wasn't rusty when we first built the truck.

A good chunk of the firewall is out. More that likely more will be cut, but this is all that needs to be removed for now. We are playing it safe as not to compromise the structure of the cab. So far, so good.



The mock-up engine and t56 are getting fitted at the moment. Had an unfortunate issue with the dry sump, engine mount and header all wanting to occupy the same place. The end result is the header is going to meet a cut-off wheel and tig welder. Photos to come.



All of the old parts are now off the truck, and we fitted the new RSRT spindles, they went on like factory units. That goodness, as I'm sticking with the factory a-arms until I build the next version of the chassis. These Howe 3-piece ball joints are fantastic works of art. Looks like a may have to do a little magic on the tie-rod ends, but I think it's easy. Think...



I will not miss this 12 bolt. Nothing but an expensive pain in my wallet, and that's after shelling out the $$$ for the 9" floater. Right now we are figuring out he driveline angles. The springs are coming out so I can have the spring rates checked. I made some mistakes in recording the ride height, so the is some precision guess work coming up to sort that out. There is a chance that we can do some ride height work, but that will come once we understand how the truck is going to sit.



I'm very curious to weight this pile. None of it is going back on, but the question is how much weight difference is there between this pile of heavy and the new pile of parts to replace them. I'm working on some math to show how I'm finding the 400 lbs to loose or move to the back. It's going to be a bit of both to try to achieve the goal, HOWEVER some of the new parts are heavier, like the brakes, so there is going to be some give and take.

[kingcrunch]

How far are you going to set the engine back?
I am debating with myself whether i should do the same. But: pristine firewall...

[bovey]

How far are you going to set the engine back?
I am debating with myself whether i should do the same. But: pristine firewall...

The aim is around 12 inches back. The dash was the limit, but I'm warming up to adjusting the dash for engine placement at this point. We are going to put the block and t56 in place and see what lands where. The tailstock and the tailing arm crossmember might be the stopping point, or the stopping point might be the amount of room left for the pedal box, time will tell. I also am going to need to figure out how to get air into the throttle body, but I have some ideas. AND shifter location is also something that needs consideration.

For a street truck, I wouldn't go this extreme. And if you don't go this extreme in a truck then it's kinda a wasted effort as you can achieve the same weight adjustments with other changes. At least that is what my calculator says.

[Ethereal]

Your engine is pretty gnarly, but have you considered going to an aluminum block to shave ~80lbs off the front? What about an aftermarket crossmember (could save ~20lbs, stocker is aout 70lbs) -- This one is ~200lbs less than stock altogether.

I was thinking, is it better to add weight to the rear to artificially achieve a 50/50 weight balance if that's necessary? Or would the detriment of the added weight make this a losing proposition.

if you don't go this extreme in a truck then it's kinda a wasted effort as you can achieve the same weight adjustments with other changes. At least that is what my calculator says.

What other changes? Is moving the engine back 12 inches really the easiest way?

I bet you could effectively move 15lbs to the rear by switching to airbags up front, with the compressor and tank in the rear. Maybe have the lower control arm shafts machined out of aluminum to save 10lbs there...

[Mtrhd329]

I did pretty much what you are looking into doing. I set my engine back behind the crossmember and then since the crossmember was not in the way i could drop it down also. Ended up being about 18" back and 6" down. I made a frame of what used to be my firewall out of 3/4" square tubing and plated it with .032 aluminum.

[bovey]

I did pretty much what you are looking into doing. I set my engine back behind the crossmember and then since the crossmember was not in the way i could drop it down also. Ended up being about 18" back and 6" down. I made a frame of what used to be my firewall out of 3/4" square tubing and plated it with .032 aluminum.

Wow. 18". You sir, are my hero. I've been following your build, it's very adventurous - love it. What pan do you have on your engine to achieve the 6" drop? I'll have a 2.125" dry sump pan, making the t56 the lowest point. I'm not sure where my headers hang in reference to my transmission. Next week is a big week for this project. Decisions are going to be made.

I fully plan on getting behind the front crossmember, but hot dam son - 18" back?!?!?! Impressive. Just keep in mind .032" aluminum is not exactly going to do much in regards to safety. I'm going with 0.040" steel to pass ECTA tech, I want to go land speed racing again.