Ultimate Street Car Association

[PT Sportwagon]

. With the tracks being all over the country it will be financially challenging without your rich uncle to run the series but hitting one or two might be fun I can't wait to see what it cost to race at Daytona you don't rent that place for $2500.00 bucks for the weekend!

I beg to differ. What about the Rocky Mtn area? Nothing close at all, closest track for me is 800+ miles one way. So it is not "tracks all over the country". I don't have the disposable income to throw the car on the trailer and head for Daytona, or CA. I don't trailer my rides, They are driven. If you do it is fine with me. Last year I had to forgo quite a few car events just to afford to attend my sisters wedding. Even then I came home with my new car needing almost $3500 in damage repairs.

When are we going to see general rules? I know that each track may add rules of there own.



Tim

[BMR Sales]

I think you will see some Rules coming out right at the start of 2014 - the 1st event is in March

T.C.

[Rod]

these will be fun events, cant wait to run them!! I do have to add a few more safety items, not that there necessary but I will just feel safer, I ran the small streets of willow earlier this year and even on that small track (we went clockwise) on the up hill dog leg just before the hair pin I was squeezing out 95mph on that turn, made me a little nervous

[Nothingface5384]

if I get my car done i'll be participating in the Wampum PA event..but def going to be there eitherway

[xxxturbo6]

A new racing series was announced today at SEMA. Seems pretty cool...but I just can't help the fact that it just seems like the lil guys are being left behind in the dust here.

Maybe I'm just crazy but I was counting every penny I had this year just to attend 3 ASCS events as a spectator/helper. In 2012 I raced at a lot of events and it pretty much made me broke between gas for the truck pulling the trailer, hotels, registration, and constantly fixing the car! Now I really feel like I am missing out! lol

What do you all think?

http://ultimatestreetcarassociation.com/

Doug,

I agree! I have been going to these events now for the last 9 yrs and it didn't start out this way, it truly started out as fun. In this hobby it seems as if everyone that is at or right at the top talks about attending these events to have fun, which is a good thing to say to keep the attendance coming in but in all seriousness the beginners also want to be competitive just like the ones at the top! What I do not understand is why, with the vast variety of cars and participants from Pro to beginner they don't have a separate class the pro's to compete in all by themselves and then a class for the rest of the beginners so they can "Have Fun and be Competitive" too just the pro's? Seems to me the majority of the participants that make these events successful would be more happy having Fun being competitive in their class than going home all the time getting the daylights beat out of them by the top drivers that attend pretty much every event!

Maybe once a certain time is reached by say a "beginner" it would now move him up to the other class?

[bret]

In any discipline, if a beginner could be as competitive as an expert, why bother practicing to be an expert?

[71RS/SS396]

Doug,

I agree! I have been going to these events now for the last 9 yrs and it didn't start out this way, it truly started out as fun. In this hobby it seems as if everyone that is at or right at the top talks about attending these events to have fun, which is a good thing to say to keep the attendance coming in but in all seriousness the beginners also want to be competitive just like the ones at the top! What I do not understand is why, with the vast variety of cars and participants from Pro to beginner they don't have a separate class the pro's to compete in all by themselves and then a class for the rest of the beginners so they can "Have Fun and be Competitive" too just the pro's? Seems to me the majority of the participants that make these events successful would be more happy having Fun being competitive in their class than going home all the time getting the daylights beat out of them by the top drivers that attend pretty much every event!

Maybe once a certain time is reached by say a "beginner" it would now move him up to the other class?

I don't want to clutter up this thread but I would suggest you read this thread https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...u-Pay-For-This

Driving schools, seat time, and dialing in your car are what are going to make you faster. When I was starting out I didn't worry about others times I raced against myself (and still do) and concentrated on constantly improving my times.

[xxxturbo6]

I don't want to clutter up this thread but I would suggest you read this thread https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...u-Pay-For-This

Driving schools, seat time, and dialing in your car are what are going to make you faster. When I was starting out I didn't worry about others times I raced against myself (and still do) and concentrated on constantly improving my times.

Yep I already read that thread. I think some might have misinterpreted my post a little bit but it's all good. At the past several events the talk amongst other participant racers is that they mostly mention competing against the top people at all the events, that's all......

It would be nice to see a "Pro Class"?? Hell most of you guys end up competing against each other at these events anyway.... LOL

As I mentioned in Bill Howells thread recently the last 9 yrs I have done this for fun, I am not fast and really don't care to be faster, better or even participate in road courses, I enjoy these events and having fun with my friends..... Just was giving feedback on what I hear.

I did however manage my first entry into the Shootout at this years RTTH event! I happen to be very consistent with my times only once getting out of the 52 second range....

Back on topic!

[Ron Sutton]

Doug,

I agree! I have been going to these events now for the last 9 yrs and it didn't start out this way, it truly started out as fun. In this hobby it seems as if everyone that is at or right at the top talks about attending these events to have fun, which is a good thing to say to keep the attendance coming in but in all seriousness the beginners also want to be competitive just like the ones at the top! What I do not understand is why, with the vast variety of cars and participants from Pro to beginner they don't have a separate class the pro's to compete in all by themselves and then a class for the rest of the beginners so they can "Have Fun and be Competitive" too just the pro's? Seems to me the majority of the participants that make these events successful would be more happy having Fun being competitive in their class than going home all the time getting the daylights beat out of them by the top drivers that attend pretty much every event!

Maybe once a certain time is reached by say a "beginner" it would now move him up to the other class?

I couldn't agree more. There is a strong movement to build faster, higher tech cars with race level design & performance (myself included) ... and a strong movement by a different group to keep these cars more pro touring.

To make these events financially successful requires strong & varied participation. You don't want to end up with 20 classes with 5 cars in each class. But you don't want to have 100 cars in 1 class, or after awhile it will be 80, then 60, etc. as people become disillusioned and frustrated with the performance gap.

I believe there needs to be approximately 5 categories, different, but not too different, from what Good Guys does with their AutoX series. My thoughts on classes/categories would be ...

1. Pro Class
* Full safety equipment required, including roll cage & fire suppression system
* Unlimited performance rules, except TW200 tires
* Must be licensed & insured as a street car

2. Street Car Class
* Specific safety equipment required, including roll bar & 5-point harness
* 3000# minimum weight without driver (or 3150# with driver)
* 1950-1990 American car body styles
* No reproduction fiberglass or carbon fiber body shells
* Full street car trim including glass windshield, wipers, turn signals,
* Must be licensed & insured as a street car

3. Street Truck Class
* Specific safety equipment required, including roll bar & 5-point harness
* 3100# minimum weight without driver (or 3250# with driver)
* 1955 & newer American truck body styles
* No reproduction fiberglass or carbon fiber body shells
* Full street car trim including glass windshield, wipers, turn signals,
* Must be licensed & insured as a street car

4. Supercar Class
* Specific safety equipment required, including roll bar & 5-point harness
* 3000# minimum weight without driver (or 3150# with driver)
* Open to all years, makes & models foreign & domestic
* Must be a recognized factory production car
* Full street car trim including glass windshield, wipers, turn signals,
* Must be licensed & insured as a street car

5. Pro Touring Class
* Specific safety equipment required, including roll bar & 5-point harness
* 3200# minimum weight without driver (or 3350# with driver)
* 1950-1990 American body car or truck styles
* No reproduction fiberglass or carbon fiber body shells
* 275 maximum tire size
* Air conditioning must be functional ?
* Full street car trim including glass windshield, wipers, turn signals,
* Must be licensed & insured as a street car

Ok ... please don't flame me ... but I would like constructive opinions & viewpoints. Not that I or most of us on here have any control over how they run their events, but I suspect they're watching this thread and value input from people who actually plan to participate.

[71RS/SS396]

Ron, other than the carbon hood/decklid my car would fit in 2 classes.

[HellPhish89]

Seems like something that would/should be similar to blacktop/'Tarmac' rallies or even something with a pump gas drags type component to them.
hell a drag week 'no support vehicles allowed' sort of thing.

IE: A sanctioned point to point at the tail of the dragon or a requirement that 'race cars' drive a certain distance on the street before racing.

A street car series should be something based on the public streets. Just my opinion

Using the the roads would allow many more choices for venues.. if it was possible to convince towns/states to sanction such a thing.

[Ron Sutton]

Ron, other than the carbon hood/decklid my car would fit in 2 classes.

Tim, I'm not suggesting that fiberglass or carbon fiber fenders, hood or doors wouldn't be allowed. Just no reproduction shells or complete bodies.

[Ron Sutton]

Seems like something that would/should be similar to blacktop/'Tarmac' rallies or even something with a pump gas drags type component to them.
hell a drag week 'no support vehicles allowed' sort of thing.

IE: A sanctioned point to point at the tail of the dragon or a requirement that 'race cars' drive a certain distance on the street before racing.

