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  1. #561
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    I found these on lateral G also if anyone else wants to see. I have a few ideas how to make it work, having the air exit at the top is going to be easier for sure.


    JORDAN


  2. #562
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    Would small scoops on the top of the quarter panels like the c7r and z06 for a rear end and trans cooler be ok or is there a better place for them? My car has a similar dip in the quarters so it was a though but I do have an abundance of room everywhere lol so packaging isn't an issue


    JORDAN

  3. #563
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    Mar 2007
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    I had the opportunity to do some real world tuft testing this weekend. I have a 70 TA that was shipped down to me to have some suspension, steering, and other work done. Before shipping it back, the owner wanted me to drive it around and put a hundred or two miles on it. He's an engineer in the fluids business so he's interested in my aero work and was kind enough to let me use his TA as a test mule. So I broke out the big ball of yarn and a roll of auto masking tape and set about covering the areas of the car I'm most interested in we could video without another car.

    This car is almost just like mine as far as the body goes and has now been lowered to the same ride height. The tire/wheel combination is very close to the same width and diameter as mine. So this gives me a great car to do baseline testing on.

    I took the car up on the highway where our posted speeds are 65 MPH and ran the car between 60-70 in the slow lane, ya traffic moves right along here!

    I used a Samsung 360 degree 3D virtual reality camera my bud Jeff operated for these two short you tube videos. If you have a fancy phone you can probably move the phone right/left to swing the view 360 while watching and may be able to move up/down. If you have other mobile devices like tablets/notebooks you may be able to scroll right/left for 360 viewing. If you have a 3D headset that's Oculus compatible you should be able to view in 360 3D VR.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KQA9BzpN50

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6pxo5eh7Zw

    Now, once I have the video's uploaded to youtube I can play them back through the computer and through the projector to the big screen where I can see details better. Just walk up to the screen and I can watch each individual yarn tuft if I want. After these videos were done and we learned a bit about how to video this kind of stuff I covered one whole side of the car with the yarn tufts and have another bud who's going to join in the fun next time so I can get pics and video taken from another car allowing me to get shots of the front side and rear of the car in clean air where the camera etc. don't disturb the airflow. You should see the looks we get on public roads with the yarn tufts and camera on a stick stuck out the window!




  4. #564
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    Mar 2007
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    Got the car back up on the highway for some more video. The video camera was too far away from the car so it's harder to see what the yarn is doing in the video. The still shots turned out to be more useful. Video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDv9Us8GEGY

    And here's a few still shots.






  5. #565
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    Sep 2008
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    That's pretty cool to see the low and high pressure on parts of the car. Are you testing with windows down?
    Craig Scholl
    CJD Automotive, LLC
    Jacksonville, Florida
    904-400-1802
    www.cjdautomotive.com

    "I own a Mopar, I already know it won't be in stock, won't ship tomorrow, and won't fit without modification."

  6. #566
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    Yes, testing was done with windows down because all of the road track events I've run my car at required windows down and that's my primary use for my own car. Using this blue 70 allowed me to get a baseline look at whats going on. I've already altered things on my car that aren't quickly removable so once I can start tuft testing on my own car I'll have these baseline pics to see if the things I've done helped or hurt. Once my car is assembled I'll be doing a lot more tuft testing and will do tests with windows up also as the sanctioned Land Speed Races require windows up.

    I'm glad I did the testing and was surprised by a few things. As an example the stagnation point on the front is higher than I thought. Note the tufts on the front air am are going almost straight down.

  7. #567
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    looks like those fender vents have a bit of a dead spot.

  8. #568
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    So based on the still photos, if you were going to make modifications, what would they be and why?

  9. #569
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellPhish89 View Post
    looks like those fender vents have a bit of a dead spot.
    I believe what we're seeing there is that the higher pressure air under hood is coming out of the vent which is raising the pressure there as it enters the flow on the outside of the car. So the vents are doing what they were intended to do. It'll be interesting to see the results with my modified vents that have steeper angles and much larger openings.

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Mc Mahon View Post
    So based on the still photos, if you were going to make modifications, what would they be and why?
    I've already decided on (and executed) most of the exterior modifications this baseline tuft testing is related to. Most of the modifications have been shown previously in this thread. I'm currently working on the details for the belly pan, tunnels, and diffuser design. Since I'm not trying to "win" anything and don't compete in any of the PT type events I'm not trying to keep anything secret for some kind of competitive advantage and figured I'd just share as I move forward. If something doesn't work and was a waste of time and money, I'll share. And if something seems to work well I'll share that also.

  11. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    Would small scoops on the top of the quarter panels like the c7r and z06 for a rear end and trans cooler be ok or is there a better place for them? My car has a similar dip in the quarters so it was a though but I do have an abundance of room everywhere lol so packaging isn't an issue

    That location is a good location as far as a good source for airflow. I prefer to pull it from somewhere else & keep that airflow for downforce. By somewhere else, I mean from inside the cockpit (windows down) or on the side of the quarter fenders in front of the wheel opening. As long as those are good enough airflow sources for your cooling needs, I prefer that & keep the downforce.


    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  12. #572
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOT A TA View Post
    I believe what we're seeing there is that the higher pressure air under hood is coming out of the vent which is raising the pressure there as it enters the flow on the outside of the car. So the vents are doing what they were intended to do. It'll be interesting to see the results with my modified vents that have steeper angles and much larger openings.
    would you like a manometer to borrow for a month to find out?

