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  1. #581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryce View Post
    Spent some time working on my falcon splitter. Plywood is for mock up.
    Bryce, are you planning an air dam between the bumper & the splitter?
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  2. #582
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68EFIvert View Post
    Is there much of a benefit to the recessed portion on the roof of the new Corvette. I assume it would take much more aero that flows the air through that area to make it effective but I thought I would ask. It looks pretty cool and I am thinking about something like it for my 68 Volvo 1800 project.
    http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-cont...NT-626x382.jpg
    Hi Darreld,

    The recessed area on the roof of the Vette & other cars is a positive & effective tool. It does 3 things.
    1. Creates some downforce over the roof.
    2. Reduces the amount of airflow spilling over the side of the roof (wasted airflow).
    3. Directs more airflow to the rear spoiler or wing area.


    Yup, yup. Good thing.
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  3. #583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
    Bryce, are you planning an air dam between the bumper & the splitter?
    Yep, and a top. Like a three sided box.

  4. #584
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    Mar 2015
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    Anaheim, Ca
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
    Hi Darreld,

    The recessed area on the roof of the Vette & other cars is a positive & effective tool. It does 3 things.
    1. Creates some downforce over the roof.
    2. Reduces the amount of airflow spilling over the side of the roof (wasted airflow).
    3. Directs more airflow to the rear spoiler or wing area.


    Yup, yup. Good thing.

    I was thinking about recessing the roof on my car like the corvette and a few other sports cars have. looking at dropping it 3/8" with a 1/8" spill plate. The trunk lid comes all the way up to the back glass so the recess and spill plates would go from the front of the roof to the back glass (which would be recessed) and the trunk would get moved down to match. So from front glass to rear spoiler and the recess would be the width of the back glass (~50") I think it will give the roof a nice body line since I shaved the drip rails.

    Thoughts? Would this be too much or not enough? I don't know if it's quantifiable how effective it would be but it should look cool at the very least lol


    JORDAN

  5. #585
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    I was thinking about recessing the roof on my car like the corvette and a few other sports cars have. looking at dropping it 3/8" with a 1/8" spill plate. The trunk lid comes all the way up to the back glass so the recess and spill plates would go from the front of the roof to the back glass (which would be recessed) and the trunk would get moved down to match. So from front glass to rear spoiler and the recess would be the width of the back glass (~50") I think it will give the roof a nice body line since I shaved the drip rails.

    Thoughts? Would this be too much or not enough? I don't know if it's quantifiable how effective it would be but it should look cool at the very least lol

    Jordan,

    I can't comment on the looks or style. That's personal.

    But will it help the aerodynamics of your car ... specifically downforce in the rear? Yup, you bet. Not sure I can put a number to it, but it's a significant improvement. Especially with the spill plates.






    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  6. #586
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    Mar 2005
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    Walton, NY
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    Ok, I've spent a few nights going over all 30 pages and tried to soak up as much as I could. Great thread!

    I'm happy to read that much of the disco aero on my Camaro is actually rooted in function: pointed nose, front air dam and wheel deflectors, fender vents, rear wheel deflectors and a substantial rear spoiler. Sweet. It also makes sense that the rounded body sides create lift, and hopefully the lowered turn signal channels in the hood make up for the 4" cowl bulge reducing pressure at the windshield.

    So, I'm thinking a front splitter, side splitters, belly pan and rear diffuser would likely be some of the best changes to start with. Here are some questions.

    ? - The front air dam is 5.5" off the ground at ride height, so a 1/4" splitter would be just over 5" before suspension compression - plenty of room to go lower, but the long overhang is already an issue on the street. Is 5" too high to see the benefits of reduced lift?

    ? - Given the bottom-breathing shape of the nose, how far should the splitter extend? And I wonder if closing off the upper grille might be a good idea to reduce airflow into the engine compartment. I could also see where that might be problematic at a traffic light, although there is a fair amount of area under the nose for air to enter. I will calculate the square inches.

    ? - Am I correct in thinking the side splitter would be effective at a growing width from about 2" in front to 6" in rear to match the rear wheel deflector? The shape of the car seems like there would be much more air trying to enter before the rear wheel than right after the front wheel. Rocker height at front is 6.75 and rear is about 8.

    ? - Should I make the rear diffuser slightly oversize in width to make a short side splitter on the rear quarter? This seems like another rounded area that would churn the air.

