Page 33 of 34 FirstFirst ... 23 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 LastLast
Results 641 to 660 of 670
  1. #641
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,541
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Looking hardcore there John !

    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 412 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmissions, Aero & Much, Much More!


  2. #642
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    241
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    This may be helpful


  3. #643
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    249
    Country Flag: Hungary

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
    The airflow into the grill is always a challenging area. Getting airflow in is easy. Blocking airflow out is easy. The tough part is deciding how much to let in & block off.

    The more airflow you can make go over or around the front end (not in the grill) the more front downforce the car will have. But obviously if we block off too much, the engine overheats.

    For Pro-Touring Cars I am a fan of blocking off any airflow that is not specifically for the radiator & brake ducts. Some bumpers & Lower valances have slots. If they're not needed, block them off in a smooth way.

    As far as the grille goes, I like to make black aluminum sheets (cut to fit) in multiple sizes (or restriction amounts) that go behind the grille to partially close off airflow. Then you can play around with how much to close off without permanently affecting the car's appearance.


    Thanks for the advices.
    We are not racers not even close to that business. We are only average guys with lots of love to the ProTouring cars here in Europe.
    Trying to get as much info as much we can get to build my Nova.
    Actually this is the stage we are now with my front end. Bumper mods almost finish.
    I don't know if this is any good or creating more trouble ))
    The plan is to get more air from here because we will close the grille assy somehow )
    Hopefully that air we get there will be enough for keeping cool the engine.
    I will have vents on the hood behind the radiator so hopefully the air will move through it.
    The air will not be directed by any means. It should go through the bumper into the engine compartment and hopefully leaves through the vents. That is the plan
    Name:  PB162217.JPG
Views: 290
Size:  149.2 KB
    Name:  PB172226.JPG
Views: 289
Size:  189.9 KB

  4. #644
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,541
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by medbali76 View Post
    Thanks for the advices.
    We are not racers not even close to that business. We are only average guys with lots of love to the ProTouring cars here in Europe.
    Trying to get as much info as much we can get to build my Nova.
    Actually this is the stage we are now with my front end. Bumper mods almost finish.
    I don't know if this is any good or creating more trouble ))
    The plan is to get more air from here because we will close the grille assy somehow )
    Hopefully that air we get there will be enough for keeping cool the engine.
    I will have vents on the hood behind the radiator so hopefully the air will move through it.
    The air will not be directed by any means. It should go through the bumper into the engine compartment and hopefully leaves through the vents. That is the plan

    Looks correct. But you'll still need to figure out how much airflow you need to keep the engine cool. I suggest you work up to in steps.
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 412 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmissions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  5. #645
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    249
    Country Flag: Hungary

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
    Looks correct. But you'll still need to figure out how much airflow you need to keep the engine cool. I suggest you work up to in steps.
    I have a very big radiator that should help also. Probably we will leave a few open areas on the grille assy and the air will be ducted from there.

  6. #646
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    122
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Name:  20170423_112016.jpg
Views: 271
Size:  224.3 KBName:  20170510_134624.jpg
Views: 265
Size:  265.0 KB
    What are your thoughts on ducting the radiator this way. I plan to make an air dam to seal the front end off in the corners also. I am also ducting air out of the fenders and plan to build a belly pan soon. Thoughts?
    Name:  20161204_185358.jpg
Views: 264
Size:  182.4 KB

  7. #647
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,541
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtrhd329 View Post
    What are your thoughts on ducting the radiator this way. I plan to make an air dam to seal the front end off in the corners also. I am also ducting air out of the fenders and plan to build a belly pan soon. Thoughts?
    It's hard for me to give you any "absolute" advice on air extraction through the hood, because I don't have any experience in it. All of my aero development experience involved us utilizing the hood as an area to create downforce. I have racing friends who have been involved in race car development with air extraction through the hood and they shared 3 key things with me.

    1. If it's done wrong ... the airflow trying to escape the hood doesn't blend well with the air flow going over the hood ... these two airflow streams will simply collide & create turbulence ... creating little to no downforce. So the goal needs to be to get the airflow coming out of hood to blend well with the air flow going over the hood.

