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    View Poll Results: In your PT or Track Car, do you plan to run ...

    Voters
    128. You may not vote on this poll
    • No roll bar or cage

      21 16.41%
    • Roll bar without door bars

      33 25.78%
    • Roll Bar with door bars

      36 28.13%
    • Roll cage

      38 29.69%
    Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
    Results 21 to 40 of 92
    1. #21
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      Nov 2008
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      Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
      I see this as a dilemma for many PT guys. There are safety concerns with AutoX too, but impact & roll overs aren't on that list. It's when you go run a full road course and speeds get "up there" that we run the risk of getting seriously hurt or killed.

      For me, it's easy to cover the key elements designing & building a safe roll bar or roll cage system. I think the harder part is more philosophical in nature for each PT Guy to decide safety versus style & comfort. We'll need to address this too.



      in on whatever! Ron


    2. #22
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      Oct 2012
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      I'd like to see roll bar design theory, the why and how of roll bar design.

    3. #23
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      Nov 2012
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      Quote Originally Posted by SSLance View Post
      How about some sort of comparison discussion between stock, factory designed safety restraint systems vs aftermarket\race harness applications?

      Same with factory fuel systems vs aftermarket fuel cells.

      This might end up being more vehicle specific as I believe the 3 point restraints in our later model cars are better designed than the lap belt systems of the late 60s early 70s designs. The same with fuel systems... But I'm sure there are times where the stock factory designed safety device works better than an aftermarket replacement device...and vice versa...a discussion of these differences might help a lot of us.

      A whole 'nother thread on personal safety devices, firesuits, gloves, helmets, neck collars, HANS devices etc would carry over to just about any car and be very beneficial to us all.
      Good Points Lance. We'll add these to the topics list.

    4. #24
      Join Date
      Oct 2004
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      Macon, Ga.
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      Great subject, great comments and great idea. I just hope people take into consideration what is said and more importantly, WHO is saying what. A Keyboard Warrior who doesn't have a finished car, or someone who has never been on a track IMHO shouldn't carry as much weight in these discussions. I have found in the past, when these threads come up that it us usually the guys that will never finish their cars that have the most to say.
      Either way, I look forward to the discussions.
      Bill

      Trailers are for BOATS!

    5. #25
      Join Date
      Aug 2010
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      now In Dandridge, Tn.
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      To be honest, above seats, belts and fire ext. I never thought about it much. When I raced IMCA mods, we followed the safety guidelines of the rulebook. That was 10+yrs ago. When I was autocrossing my '46 'vert at GoodGuys events, it wasn't much of a thought. When I first built my Silver Bullit F-100, good seats and belts seemed to be enough. Then we started going faster. At the first Truckin Throwdown the road coarse was really a giant autocross, top speed was appx 110, a little fast, but OK. Then I went to Run to the Coast. The road coarse there put me at 125ish on the top end. - That's movin in a '55 slant cab. Then I got the OUSCI invite. Even though I studied the track online, it didn't sink in. On my second hot lap on the road coarse, I came on to the back straight pretty strong. The truck hit the wind wall at about 140, just didn't have the HP to push the Effie through the wind any faster. - But I did have a moment to think. WTF am I doing!! I have a wife and daughter depending on me. At any moment this thing could be on it roof, and I've chopped many of these, it won't save me.- I know it. I would like to say I still charged the track, but honestly I'm not so sure. I knew one thing for sure, whatever the next build was, it would have a cage for the driver and an onboard fire system. HellBoy wasn't even a thought at that time, But I wanted to do more big track events, and I wanted to feel safe. - Call it a racecar if you want, but that cage is as much for my wife and kid as it is for me.

    6. #26
      Join Date
      Nov 2011
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      Livermore, CA
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      Late to the party.