    Here is a crude mockup with some cardboard and drywall.






    And here's an old video that shows the drag you mention from that tall spoiler. And this is at a pretty slow speed!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn3YTCb7Bvc

    Another related question... I enjoy drag racing, too. Would removing the aero help times down the 1/4? I have heard guys say that removing the stock rear spoiler adds MPH.

  7. #587
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    Oct 2016
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    Hi Ron!

    I've read a good portion of this thread now and will continue to read what I have left aswell. For us non experienced to have someone who has tried and tested a whole book of aero aids and solutions to answear questions is really great!

    My own questions doesn't regard downforce as much as they do drag reduction.. I own an Audi V8 (or 5000 as I belive they were called in the US), a model with a lot better CD than most of the old muscle cars in this thread but still a big and heavy car with high fuel consumption. My aim with this car is to be able to use at tracks and as a daily driver and becouse of that I want to reduce the consumtion as much as I can for day to day use by lowering the drag.

    To do this I have a couple of ideas that I want to incorporate in the final design.
    1. Block/direct the airflow going in to the front. The lower opening will be used for the radiator, oilcooler etc and the grill for the engine intake via tunnels. Holes in the front for brake cooling will be blocked on the road. Other openings will be also be blocked as much as possible.
    2. Small "skirts" infront of all wheels directing the airflow outwards and "around" the wheels, these will be made in a way that suits the body so perfect function might not be possible.
    3. Minimizing gaps between panels, keeping windows as flusch as possible etc.
    4. Flat floor with splitter and some kind of diffuser.

    The first two I feel isn't that big of a hassle, but the floor.. Since I really don't want to cook the diffs and gearbox and the exhaust porb will get quite hot with a full floor I'm planning of having an opening in the middle.

    Se picture:


    Starting from the front.
    Red is the splitter.
    Orange are wedges that will direct airflow from the tires, I've read that wedges produce less drag but also a small amount of lift compared to an angular metal profil for instance. Hence the brown lines within the red area where I could make the floor higher from the ground producing a low pressure area that should counteract the lift generated by the wedges. Correct?

    Then we have the pink lines which is where I imagine an opening to let the hot air escape somewhere. The start of this opening could be designed more like a NACA duct with an "S-curve" on each side. But this would also mean that I get turbulent airflow from the engine bay down under the car.. So I'm considering putting a rubber edge on the hole that extends say 25-40mm depending on the rideheight the car will get. This way I should be able to guide the air coming from the front around the opening, correct?

    Then we have the yelloy and brown lines that go along the length of the car. These lines also represent a place where I'm considering a rubber egde of 25-40mm to guide the air. But If I have got this right, in order for this airflow to be able to generate a small degree of downforce the guided area for the airflow should remain constant OR gradually get larger, correct?
    So if I went with the yellow lines I would need to make the channel taller again which might not be possible, or I could draw the edge outwards to maintain the width of the channel instead.
    The plan here would be to have this egde all the way from the front "diffuser" along the car to the rear "diffuser" making it a form of venturi tunnel. Am I going in the right direction with these thoughts?

    The green area then is the rear diffuser where I thought I'd dedicate the center section to guide the most of the turbulent air from the center openingen out and on the sides guide the air from the "venturi" tunnels out.

    Blue areas are areas that will be just flat without any guing of the air.

    Does this seem like a decent solution for reducing drag the most and at the same time not making the car more unstable but maybe instead even gaining some downforce? Maybe the rear wheels should have wedges infront of them to?

    This is a pic of an Audi V8, here in DTM clothing (this luxury sedan actually won the DTM in -90 and -91!) My car originally had the "Evo" rear spoiler which is the same as the DTM one, and my car will get one again in the future.
    http://www.audiworld.com/wp-content/...3/header69.jpg

    Edit: Reading on in the thread I saw some discussion about the C4 Corvette's lower side body shape, maybe an addition of side splitters would be a good move considering the Audi's shape from the doors down aswell?

  8. #588
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    Aug 2010
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    Seattle area
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    There are a number of ways to build a side skirt on a later 2nd Camaros,I have Used an IMSA nose on my 1979 Z-28 RS Camaro.Pr-Touring car.I have at one time mounted a flexible one on the front spoiler and on the sides ,Using wall edging and aluminum angle bracing.Because it is stiff but flexible so it can live on our "wonderful" roads. And there are other members who have done other things based on the 190-81 IMSA/ SCCA race cars,Or some cars such as the Roadsters Shop`s "Rampage.It all up to your imagination.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  9. #589
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    Oct 2016
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    Hi everyone. There is so much good stuff here, and I am soaking it up like a sponge. Big thanks to Ron for starting this!