    2. Where the two air streams need to merge is just before the base of the windshield. See photo. If they merge earlier than that, they found no way to avoid turbulence & the loss of downforce. You'll also notice they put a small fin (fiberglass wicker) on the leading edge of the main (center) hood extraction duct. This helps the airflow over the hood separate from the hood & blend into the airflow coming out the extractors cleaner, with reduced turbulence.

    Name:  al3.jpg
Views: 260
Size:  45.7 KB

    3. While the smart move is to make the nose of the car ... and the leading portion of the hood ... as airflow friendly as possibly ... you're still going to have a lot less downforce on the hood. So you want to make sure your extraction strategy created as much or more downforce to make up for it.

    That's all I got. Without hands on experience with this strategy, I find this difficult to offer any specific advice on shapes & locations, other than what my buddies shared. Best wishes.



    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 412 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmissions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  8. #648
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    268
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Hi Ron,

    I have done some aero stuff on the Maverick and it generated some more dramatic results than expected.

    So at the match tour in San Diego 3 weeks ago, I plowed the parking lot with my front air dam due to a bad shut down area on the practice course. The parking lot won.

    So I cobbled up a splitter and raced this last weekend.

    Wow. Just the first drive in the car, it felt different in a way I cant describe just at speeds around 25 mph.

    So on my second lap of practice last weekend, I was driving at my usual to the max level and it was weird. I thought I had broken something in my suspension. After a good inspection I felt every thing was still safely connected and went for another lap.

    It was just really really loose in the rear end, and the front was firmly planted.

    Wow. I did not think the splitter would be that much more effective than the air dam!

    So now I need to increase my rear downforce. Currently I have a 6" rear spoiler that has a little laid back angle to it. This years rules allow for a 10" spoiler at any angel that does not go past the perimeter of the car.

    I see that I have two options. Go max on the spoiler and or make a diffuser. I like the idea of the diffuser more but the complexity of making one is a little daunting. The Idea of no drag increase with down force increase seems ideal.

    So my question is, and I understand there is no definitive answer, will a decently designed diffuser generate a similar downforce gain to what the splitter gave me?

    I also have decided to add air tabs to the roof of the car. How far forward of the rear window should they be?

    Here's pics of the air dam
    Name:  IMG_0815.jpg
Views: 151
Size:  177.1 KB
    Name:  IMG_0954.jpg
Views: 149
Size:  356.2 KB
    Name:  IMG_0955.jpg
Views: 147
Size:  332.6 KB

    Here's pics of the spliter
    Name:  IMG_1022.jpg
Views: 151
Size:  208.1 KB
    Name:  IMG_1023.jpg
Views: 150
Size:  201.0 KB
    Name:  IMG_1031.jpg
Views: 152
Size:  136.9 KB

    Here's pics of the spoiler

    I don't know why this pic loads upside down. Its right side up on my computer and I tried flipping it on the computer and it still loads upside down.
    Name:  IMG_1931.jpg
Views: 149
Size:  174.5 KB
    Name:  IMG_1856.jpg
Views: 150
Size:  175.1 KB
    Name:  IMG_1855.jpg
Views: 150
Size:  186.2 KB
    71 maverick.
    71 comet in build process.
    i work at Current Auto Performance www.currentautoperformance.com. i also build the differentials for San Diego Gear and Axle.

  9. #649
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,541
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Hey Bry !
    Quote Originally Posted by bryant View Post
    Hi Ron,

    I have done some aero stuff on the Maverick and it generated some more dramatic results than expected.

    So at the match tour in San Diego 3 weeks ago, I plowed the parking lot with my front air dam due to a bad shut down area on the practice course. The parking lot won.

    So I cobbled up a splitter and raced this last weekend.

    Wow. Just the first drive in the car, it felt different in a way I cant describe just at speeds around 25 mph.
    That is a BIG front splitter.
    So on my second lap of practice last weekend, I was driving at my usual to the max level and it was weird. I thought I had broken something in my suspension. After a good inspection I felt every thing was still safely connected and went for another lap.

    It was just really really loose in the rear end, and the front was firmly planted.
    That means your splitter is working!

    Wow. I did not think the splitter would be that much more effective than the air dam!
    [B]Yup, Yup ![/B]

    So now I need to increase my rear downforce. Currently I have a 6" rear spoiler that has a little laid back angle to it. This years rules allow for a 10" spoiler at any angel that does not go past the perimeter of the car.