      I'm in, but I actually want a rollbar/cage, but want it safe for my kids riding in the back seat. So that means designs, available tech to allow for quick disconnects, padding, proper belts etc. I'm okay being the target of "your crazy", but I would like to have all the facts so I can make an informed decision myself. And honestly the cage/bar is not all about safety, I like the ideas of adding stiffness to an otherwise floppy car.

      Thanks
      Tory

      Livermore, CA
      American:
      1966 Chevelle SS "Tribute" Retro / Pro-Tour
      For Sale

    7. #27
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
      Location
      oshawa ontario
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      1,607
      Country Flag: Canada
      When it comes to roll cages its interesting an outfit that puts on track days at my local track Mosport Park http://apexdriving.ca/about-us/mosport-track-map/ has a rule. If you have a roll cage in your car you MUST wear a helmet, its mandatory. If you dont have a roll cage you dont have to wear a helmet (but it is "recommended") BS you say?....The way they look at it is if you roll the car with a roll cage and your flailing around inside the car they dont want your head bouncing off something as hard as a roll cage tube even with padding on it. With no cage the interior of a car is typically quite soft especially nowadays with multiple airbags. Something to think about if you drive on the street with a cage. Most of the cars at their events are late model Porches, Vettes etc. I go there with my Iroc and its the oldest car there.

      My suggestion on Pro Touring safety would be to download and dissect the rulebook from a vintage iron race series as a "best" example and guys can make their individual decisions from there. D
      Nascar 69 Chevelle project, 1999 Hutch Pagan Nascar chassis, 69 Chevelle body,700hp, Penske's, slicks, roadrace track day https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...le-Cup-project
      89 Iroc 406 Fitech 5 spd
      01 chevy 2500HD 4x4 8.1 Allison
      31 Scarab 2 x 454

    8. #28
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      Nov 2012
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      Quote Originally Posted by cactuss4 View Post
      Late to the party.

      I'm in, but I actually want a rollbar/cage, but want it safe for my kids riding in the back seat. So that means designs, available tech to allow for quick disconnects, padding, proper belts etc. I'm okay being the target of "your crazy", but I would like to have all the facts so I can make an informed decision myself. And honestly the cage/bar is not all about safety, I like the ideas of adding stiffness to an otherwise floppy car.

      Thanks
      Tory

      Hey Tory ... I think we're all a little crazy.

      But I'm glad we're sane enough to be responsible for ourselves & loved ones.

      You bring up a good point, but a challenging one. People riding with us, and in the back seat no less ... is a little bit damned if you do & damned if you don't situation. With no roll bar or cage ... we're more vulnerable in side impacts & very vulnerable in roll overs. On the other hand, adding hard objects into the cockpit for passengers & us to hit in the case of a street collision can make all of the occupants vulnerable.

      When we start the safety thread, I'll address the stuff I can, with what I know & what I think ... which are different. And we'll start a discussion from there that is hopefully healthy & production, that leaves us with some clear ways to add protection & minimize dangers.


    9. #29
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      Jul 2005
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      I'm going to second the request for a discussion on fire systems.

      Supplemental seat support is another topic that bears discussion as well.

      The subject of kids in the back with rollover protection comes up 1-2 times a year. Is like to see that notion put to bed once and for all.
      True T.

      Whats new with Project 1/2-Trak?


      Follow my wisecracks on Sports, Food, Politics and other BS on Twitter.

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    10. #30
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
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      oshawa ontario
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      Theres already this great thread on seats, roll bars and fire systems.....