    I have a 65 Mustang Coupe, and am looking to make it more stable for freeway and some nice, curvy, fast mountain roads we have around here. I have some good ideas about front aero and belly pan. My big question is about the rear glass area. I know that flow sucks there, and was considering Airtabs and a short (6") decklid extension with a wickerbill (1 - 2").

    This is a car that will probable never see race conditions. It is also a husband and wife project, and I had a hard enough time convincing the wife that we should add a spoiler of some type. A LARGE spoiler or wing is likely not going to happen.

    Thanks

  10. #590
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    Hey Woody !

    Quote Originally Posted by woody80z28 View Post
    Ok, I've spent a few nights going over all 30 pages and tried to soak up as much as I could. Great thread!
    Thanks.

    I'm happy to read that much of the disco aero on my Camaro is actually rooted in function: pointed nose, front air dam and wheel deflectors, fender vents, rear wheel deflectors and a substantial rear spoiler. Sweet.
    While they are functional, they're not as effective as modern designs, but you can both utilize them & improve them.

    It also makes sense that the rounded body sides create lift, and hopefully the lowered turn signal channels in the hood make up for the 4" cowl bulge reducing pressure at the windshield.

    So, I'm thinking a front splitter, side splitters, belly pan and rear diffuser would likely be some of the best changes to start with. Here are some questions.
    Great choices.

    ? - The front air dam is 5.5" off the ground at ride height, so a 1/4" splitter would be just over 5" before suspension compression - plenty of room to go lower, but the long overhang is already an issue on the street. Is 5" too high to see the benefits of reduced lift?
    That is high. But it all depends on how far you travel the suspension down (compression) in dive under braking & also how much shock tie down you utilize. I've designed a lot of car the splitter is 4.5" above ground ... at ride height. But in full dive (high travel/low roll suspension strategy) the car put the splitter on the ground (or very close). The high zero number shock valving held the front end down through the roll through zone. And the relatively stiff rebound valving only allowed the front end to come up slowly. So by the time the car's speed was up to a point where the down force created overcame the spring pressure pushing up ... the splitter was only 2.5-3" off the ground on the straight aways. Meaning the car never gets back to ride height on course. This is a race strategy to make the high ride height inconsequential. Otherwise, with a normal street set-up or old school race set up, you may get more lift than down force from the 5" height.


    ? - Given the bottom-breathing shape of the nose, how far should the splitter extend?
    That's all based on how much downforce you want. The longer the splitter ... the more downforce it will create ... assuming it is somewhat rigid & doesn't flex. The gain is not linear. Meaning a 4" splitter doesn't create twice as much down force as a 2" splitter. The gain is digressive. There are a lot of variables, but for example a 4" splitter may create 70-80% more downforce than a 2" splitter.

    And I wonder if closing off the upper grille might be a good idea to reduce airflow into the engine compartment. I could also see where that might be problematic at a traffic light, although there is a fair amount of area under the nose for air to enter. I will calculate the square inches.
    This will absolutely increase downforce on this model of Camaro. But you have to balance it with engine cooling. Use something removable like aluminum panels & Duct tape behind the grille.

    ? - Am I correct in thinking the side splitter would be effective at a growing width from about 2" in front to 6" in rear to match the rear wheel deflector?
    Oh, I don't know about that.

    The shape of the car seems like there would be much more air trying to enter before the rear wheel than right after the front wheel. Rocker height at front is 6.75 and rear is about 8.
    True.

    ? - Should I make the rear diffuser slightly oversize in width to make a short side splitter on the rear quarter?
    No.

    This seems like another rounded area that would churn the air.
    The diffuser's side plates (strakes) will prevent air from rolling under.

    Here is a crude mockup with some cardboard and drywall.

    Another related question... I enjoy drag racing, too. Would removing the aero help times down the 1/4? I have heard guys say that removing the stock rear spoiler adds MPH.
    Yes.
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  11. #591
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Walton, NY
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    Thanks, Ron. I've been waiting for your reply like a kid at Christmas. haha Here are a couple follow up questions in bold italics:

    Ok, I've spent a few nights going over all 30 pages and tried to soak up as much as I could. Great thread!
    Thanks.