    I see that I have two options. Go max on the spoiler and or make a diffuser. I like the idea of the diffuser more but the complexity of making one is a little daunting. The Idea of no drag increase with down force increase seems ideal.

    So my question is, and I understand there is no definitive answer, will a decently designed diffuser generate a similar downforce gain to what the splitter gave me?

    I also have decided to add air tabs to the roof of the car. How far forward of the rear window should they be?


    Whether adding a diffuser will out perform a 4" increase in spoiler height depends on many factors. Frankly, without a smooth belly pan under your car (almost impossible in a older production car) ... I don't see the diffuser helping "much".

    How much gain additional spoiler length will offer is also based on many variables. But I feel it will be a big gain for you. Maybe too much. Unless you're competing strongly for a year long championship, I'd suggest you take an event & not worry about your finish, and just test.

    I think you'll find a noticeable gain in rear downforce, with your 6" spoiler, just by adding vortex generators to the trailing edge of your roof. Place them 5 per 24" & about 3" from the trailing edge of the roof. If you need more rear downforce to balance the car, increase the rear spoiler length incrementally. This way you don't end up with more (drag) than you need.
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 412 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmissions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  10. #650
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    268
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Thanks Ron,
    The air tabs are in the mail. I will concentrate on making a height adjustable spoiler and do the testing. We have practice the day before most events, so I should not have to throw away a race day. I am in a good fun close points chase this year, so I have to stay on top of my game!
    Thanks again for all the great help!
    71 maverick.
    71 comet in build process.
    i work at Current Auto Performance www.currentautoperformance.com. i also build the differentials for San Diego Gear and Axle.

  11. #651
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Roanoke (FortWorth) Texas
    Posts
    795

    Default

    Hey Bryant... I know... its been while... You could also try a simple wicker bill made out of angled aluminum.
    Chris

    Total Cost Involved - Ridetech - Fatman - Total Control Products - Gateway Performance - MaverickMan Carbon

  12. #652
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    268
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GrabberGT View Post
    Hey Bryant... I know... its been while... You could also try a simple wicker bill made out of angled aluminum.
    Hey Chris... are you racing the Maverick?

    Are you talking about on the top of the spoiler? That would be easy to do.

    Ron, If was to add a wicker bill, how long should it be? Im thinking about 1.5 sounds ascetically right.
    71 maverick.
    71 comet in build process.
    i work at Current Auto Performance www.currentautoperformance.com. i also build the differentials for San Diego Gear and Axle.

  13. #653
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,541
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bryant View Post
    Hey Chris... are you racing the Maverick?

    Are you talking about on the top of the spoiler? That would be easy to do.

    Ron, If was to add a wicker bill, how long should it be? Im thinking about 1.5 sounds ascetically right.

    I suspect your autocross sanctioning body will count the wicker as part of the spoiler length. If you're adding 1.5" in line with the spoiler, that's not really a "wicker bill" as much a "spoiler extension" regardless of material.

    * Think of a wicker bill as having a different angle than the spoiler itself, to slow down airflow across the spoiler. If you're just adding length, on the same plane as the spoiler, let's call that a "spoiler extension."

    With the steep angle you have the spoiler at, you do not need a "wicker bill". But you may want to run a spoiler shorter than the rules limit of 10" and use different lengths of bolt on spoiler extensions to arrive at the optimum overall spoiler length.

    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 412 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmissions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  14. #654
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    268
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Great. I was thinking of attaching some aluminum angle to the top, but knowing that the angle is to much for that, I will make a panel that can slide up and down to tune it with. I will follow up with results!!!
    71 maverick.
    71 comet in build process.
    i work at Current Auto Performance www.currentautoperformance.com. i also build the differentials for San Diego Gear and Axle.

  15. #655
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    268
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    The vortex generators by air tab are installed. Testing at the local practice autocross this Saturday.
    Heres some pics of them
    Name:  IMG_1065.jpg
Views: 96
Size:  146.1 KB
    Name:  IMG_1064.jpg
Views: 98
Size:  167.7 KB
    Name:  IMG_1066.jpg
Views: 97
Size:  140.3 KB
    71 maverick.
    71 comet in build process.
    i work at Current Auto Performance www.currentautoperformance.com. i also build the differentials for San Diego Gear and Axle.