      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...s-Fire-systems
      Nascar 69 Chevelle project, 1999 Hutch Pagan Nascar chassis, 69 Chevelle body,700hp, Penske's, slicks, roadrace track day https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...le-Cup-project
      89 Iroc 406 Fitech 5 spd
      01 chevy 2500HD 4x4 8.1 Allison
      31 Scarab 2 x 454

    11. #31
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      Apr 2007
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      Greeley, CO
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      I have to admit I only skimmed through that thread shortrack. I would like to see some info on seat designs and mounting. I'm talking about street friendly designs. While I wish I was a track warrior, I'm certainly not one. It's not that I don't want to. I've just never gotten around to it. My car is in pieces right now, but I've been considering a cage. The reason I haven't pulled the trigger yet is that I don't know if I want to lose the rear seat. I would never put someone in the back of our Camaro if it had a cage or roll bar. Sometimes we have a friend that likes to go to the cruises with us. Sometimes the dogs go with us. A cage would make it a two car show to go anywhere and bring someone along. At that point we could all ride in our crew cab pick up and trailer the car. That is NOT how we want to use the car. I have been thinking of putting the Morris seatbelts in the front and back and forgetting about the cage idea. At least until I was ready for the next level of performance.
      Matt H.

    12. #32
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      May 2013
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      Quote Originally Posted by shortrack View Post
      Theres already this great thread on seats, roll bars and fire systems.....


      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...s-Fire-systems
      Although that cage and seat may be great for strictly track use I don't think it's practical in most cars that will be street driven and tracked. The cage looks like a task to get in and out with minimal interior space and the seat looks like it would block a lot of your view while driving. Not bashing his car or anything,I just think most people on here are trying to find that split between a track and street car but it's really hard to do.

    13. #33
      Join Date
      Dec 2006
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      Quote Originally Posted by shortrack View Post
      My suggestion on Pro Touring safety would be to download and dissect the rulebook from a vintage iron race series as a "best" example and guys can make their individual decisions from there. D
      I think we could say the red Firebird thread would be the "best" example and we can go from there.
      Nascar 69 Chevelle project, 1999 Hutch Pagan Nascar chassis, 69 Chevelle body,700hp, Penske's, slicks, roadrace track day https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...le-Cup-project
      89 Iroc 406 Fitech 5 spd
      01 chevy 2500HD 4x4 8.1 Allison
      31 Scarab 2 x 454

    14. #34
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      oshawa ontario
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      Heres another great "best example" thread

      http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums...ad.php?t=27556
      Nascar 69 Chevelle project, 1999 Hutch Pagan Nascar chassis, 69 Chevelle body,700hp, Penske's, slicks, roadrace track day https://www.pro-touring.com/showthre...le-Cup-project
      89 Iroc 406 Fitech 5 spd
      01 chevy 2500HD 4x4 8.1 Allison
      31 Scarab 2 x 454

    15. #35
      Join Date
      Apr 2006
      Location
      Coronado, CA
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      On the subject of rear passengers I think if you were to put Kirkey 24 Series child racing seats and Schroth Jr. Series LatchLink belts it would be the only way to go with having your little ones ride with you in any vehicle in which you have roll-over protection installed. For adult passengers the adult versions of this equipment or comparable equipment is requisite for their safety.

      http://www.kirkeyracing.com/index.ph...=Series24#nogo
      http://www.schrothracing.com/competi...ink-16.1/LL-II


      I don't think we need to "put the issue to bed". There is equipment available so why not enter it into the discussion? One thing a person would have to consider is whether the kids would want to be subjected to what is the equivalent of being ratchet strapped in a chair by sitting in a Jr. sized racing seat and being restrained by a 5 point harness w/ submarine belt. I think most would be happy to stay at home or with a sitter while you went to a race or car show. It would NOT be fun for the avg. kid to ride in the back of a loud, exhaust gas-filled, jungle gym while being strapped in and rendered immobile. Keep in mind, also, that the level of safety built into the car's rear seats and harnesses would have to be, at least equal, to the front, if not, surpass it.

      If we are going to have people putting kids in the back of cars with bars and cages anyway, we might as well talk about these great products that are kid sized. I would rather have a person who made the decision to put kids in the back, at least, hear and read about the options available to do so safely. Let's not shelve the idea and discussion on the grounds that it is most often done unsafely.