    I'm happy to read that much of the disco aero on my Camaro is actually rooted in function: pointed nose, front air dam and wheel deflectors, fender vents, rear wheel deflectors and a substantial rear spoiler. Sweet.
    While they are functional, they're not as effective as modern designs, but you can both utilize them & improve them.
    It also makes sense that the rounded body sides create lift, and hopefully the lowered turn signal channels in the hood make up for the 4" cowl bulge reducing pressure at the windshield.

    So, I'm thinking a front splitter, side splitters, belly pan and rear diffuser would likely be some of the best changes to start with. Here are some questions.
    Great choices.

    ? - The front air dam is 5.5" off the ground at ride height, so a 1/4" splitter would be just over 5" before suspension compression - plenty of room to go lower, but the long overhang is already an issue on the street. Is 5" too high to see the benefits of reduced lift?
    That is high. But it all depends on how far you travel the suspension down (compression) in dive under braking & also how much shock tie down you utilize. I've designed a lot of car the splitter is 4.5" above ground ... at ride height. But in full dive (high travel/low roll suspension strategy) the car put the splitter on the ground (or very close). The high zero number shock valving held the front end down through the roll through zone. And the relatively stiff rebound valving only allowed the front end to come up slowly. So by the time the car's speed was up to a point where the down force created overcame the spring pressure pushing up ... the splitter was only 2.5-3" off the ground on the straight aways. Meaning the car never gets back to ride height on course. This is a race strategy to make the high ride height inconsequential. Otherwise, with a normal street set-up or old school race set up, you may get more lift than down force from the 5" height.
    I measured my ground clearance at the crossmember and it is also 5. So I'm guessing about another inch is all I could come down before tearing stuff up. Would 4" from the ground be beneficial? I don't know if people run them that low on the street and have them survive.

    ? - Given the bottom-breathing shape of the nose, how far should the splitter extend?
    That's all based on how much downforce you want. The longer the splitter ... the more downforce it will create ... assuming it is somewhat rigid & doesn't flex. The gain is not linear. Meaning a 4" splitter doesn't create twice as much down force as a 2" splitter. The gain is digressive. There are a lot of variables, but for example a 4" splitter may create 70-80% more downforce than a 2" splitter.
    So I take it you wouldn't worry about the shape of the nose over the splitter causing more lift than downforce? Just the height off the ground being the concern?

    And I wonder if closing off the upper grille might be a good idea to reduce airflow into the engine compartment. I could also see where that might be problematic at a traffic light, although there is a fair amount of area under the nose for air to enter. I will calculate the square inches.
    This will absolutely increase downforce on this model of Camaro. But you have to balance it with engine cooling. Use something removable like aluminum panels & Duct tape behind the grille.
    Duct tape to seal off the nose to the aluminum panel? The openings under the chin come to 42.5sqin. (upper grille 165, radiator 468)

    ? - Am I correct in thinking the side splitter would be effective at a growing width from about 2" in front to 6" in rear to match the rear wheel deflector?
    Oh, I don't know about that.
    What would you recommend? The curve under is pretty steep.

    The shape of the car seems like there would be much more air trying to enter before the rear wheel than right after the front wheel. Rocker height at front is 6.75 and rear is about 8.
    True.

    ? - Should I make the rear diffuser slightly oversize in width to make a short side splitter on the rear quarter?
    No. Ok.
    This seems like another rounded area that would churn the air.
    The diffuser's side plates (strakes) will prevent air from rolling under.
    Ok. I have seen some respected cars doing what looks like a rear quarter splitter in my recent searches, but they are at about a 45 to the ground, not on the same plane. What would you call these, and what is their purpose?
    Brian Finch 2G 2015 Z28

    Another related question... I enjoy drag racing, too. Would removing the aero help times down the 1/4? I have heard guys say that removing the stock rear spoiler adds MPH.
    Yes.

    Thanks again for the advice! Your willingness to share your wealth of knowledge does not go unappreciated.

  12. #592
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    Mar 2007
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    World Time Attack Championships are this weekend. They are somewhat ricey compared with the cars here but are also some of the least restricted cars as far as aero is concerned so there's usually some cool stuff there that's over the top looking, but apparently works. Livestream here http://live.worldtimeattack.com/

  13. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by woody80z28 View Post
    Thanks, Ron. I've been waiting for your reply like a kid at Christmas. haha Here are a couple follow up questions in bold italics:

    Ok, I've spent a few nights going over all 30 pages and tried to soak up as much as I could. Great thread!
    Thanks.