A street car series should be something based on the public streets. Just my opinion

Using the the roads would allow many more choices for venues.. if it was possible to convince towns/states to sanction such a thing.

Unfortunately, none of these things address the large differences in the performance of the cars. I can drive my 2800#, tube chassis, 900hp, fiberglass body 57 Chevy with high tech suspension on the street as far as anyone. But its not fair to compete in the same class IMHO.

[SSLance]

I like your class setup suggestion Ron. I might put a bit further distance between the street car and pro touring class... Basically as you have it is a 200 pound minimum weight difference and a tire size limit...Right?

Eh, that's probably good enough. I'm in...

I agree, you don't want to end up with 287 classes like the SCCA has, but they do need to be split up somewhat to keep everyone interested and participating.

[eric1967]

It is starting to sound like drag racing with the 275 street tire. I like it. It would be nice to have some rules in place to build a car towards. Many of the cars are getting pretty exotic. Weight limits may help.

[Ron Sutton]

Hey Lance,

I like your class setup suggestion Ron. I might put a bit further distance between the street car and pro touring class... Basically as you have it is a 200 pound minimum weight difference and a tire size limit...Right?

Eh, that's probably good enough. I'm in...

I agree, you don't want to end up with 287 classes like the SCCA has, but they do need to be split up somewhat to keep everyone interested and participating.

Three things ... one is my thought ...and the other two are looking for yours ...

1. I "think" getting 275 tires to fit on most PT cars is fairly doable without buying new frames, clips or suspensions. It's common now to see winning cars on 315's or 335's. In my experience 20% more tire on the ground is a big deal. Unfortunately, it is a big cost & a lot of work to achieve that for many cars. So the 275 max rule would be a cost control scenario ... and frankly allow a lot of PT folks to participate that don't want to modify their cars to fit 315/335's.

2. What is your thoughts on requiring functional air conditioning in the Pro Touring class?

3. What other thoughts do you or anyone have to keep the costs in check and create classes that make sense to compete in?

[SSLance]

Ron,

(1) 275s all the way around are in my plans...it's the very most tire I can fit on my car without major modifications. I like this.

(2) Functional AC required for Pro Touring class... AC can be fickle, especially in older cars... How about AC system fully installed? (not necessarily functional)

(3) How about some sort of "novice" ranking for the lower classes, where beginners can compete against other beginners? It could be inside the Pro-Touring class, like a sub class. That might be a place for a beginning driver or lower prepped car to play in to see how they like it.

[howehot]

My Monte Carlo s a family car and this causes a problem with a cage. Every class listed above requires a cage and 5 point harness. This eliminate my car from being a street car #1 and "event" car, not race car #2. I don't have to attend the national events and pay the $300 plus entry fee, travel, and lodging. I can attended local Iowa SCCA events for $35 and still have a ball without modifying my car beyond what it is, a street car. But I do spend $$$$ to travel and run the car for the manufactures that have helped with the build and meet the friends I made along the way and plan to continue do so. Safety is a huge concern. I have no desire to hurt myself or others and sustain damage to the car we built. I have been concerned about the road course portion since my first time on one at OUSCI. Pretty big event for a first timer and I was nervous as hell. My attitude then is the same as now. Safety first don't drive over my head, and have fun. I never enter an event with the expectation of winning anything or beating him or her so classes are of no importance to me.

I think everyone needs to step back and wait out the rules package and then start this discussion. The organizers have stated this is a series for street cars. They stated the need for safety. They want you to have fun. If this isn't achieved the likely hood of success is minimal. Who will attend a second event if the dislike the first and how many people will they tell of their poor experience.

Just my thoughts.

[HellPhish89]

Unfortunately, none of these things address the large differences in the performance of the cars. I can drive my 2800#, tube chassis, 900hp, fiberglass body 57 Chevy with high tech suspension on the street as far as anyone. But its not fair to compete in the same class IMHO.

Point taken.


The other ideas would be:

-base weights on the lightest factory curb weight (production more than 1000 units) so people arent gutting their cars

-limiting cars to stock (for the model not model year) or stock style suspension (stock type for that brand)

-cost caps that exempt safety equipment and include values of parts not just price paid

-like you already laid out: stock, non-tube frame, chassis

-again, already laid out: tire size. an alternate idea for a slightly faster class would be to limit it in a way that requires stock wheel wells with tires having to be under or flush to the stock fender or 1/4.

Just thinking out loud.

[Ron Sutton]

Thanks guys. Hopefully more people chime in with their ideas too.