Head is spinning over suspension options.... 71 Firebird

[srh3trinity]

If it makes your choice any easier, very few people's driving abilities will ever eclipse any of these suspension systems. That being said, there was a certain second gen that was on leafs and was giving up some power to her competition and still ruling the roost.

[BMR Sales]

Hey guys new to the board and have a few questions regarding my car. I have a 71 Firebird Formula 400 that is going full frame off resto and its getting close to suspension time. Since everything is rotted out and rusted I need to replace everything (including the old air shocks lol). I had my sights on the Speedtech grand touring kit and planned on upgrading to a 12bolt rear end, but I've also seen BMR's setup with the Watt's link setup. I'd honestly like to stick around 5 or 6k for front and rear so Detroit's hydroformed front end and quadralink is probably out of the question. However I know since I'm going to be replacing brakes and steering as well maybe those "complete" subframes might be worth it? Does anyone have experience with either setup or possibly might recommend something else I may have missed? Thanks!

Thanks for Considering our Torque Arm with the Watts-Link. You will be below your Budget for both the Front & Rear with our pieces. Give me a Call when you get a chance, I'm here 9:30am to 6:00 pm EST

T.C.

[wendell]

If you're just looking to buy a "pro-touring" then it's only fair that you get the ridetech because they posted first.

[ChrisYear]

Lol this is probably true

[Nothingface5384]

If I'm not mistaken don't the second gen Fbodys have the 8.5 inch 10 bolt which is almost the same size/strength as the 12bolt?

not sure if there were any 3in axle tubed c clip 8.5 10 bolts..so im going to say just your run of the mill 2 5/8 C-Clip rear.. but I can measure my uncles tmrw for axle tube size

now 71-72 Buick skylark/GS and 71-72 cutlass/442 would be the 12bolt like strength 10 bolt
due to 3in diameter axle tubes
same pinion support as 12 bolt
same pinion shaft diameter as 12bolt
BOLT IN Axles

can be rebuilt with 30 spline axles, 3/16in thick retaining plates and 1/2 in wheel studs

[Ben@SpeedTech]

Hey Chris-

Nice ride to start with. When I was in high school a good friend had a 71 with the ram air hood like yours. I was always a bit jealous, his car looked way more aggressive than my Nova, lol!

First off, you're in luck, the Speedtech GT package is on sale this month for $3999, click here. When comparing everything you get it's also about $800 cheaper than similar packages if you're concerned about price. It converts your front factory subframe to true coilovers and it drops the leaf springs and rusty shocks since you want to start out fresh. It does really well on the race track and is comfortable to drive down the road. Don't wanna turn this into a huge sales pitch so I'll leave it at that.There are lots of systems out there to choose from and we appreciate you considering our package.

The best way to get you quality advice is to dig a little deeper into your thoughts.

You mentioned you were headed towards the Speedtech GT system, what may have changed your mind?

What are your reserves with a panhard system and why do you feel the watts link will work better?

I see a lot of "bolt in" mentioned, do you have reserves with a little bit of welding?

What are your plans outside of suspension? Drivetrain? How often will it see track time or is it mostly street driving? Wheels and tires? Etc.

What are the main things you're looking for while shopping for a suspension? "Because everyone else has it" doesn't count. ;)

[srh3trinity]

Hey Chris-

Nice ride to start with. When I was in high school a good friend had a 71 with the ram air hood like yours. I was always a bit jealous, his car looked way more aggressive than my Nova, lol!

First off, you're in luck, the Speedtech GT package is on sale this month for $3999, click here. When comparing everything you get it's also about $800 cheaper than similar packages if you're concerned about price. It converts your front factory subframe to true coilovers and it drops the leaf springs and rusty shocks since you want to start out fresh. It does really well on the race track and is comfortable to drive down the road. Don't wanna turn this into a huge sales pitch so I'll leave it at that.There are lots of systems out there to choose from and we appreciate you considering our package.

The best way to get you quality advice is to dig a little deeper into your thoughts.

You mentioned you were headed towards the Speedtech GT system, what may have changed your mind?

What are your reserves with a panhard system and why do you feel the watts link will work better?

I see a lot of "bolt in" mentioned, do you have reserves with a little bit of welding?

What are your plans outside of suspension? Drivetrain? How often will it see track time or is it mostly street driving? Wheels and tires? Etc.

What are the main things you're looking for while shopping for a suspension? "Because everyone else has it" doesn't count. ;)

This is a great setup. I may be mistaken, but I think Speedtech's prices have come down since I bought my stuff. I dont remember a deal like that when I was shopping.

[dutch55]

Josh,
How does the rear suspension anti-squat percentage of the ridetech rear suspension kit you mentioned compare with the stock leaf spring setup?

[Josh@Ridetech]

Josh,
How does the rear suspension anti-squat percentage of the ridetech rear suspension kit you mentioned compare with the stock leaf spring setup?

The suspension will squat a bit under power (coilovers or shockwaves) but not near as much as a leaf spring would. The setup makes the rear end alot more stable while still having a good amount of suspension travel to give you the good ride. Depending on what your goal is, the spring rates can be adjusted to better fit the driving styles.



Edit: I was thinking rear squat, let me check with engineering on the anti squat comparisons! We'll post up the answer as soon as we come up with it.

[Later-A-body]

I thought I would reply only in regard to the 10 bolt question, and because I owned three '70-'73 Formula's and love them. The 10 bolt as stated is plenty strong. I have an 8.5" 10 bolt in my 4000 pound 5-speed Grand Am. I had it rebuilt with Superior forged axles, Eaton posi and 3.73 gears. With the previous Pontiac 455 making 530 HP and 580 lbs./foot of torque, it holds up well. Unless your planning on dry hooking your car on slicks all the time, I don't see any reason to spend extra cash on a 12 bolt.

[ChrisYear]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.. especially the rear end info.

Ben the only reason I think I was going away from your kit was the 12bolt only application. I found out the car has a posi and supposedly aftermarket gears from the body shop so to keep cost down right now I'd like to stick with the 10bolt.

Later A body, that helps a lot. According the the engine builder we should be around 540hp to the crank with the new heads and roller cam (if we can find a grind!). Behind the the Neal Chance auto tranny and radials I'm thinking I'll be ok for awhile.

[Later-A-body]

Glad to help. In regards to the cam selection, I would definitely call SD Performance in BC Canada. 604-490-2211. They are in my opinion the best Pontiac engine builders. They have a line of cams that have been proven many times over to work extremely well. I would look at the "Old Faithful" grind. It works fantastic in a big stroke 455. Don't make the same mistake I made once with a cam ground on a 110 LSA. Pontiacs love a 112 LSA and the powerband is less brutal on the bottom, and spreads the power out better. They are also some of the best head porters in the Pontiac circle.

[ChrisYear]

Looks like I'll will give "Old Faithful" a shot when we get that far in the build! Thank you. Regarding the rear end I did the math and it just makes more sense to buy a new disc brake 12bolt from Moser to complete the setup rather than clean up the old stock 10 bolt.

[Later-A-body]

Two good choices. Cant go wrong either way. SD Performance also ports Pontiac cyllinder heads, and you can buy them already done.