    I'm happy to read that much of the disco aero on my Camaro is actually rooted in function: pointed nose, front air dam and wheel deflectors, fender vents, rear wheel deflectors and a substantial rear spoiler. Sweet.
    While they are functional, they're not as effective as modern designs, but you can both utilize them & improve them.
    It also makes sense that the rounded body sides create lift, and hopefully the lowered turn signal channels in the hood make up for the 4" cowl bulge reducing pressure at the windshield.

    So, I'm thinking a front splitter, side splitters, belly pan and rear diffuser would likely be some of the best changes to start with. Here are some questions.
    Great choices.

    ? - The front air dam is 5.5" off the ground at ride height, so a 1/4" splitter would be just over 5" before suspension compression - plenty of room to go lower, but the long overhang is already an issue on the street. Is 5" too high to see the benefits of reduced lift?
    That is high. But it all depends on how far you travel the suspension down (compression) in dive under braking & also how much shock tie down you utilize. I've designed a lot of car the splitter is 4.5" above ground ... at ride height. But in full dive (high travel/low roll suspension strategy) the car put the splitter on the ground (or very close). The high zero number shock valving held the front end down through the roll through zone. And the relatively stiff rebound valving only allowed the front end to come up slowly. So by the time the car's speed was up to a point where the down force created overcame the spring pressure pushing up ... the splitter was only 2.5-3" off the ground on the straight aways. Meaning the car never gets back to ride height on course. This is a race strategy to make the high ride height inconsequential. Otherwise, with a normal street set-up or old school race set up, you may get more lift than down force from the 5" height.
    I measured my ground clearance at the crossmember and it is also 5. So I'm guessing about another inch is all I could come down before tearing stuff up. Would 4" from the ground be beneficial? I don't know if people run them that low on the street and have them survive.
    First, don't let me decide how much ground clearance you want or need. I see a lot of people running 4", some more, some a little less. But you'll need to decide what you're OK with. But if you do lower the car 1" to 4" of ground clearance ... then yes, a 4" ride height would be much more beneficial than a 5" ride height.


    ? - Given the bottom-breathing shape of the nose, how far should the splitter extend?
    That's all based on how much downforce you want. The longer the splitter ... the more downforce it will create ... assuming it is somewhat rigid & doesn't flex. The gain is not linear. Meaning a 4" splitter doesn't create twice as much down force as a 2" splitter. The gain is digressive. There are a lot of variables, but for example a 4" splitter may create 70-80% more downforce than a 2" splitter.
    So I take it you wouldn't worry about the shape of the nose over the splitter causing more lift than downforce?
    Oh I absolutely concern myself with the shape of the nose. It's a big deal.
    Just the height off the ground being the concern?

    And the height off the ground, angle & length of the splitter all come into play.

    And I wonder if closing off the upper grille might be a good idea to reduce airflow into the engine compartment. I could also see where that might be problematic at a traffic light, although there is a fair amount of area under the nose for air to enter. I will calculate the square inches.
    This will absolutely increase downforce on this model of Camaro. But you have to balance it with engine cooling. Use something removable like aluminum panels & Duct tape behind the grille.
    Duct tape to seal off the nose to the aluminum panel?
    Yes. Or Dzus fasteners & an assortment of panels.
    The openings under the chin come to 42.5sqin. (upper grille 165, radiator 468)

    Lot of air. Too much for optimum track performance. Make it so you can seal some of that off.

    ? - Am I correct in thinking the side splitter would be effective at a growing width from about 2" in front to 6" in rear to match the rear wheel deflector?
    Oh, I don't know about that.
    What would you recommend? The curve under is pretty steep.
    After seeing your photos .... if that is 6" ... I thought it looked good, effective & not extremely vulnerable. So go with that if you like it as well.

    The shape of the car seems like there would be much more air trying to enter before the rear wheel than right after the front wheel. Rocker height at front is 6.75 and rear is about 8.
    True.