  16. #656
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    san diego
    Posts
    122
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    That paint was a perfect match almost. Impressed!!

  17. #657
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    285

    Default

    Ron, I got a couple quick and easy questions for you (hopefully). I am finally starting to work out all my aero issues and trying to get this egg shaped car some down force!

    My first step was making a front air splitter. That part was easy but something caught my attention. The way my air duct is for my radiator, it seems like it would function as an extension to the splitter. Does this have any downside to it? Is it a plus? This only feeds the radiator and is completely sealed off from everything else.

    Name:  20180430_194227.jpg
Views: 90
Size:  109.4 KB

    Next up is the splitter itself. I know the shape of the front of my car is not optimal for down force. Due to that, should I run it at an certain angle? Is there an angle that you would recommend starting at?

    Name:  20180430_200341.jpg
Views: 93
Size:  117.7 KB

    And lastly, for now, I am looking at adding some side aero. Seeing how far my fenders stick out from the body, I am sure that is hurting things. Would I see a big benefit of making some flat side skirts? Maybe about 6-8" wide to match how wide the fenders are? The bottom of my car is already completely flat so I am assuming it would help tie everything together? Sorry for the sideways picture.

    Name:  20180430_200801.jpg
Views: 89
Size:  67.2 KB

    As always, I appreciate your words of wisdom! In a few weeks I will be back to bother you with questions on rear end aero. Its time to get rid of my non functional wing and make one that works as well as a small diffuser. Thanks to this great thread, I am slowly getting there!
    1970 VW Bug - Just your average mid engine Bug

    @Frankinbeetle on Instagram

  18. #658
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,541
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bugzilla View Post
    Ron, I got a couple quick and easy questions for you (hopefully). I am finally starting to work out all my aero issues and trying to get this egg shaped car some down force!

    My first step was making a front air splitter. That part was easy but something caught my attention. The way my air duct is for my radiator, it seems like it would function as an extension to the splitter. Does this have any downside to it? Is it a plus? This only feeds the radiator and is completely sealed off from everything else.

    Name:  20180430_194227.jpg
Views: 90
Size:  109.4 KB

    Next up is the splitter itself. I know the shape of the front of my car is not optimal for down force. Due to that, should I run it at an certain angle? Is there an angle that you would recommend starting at?

    Name:  20180430_200341.jpg
Views: 93
Size:  117.7 KB

    And lastly, for now, I am looking at adding some side aero. Seeing how far my fenders stick out from the body, I am sure that is hurting things. Would I see a big benefit of making some flat side skirts? Maybe about 6-8" wide to match how wide the fenders are? The bottom of my car is already completely flat so I am assuming it would help tie everything together? Sorry for the sideways picture.

    Name:  20180430_200801.jpg
Views: 89
Size:  67.2 KB

    As always, I appreciate your words of wisdom! In a few weeks I will be back to bother you with questions on rear end aero. Its time to get rid of my non functional wing and make one that works as well as a small diffuser. Thanks to this great thread, I am slowly getting there!
    Quick answers as I head off to Holley LS Fest ...
    1. Side skirts (of strong enough) will create some good downforce.
    2. Yes, your radiator opening will act as additional surface area of the splitter.
    3. No idea on the angle of the car for that round hood to create downforce.
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 412 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmissions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  19. #659
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    285

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
    Quick answers as I head off to Holley LS Fest ...
    1. Side skirts (of strong enough) will create some good downforce.
    2. Yes, your radiator opening will act as additional surface area of the splitter.
    3. No idea on the angle of the car for that round hood to create downforce.
    Once again, thank you for the input! Have fun out there!
    1970 VW Bug - Just your average mid engine Bug

    @Frankinbeetle on Instagram

  20. #660
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    241
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
    Hey Bry !


    Whether adding a diffuser will out perform a 4" increase in spoiler height depends on many factors. Frankly, without a smooth belly pan under your car (almost impossible in a older production car) ... I don't see the diffuser helping "much".
    <snip>
    The other hard part about diffusers is getting them to work in conjunction with the spoiler/wing. Diffusers can work without the pan (quite a few OEM using it to an extent now) but it takes a little work getting that air to it.

Page 33 of 34 FirstFirst ... 23 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 LastLast


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •