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    View Poll Results: In your PT or Track Car, do you plan to run ...

    Voters
    128. You may not vote on this poll
    • No roll bar or cage

      21 16.41%
    • Roll bar without door bars

      33 25.78%
    • Roll Bar with door bars

      36 28.13%
    • Roll cage

      38 29.69%
    Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
    Results 1 to 20 of 92
    1. #1
      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,918
      Country Flag: United States

      Pro-Touring & Track Car Safety Discussion

      The new "Safety for Pro-Touring Track Cars" thread is UP.

      Click HERE.


      -------------------------------------------------------------------

      Hi Everyone,

      I'm going to start a forum focused on safety equipment & safety planning for our Pro-Touring & Track cars ... if there is enough interest.

      This is not that forum thread. On here I'm just gauging interest.

      If there is enough people who would like to learn, improve their cars' safety and/or share safety knowledge, we can discuss:
      • Proper roll bar/cage design & installations, along with concerns, pros & cons.
      • Pros & cons of harness designs along with proper installation methods.
      • Safety of different seat designs & mounting
      • Fire suppression systems
      • Specific driver protection devices
      • Education on HANS type devices
      • Various helmet models, features & specs
      • Real safety info on fire suits, underwear, shoes, gloves, etc.
      • What mechanical things in the car should we be concerned about breaking.
      • Designing in safety when building the car
      • Keys to surviving an impact or roll over


      So the question is ... do you want to learn, discuss and/or contribute on the topic of safety for Pro-Touring and/or Track Cars?

      If yes ... what do you want to see discussed?



      Also, please participate in the roll bar/cage poll. Thanks !

      .
      Last edited by Ron Sutton; 12-06-2013 at 10:29 AM.


    2. #2
      Join Date
      May 2011
      Location
      Chippewa Falls, WI
      Posts
      290
      Country Flag: United States
      Yes, very interested in this aspect of the sport. Gotta be smart and safe.
      Justin N.

      1966 Chevelle
      1992 GMC Typhoon
      1989 Jeep Wrangler CJ 6.0 Twin Turbo
      1981 Jeep CJ7

    3. #3
      Join Date
      Sep 2008
      Location
      Jacksonville, Florida
      Posts
      629
      Country Flag: United States
      Absolutely. I'd like to see fire suppression and prevention discussed, specifically what is recommended for a bulk head between the passenger compartment and trunk, types of sealers, auto temp extinguishers or manuals, etc...

      Also any fireproof sound deadening or insulation for the interior. I have purposely not insulated my car with the spray on sound deadening because of this. I've seen this stuff burn at really low temps and don't want to sit in a inferno.
      Craig Scholl
      CJD Automotive, LLC
      Jacksonville, Florida
      904-400-1802
      www.cjdautomotive.com

      "I own a Mopar, I already know it won't be in stock, won't ship tomorrow, and won't fit without modification."

    4. #4
      Join Date
      Nov 2008
      Location
      Lawrenceburg, TN
      Posts
      4,083
      Country Flag: United States
      I haven't added bars to my car, because she mainly spends her time Daily driving and on autocross courses, SCCA(under 70mph), goodguys(under 35 mph) the speeds are low enough I haven't felt a need for the bar, but like all things worth doing you always push the edge and I have run a few large tracks, and after running willow springs(some corners were easily way over 100 on entry) I have now seriously started designing a Rollbar/Cage system. ...... so Ron I'm all ears

    5. #5
      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,918
      Country Flag: United States
      Good input so far guys.

      I'm going to let this thread run awhile and see the topics of interest, then start a new thread for our discussion.

      i want to hear more ideas, wants, concerns ... so guys chime in.

    6. #6
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      I've thought about this subject long and hard, it's a large point of contention with my relationship with my car.

      I LOVE driving my car on track days and PDXs...but it also has a real nice interior, with a pristine dash...and some very comfy 8 way power seats that I really like. All of those items work directly against any plans of putting a roll cage in the car or even a nice set of safety belts.

      I'd mainly like to talk about ways of putting a better safety harness in my mostly factory style interior without adding a roll bar. And if that just isn't an option...then I'd have to see what options are available for a roll bar with no door bars, mainly for an attachment point for a harness.

      If there are ways of adding the rest of the safety devices listed above while retaining a mostly stock complete interior, I'd be interested in those discussions. I'm just not that interested in stripping my interior out to add the safety devices to my car. To the point of deciding if that maybe it's just not worth track daying my car...which sucks.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    7. #7
      Join Date
      Jul 2012
      Location
      Iowa
      Posts
      399
      Country Flag: United States
      I would be interested in a page about cage options, I would like to run a full cage with removable door bars for daily driving, and also a removable cross bar where the harness belts attach to put in a cross bar with a bend in it to let the seats recline for daily driving also.Not having good info about making the car safer in a crash or roll over is why I hesitate to make those two removable bars. It would be interesting to read pros and cons and make choices from there.
      Miles Boyer
      The car hobby is dangerous,if the speed doesn't kill you, the cost of parts will.
      91 V8 S10
      88 Cutlass Pro-Tour
      97 Chevy lifted Z-71
      96 Corvette

    8. #8
      Join Date
      Nov 2011
      Location
      Virginia
      Posts
      229
      Country Flag: United States

      Pro-Touring & Track Car Safety Discussion

      I'd like to see a page about proper design of braking systems. It's a cross between safety and performance, but the intention would be to discuss the engineering behind proper design of a modern braking system, to have these old cars stop as well as they go.

      I'm not just talking about examples of 'I did it this way' or 'I did it that way' or 'this product from XXX manufacturer is really great'...but rather a lesson on the true engineering approach to design of high performance braking systems.

      I've seen (and participated in) this as an area of so much confusion, with so many mismatched parts, that I see it as a definite safety issue.

      Thanks!

    9. #9
      Join Date
      Nov 2011
      Location
      Virginia
      Posts
      229
      Country Flag: United States

      Pro-Touring & Track Car Safety Discussion

      Something else that would be great is a page about proper fuel system design, to include when to use a bladder, foam, aluminum tanks, steel tanks, plastic tanks, how to vent them, line sizing, types of lines to use, etc... So as to avoid driving around in a Molotov Cocktail.

      Thanks!

    10. #10
      Join Date
      Oct 2012
      Location
      British Columbia
      Posts
      614
      Country Flag: Canada
      Yes Ron I'm in for lots of stuff you've mentioned. I'm at the install rear suspension and stuff but the kits are well planned and laid out for the most part. Where I'd really like some of your technical expertise is in cage/bar planning and install. The kits come with a hoop and a bunch of fish mouth cut pipe but your guidance in this area would be much appreciated.

      Offer still stands if you're ever in the Vancouver area to come on by
      Todd
      '14 ZL1, 6 speed and 6.2L of Super Charged Awesome!
      '67 Camaro SS in process. A long, slow, expensive trip...


      How hard can it be...

      Project Obsession
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ject-Obsession

    11. #11
      Join Date
      Jul 2013
      Location
      NC
      Posts
      29
      Country Flag: United States
      I would be very interested in alot of the topics you have listed. I would like at least a 5 point bar in my Vette and depending on how my build goes on my 77 C10, I will probably need help with it too.

    12. #12
      Join Date
      Mar 2010
      Location
      Okinawa, Japan
      Posts
      305
      Country Flag: United States
      Watch one single 1/4 mile or road race rollover video and then tell me you don't think a roll bar is nessasary. It takes about 30 extra seconds to go and 10 extra to leave my car vs a non caged car with a normal seatbelt. Easy math in my book...
      81 Regal, impersonating a Grand National with a 488 Olds
      Build thread: https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ith-a-488-Olds

    13. #13
      Join Date
      May 2013
      Location
      Colton Ca.
      Posts
      623
      Country Flag: United States
      Seats
      Proper Roll cage layout for possible street use
      Entry level fire suppression

    14. #14
      Join Date
      Aug 2012
      Location
      Peoria, AZ
      Posts
      1,758
      Country Flag: United States
      How about some sort of comparison discussion between stock, factory designed safety restraint systems vs aftermarket\race harness applications?

      Same with factory fuel systems vs aftermarket fuel cells.

      This might end up being more vehicle specific as I believe the 3 point restraints in our later model cars are better designed than the lap belt systems of the late 60s early 70s designs. The same with fuel systems... But I'm sure there are times where the stock factory designed safety device works better than an aftermarket replacement device...and vice versa...a discussion of these differences might help a lot of us.

      A whole 'nother thread on personal safety devices, firesuits, gloves, helmets, neck collars, HANS devices etc would carry over to just about any car and be very beneficial to us all.
      Lance
      1985 Monte Carlo SS Street Car

    15. #15
      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,918
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Red67Mustang View Post
      I'd like to see a page about proper design of braking systems. It's a cross between safety and performance, but the intention would be to discuss the engineering behind proper design of a modern braking system, to have these old cars stop as well as they go.

      I'm not just talking about examples of 'I did it this way' or 'I did it that way' or 'this product from XXX manufacturer is really great'...but rather a lesson on the true engineering approach to design of high performance braking systems.

      I've seen (and participated in) this as an area of so much confusion, with so many mismatched parts, that I see it as a definite safety issue.

      Thanks!
      Great point.

      I'm looking to start a focused thread titled "Brake System Design for Track Performance" ... so we'll cover that there.


    16. #16
      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,918
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Red67Mustang View Post
      Something else that would be great is a page about proper fuel system design, to include when to use a bladder, foam, aluminum tanks, steel tanks, plastic tanks, how to vent them, line sizing, types of lines to use, etc... So as to avoid driving around in a Molotov Cocktail.

      Thanks!

      Great topic to add. Thanks for the input.


    17. #17
      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,918
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by sccacuda View Post
      Absolutely. I'd like to see fire suppression and prevention discussed, specifically what is recommended for a bulk head between the passenger compartment and trunk, types of sealers, auto temp extinguishers or manuals, etc...
      Good topic and areas to cover.


      Also any fireproof sound deadening or insulation for the interior. I have purposely not insulated my car with the spray on sound deadening because of this. I've seen this stuff burn at really low temps and don't want to sit in a inferno.
      Craig, I agree.

      We're going to either need to find an expert here or do some serious research.

      I have the same concerns for my car.


    18. #18
      Join Date
      Nov 2012
      Location
      Sacramento, CA
      Posts
      1,918
      Country Flag: United States
      Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
      I haven't added bars to my car, because she mainly spends her time Daily driving and on autocross courses, SCCA(under 70mph), goodguys(under 35 mph) the speeds are low enough I haven't felt a need for the bar, but like all things worth doing you always push the edge and I have run a few large tracks, and after running willow springs(some corners were easily way over 100 on entry) I have now seriously started designing a Rollbar/Cage system. ...... so Ron I'm all ears
      I see this as a dilemma for many PT guys. There are safety concerns with AutoX too, but impact & roll overs aren't on that list. It's when you go run a full road course and speeds get "up there" that we run the risk of getting seriously hurt or killed.

      For me, it's easy to cover the key elements designing & building a safe roll bar or roll cage system. I think the harder part is more philosophical in nature for each PT Guy to decide safety versus style & comfort. We'll need to address this too.


    19. #19
      Join Date
      Aug 2009
      Location
      Charlotte, NC
      Posts
      171
      Country Flag: United States
      I'm interested

    20. #20
      Join Date
      Oct 2012
      Location
      British Columbia
      Posts
      614
      Country Flag: Canada
      This is really key for most of the guys on here in my opinion. While I have every intent to track this car the reality is it will be used more for local cruises and running around than anything. I had a track car and there is no way I'm going to install bars on this car that I have to climb around every time that anyone gets in or out of the car. The Tiger Cage addresses most of the issues but the landed cost to get to Canada is way up there. Here's my wish list;

      Strong safe cage
      Easy access for regular use
      Something that helps stiffen the car
      Not overly heavy - spent way to much time and money putting this car on a diet to add it all back
      Look good and not be overly "in your face" looking

      There is a lot of information out there on a lot of these subjects mentioned and in today's kit availability world I'm finding it not to difficult to build a car. Your opinion Ron and the depth of your knowledge is very much appreciated but I'm finding the amount of info out there on cage builds are really lacking.

      Thanks as always for taking a lead on this and I'm subscribing to follow along.


      Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
      I see this as a dilemma for many PT guys. There are safety concerns with AutoX too, but impact & roll overs aren't on that list. It's when you go run a full road course and speeds get "up there" that we run the risk of getting seriously hurt or killed.

      For me, it's easy to cover the key elements designing & building a safe roll bar or roll cage system. I think the harder part is more philosophical in nature for each PT Guy to decide safety versus style & comfort. We'll need to address this too.

      Todd
      '14 ZL1, 6 speed and 6.2L of Super Charged Awesome!
      '67 Camaro SS in process. A long, slow, expensive trip...


      How hard can it be...

      Project Obsession
      https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...ject-Obsession

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