    ? - Should I make the rear diffuser slightly oversize in width to make a short side splitter on the rear quarter?
    No. Ok.
    This seems like another rounded area that would churn the air.
    The diffuser's side plates (strakes) will prevent air from rolling under.
    Ok. I have seen some respected cars doing what looks like a rear quarter splitter in my recent searches, but they are at about a 45 to the ground, not on the same plane. What would you call these, and what is their purpose?
    Brian Finch 2G 2015 Z28
    Ah! Gotcha. I thought your Diffuser was going all the way across the back. But you're thinking about running a narrower diffusser in the middle & side splitters on the lower rear quarter fenders. That should work fine, but I haven't done the testing to say one way or another if it is as effective as the full width diffuser. My guess is that it is not as effective. But that's not the only deciding factor.


    Another related question... I enjoy drag racing, too. Would removing the aero help times down the 1/4? I have heard guys say that removing the stock rear spoiler adds MPH.
    Yes.

    Thanks again for the advice! Your willingness to share your wealth of knowledge does not go unappreciated.
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  14. #594
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    Isn't technology great?

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    Donny

    Support your local hot rod shop!

  15. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontlifttoshift View Post
    Isn't technology great?

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Views: 253
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    I think her udders are getting tickled. Just sayin'
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  16. #596
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by dontlifttoshift View Post
    Isn't technology great?

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    The first words that popped into my head was "cattle drive".LOL

    Ken
    If there is a hard way to do something, I'll find it!
    My other car is a Vega.

  17. #597
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    Oct 2016
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    Pacific Northwest
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    Hi All.
    I think my previous post got skipped over, so here's the short version:
    Thanks Ron for all the knowledge!
    I already have plans for the front and under side of my 65 Mustang coupe. What do you suppose would be the minimum requirements to add noticeable down force to the back of the coupe? I was considering: diffuser, a decklid extension with a wickerbill, and possibly vortex generators on the back of the roof. This car will be more freeway than speedway for sure.

    Thanks again.

    Tires are just really expensive wear parts...


  18. #598
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArclightZRO View Post
    Hi All.
    I think my previous post got skipped over, so here's the short version:
    Thanks Ron for all the knowledge!
    I already have plans for the front and under side of my 65 Mustang coupe. What do you suppose would be the minimum requirements to add noticeable down force to the back of the coupe? I was considering: diffuser, a decklid extension with a wickerbill, and possibly vortex generators on the back of the roof. This car will be more freeway than speedway for sure.

    Thanks again.
    I'm not sure how to answer this exactly. You can get noticeable down force to the back of the coupe with just a spoiler. Everything you mentioned will improve & add downforce. So the question for you is how much do you want?
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  19. #599
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
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    Pacific Northwest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post
    I'm not sure how to answer this exactly. You can get noticeable down force to the back of the coupe with just a spoiler. Everything you mentioned will improve & add downforce. So the question for you is how much do you want?
    That's what I was afraid of. As this car likely won't be raced, I don't have a firm target to aim at. I am looking for a well glued ride when hitting the freeway and mountain passes, without a large wing or long/steep spoiler.

    I guess I am asking, would a 6" long decklid extension with a 3/4" wickerbill be enough to make a noticeable improvement over stock? Would the 6" be enough if I skipped the vortex generators? I know that if it is too short, you get nearly zero improvement.

    It is getting an air dam, splitter, and belly pan, and I personally would setup a larger spoiler, but the wife is putting a lot of time in on this car project with me, and she gets a say (she does not want any aero, and likes the shape of the car as it is now)
    Tires are just really expensive wear parts...

  20. #600
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,351
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArclightZRO View Post
    That's what I was afraid of. As this car likely won't be raced, I don't have a firm target to aim at. I am looking for a well glued ride when hitting the freeway and mountain passes, without a large wing or long/steep spoiler.

    I guess I am asking, would a 6" long decklid extension with a 3/4" wickerbill be enough to make a noticeable improvement over stock? Would the 6" be enough if I skipped the vortex generators? I know that if it is too short, you get nearly zero improvement.

    It is getting an air dam, splitter, and belly pan, and I personally would setup a larger spoiler, but the wife is putting a lot of time in on this car project with me, and she gets a say (she does not want any aero, and likes the shape of the car as it is now)
    To me a 6" spoiler is pretty good sized. If you built a 6" spoiler somewhere around 30, then put a 3/4" wickerbill on it, you'd have pretty good package for the rear. Of course, since you're doing a full belly pan, if you built in a well designed diffuser in the rear, it would be even better. For what you're doing, I don't think the VGs on the roof are necessary.

    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

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