      I would say that there is an acceptable level of risk in having kid passengers with the products, or similar products, that I have linked to installed. I would be interested in Ron's opinion on this given his extensive knowledge of driver and passenger safety.
      Johnny C.
      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      70 'cuda, Pro-Charged 408 stroker, Tremec 5 speed, Strange S-60, Alter-k-tion, Tri 4, Hydroboost and Wilwoods

    16. #36
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      Nov 2012
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      Hey guys,

      Thanks for chiming in with your thoughts, wishes, ideas & opinions. There is no need to discuss specifics of safety items here, as I have already committed to Larry to start a thread on this, based on my 35 year of protecting race drivers.

      The key difference in my safety thread, is we're going to primarily discuss how to protect yourself on track and how to deal with that protection when you drive on the street. I think the thread I'll be creating may not provide the optimum information for street only PT cars that are not track driven. It may ... and it may not. But non-track cars won't be the primary focus.

      My biggest concern in the PT world is many of us are building cars with race car power, race car handling ... driving them 100-140+ mph on real road course race tracks ... and not including race car levels of protection. We're just asking for people to get killed or seriously impaired. What is important here on this thread, is that everyone voice their opinions, wishes, concerns & ideas on what we want to discuss. And as far as track driven cars go, I will outline optimum safety strategies, designs, products, etc.

      Of course it could be said the rest of the PT guys that are not track driving their cars ... are building cars with modern supercar level power, supercar level handling ... driving them quite spirited & fast when the opportunity arises ... and do not have modern supercar level safety features. There are no air bags, abs & crush zones in most of these cars. So there is a danger level for the street only PT cars too. Maybe there needs to be an expert start a thread on this. But that wouldn't be me, as that's not my background.

      Thanks much !
      Last edited by Ron Sutton; 09-29-2013 at 12:03 PM.

    17. #37
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      Dec 2006
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      Barrie, Ontario, Canada
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      One problem with a roll cage is the insurance company. First question they asked is does it have a roll cage? Seems they don't want to insure cars with roll cages?
      Used to be known as 455regal

    18. #38
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      Dec 2010
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      Fredericksburg, VA.
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      Quote Originally Posted by mitch_04 View Post
      I'd like to see roll bar design theory, the why and how of roll bar design.
      I agree! I currently have a roll bar that was installed in the car back in the late 70's and I'm not sure if it is still relevent today.
      Steve Hayes
      "Dust Off"
      68 Camaro

      Given sufficient initial acceleration, even pigs can fly!

    19. #39
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      Jul 2005
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      Quote Originally Posted by shortrack View Post
      Theres already this great thread on seats, roll bars and fire systems.....


      https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/...s-Fire-systems
      It's an interesting thread. I'm not prepared though to call it, or John the definitive authority on the topics therein.
      True T.

      Whats new with Project 1/2-Trak?


      Follow my wisecracks on Sports, Food, Politics and other BS on Twitter.

      My blog

      When they kick out your front door, How you gonna come?
      With your hands on your head, Or on the trigger of your gun?

    20. #40
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      Apr 2005
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      Cookeville, TN
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      Interesting subject. When this Pro-Touring thing got started, the goal was to build a classic car that rivaled late model muscle or sport cars. The primary use was road use and autocross. Now there are many cars built with supercar levels of power and IMO should have a full cage to have an adequate level of safety for road course use.

      I have ridden in several of the DSE cars at a road course and it is a blast. But I have no roll bars in my Camaro because people use my backseat, especially my Granddaughter. But at least once a month my friends ask me when I'm taking my Camaro to a roadcourse, and sometimes call me chicken when I come up with excuses. For me the rational decision is to only autocross this car. Should I someday want to go road coarse racing, I'll get a track car or convert this one to a track car.
      '69 Camaro - 427 SBC 526hp, 593 ft-lbs, Tremec TKO, Ridetech Coilover Suspension w/TruTurn, Billet-Specialties Draft 18x9, 18x12, BFG KDW 275/335

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