  13. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by HellPhish89 View Post
    would you like a manometer to borrow for a month to find out?
    Sure, that'd be awesome! However, I have to ship the car back to the customer in a week or so. If you could ship it Mon. I could do some testing later in the week or on the weekend and and return it the following week. I plan on buying one (or more) inexpensive ones to do testing on my car once it's together, meanwhile all available cash needs to go toward the car itself to finish it. Thought about making homemade ones with tubing but having something that's calibrated so I have values at certain vehicle speeds would cool. Will send ya a PM

  14. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOT A TA View Post
    Yes, testing was done with windows down because all of the road track events I've run my car at required windows down and that's my primary use for my own car. Using this blue 70 allowed me to get a baseline look at whats going on. I've already altered things on my car that aren't quickly removable so once I can start tuft testing on my own car I'll have these baseline pics to see if the things I've done helped or hurt. Once my car is assembled I'll be doing a lot more tuft testing and will do tests with windows up also as the sanctioned Land Speed Races require windows up.

    I'm glad I did the testing and was surprised by a few things. As an example the stagnation point on the front is higher than I thought. Note the tufts on the front air am are going almost straight down.

    Can I ask what events require windows down? I was kind of back and forth on how I plan on doing brake ducting and venting the passenger compartment, I was unaware that some races required it one way or another..... I might just have to do my venting both ways now lol, I don't want to be limited on what I can do with the car nor do I want to leave anything "on the table"

    Thanks


    JORDAN

  15. #575
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    Can I ask what events require windows down? I was kind of back and forth on how I plan on doing brake ducting and venting the passenger compartment, I was unaware that some races required it one way or another..... I might just have to do my venting both ways now lol, I don't want to be limited on what I can do with the car nor do I want to leave anything "on the table"

    Thanks
    Road track days I've been to on the East coast with SCDA, PDA, NASA, etc. all required windows down in HPDE. East coast drag strips with NHRA NMCA, etc windows up. Standing mile Land Speed Racing with ECTA @ Maxton and Mile Marker 1 @ Dade/Collier windows up. Have not done open road events.

    The things I've done were all in what would be considered entry level classes used to entice people with street legal cars. There may be options for window nets or other restraining devices instead of windows, I'd check whatever groups and classes you're planning on entering and move forward from there.

  16. #576
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    Awesome thanks! I'll probably end up doing it both ways just in case lol


    JORDAN

  17. #577
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    Nov 2011
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    84

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    Ron,

    My project is a 3rd Gen Camaro that I hope to be competing with soon. Iím relying on mechanical grip to get me through the low speed autocross courses. However, on the road courses many competitors are running very aggressive aero. I think Iíll be at a disadvantage without a true splitter so at some point I might have to do something like dive planes on the front and some sort of diffuser at the rear. Any ideas on dive plane size and placement? Iíve not seen a lot of discussion about them here probably because they are not an aero item that fits the style of most of the cars on this site.

    Iíd also like to get your opinion about the other modifications to my car and see if you think Iíll obtain that elusive net down force. Since I follow this thread I know not everything about this car is optimal, Iíve tried to balance performance, budget and style. The car will see lots of autocross action but I hope to do some events where hot laps are part of the competition.

    I have kind of modeled the car after the original IROC Camaros. Suspension changes allow the car to sit 1.5 inches lower than stock. The nose is a fiberglass piece that has been heavily worked. The chin spoiler has been lowered 1.75 inches all the way around and the bottom extends back to the radiator support. The chin will sit just about 4 inches from the road. This should greatly reduce the air flowing under the car. The radiator will get all of its air from the grill which has been opened up some and custom ducting funnels all the air into the radiator. The turn signal buckets have been turned into brake ducts.
    The hood is a three-inch tall cowl induction that has had the cowl sealed up and a 2014 Camaro hood vent grafted in to relieve some under hood pressure and heat.

    I am building fenders lips that will deflect air around the front tires. And finally, the rear spoiler is five inches tall. I built an extension that fits on the front side which adjusts up to give me an additional two inches of height. The angle remains the same.

    Thanks,


    Greg

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  18. #578
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    Spent some time working on my falcon splitter. Plywood is for mock up.
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  19. #579
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    Oct 2007
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    Is there much of a benefit to the recessed portion on the roof of the new Corvette. I assume it would take much more aero that flows the air through that area to make it effective but I thought I would ask. It looks pretty cool and I am thinking about something like it for my 68 Volvo 1800 project.
    http://blog.caranddriver.com/wp-cont...NT-626x382.jpg

  20. #580
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    Nov 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by 87camaroZ28 View Post
    Ron,

    My project is a 3rd Gen Camaro that I hope to be competing with soon. Iím relying on mechanical grip to get me through the low speed autocross courses. However, on the road courses many competitors are running very aggressive aero. I think Iíll be at a disadvantage without a true splitter so at some point I might have to do something like dive planes on the front and some sort of diffuser at the rear. Any ideas on dive plane size and placement? Iíve not seen a lot of discussion about them here probably because they are not an aero item that fits the style of most of the cars on this site.

    Iíd also like to get your opinion about the other modifications to my car and see if you think Iíll obtain that elusive net down force. Since I follow this thread I know not everything about this car is optimal, Iíve tried to balance performance, budget and style. The car will see lots of autocross action but I hope to do some events where hot laps are part of the competition.

    I have kind of modeled the car after the original IROC Camaros. Suspension changes allow the car to sit 1.5 inches lower than stock. The nose is a fiberglass piece that has been heavily worked. The chin spoiler has been lowered 1.75 inches all the way around and the bottom extends back to the radiator support. The chin will sit just about 4 inches from the road. This should greatly reduce the air flowing under the car. The radiator will get all of its air from the grill which has been opened up some and custom ducting funnels all the air into the radiator. The turn signal buckets have been turned into brake ducts.
    The hood is a three-inch tall cowl induction that has had the cowl sealed up and a 2014 Camaro hood vent grafted in to relieve some under hood pressure and heat.

    I am building fenders lips that will deflect air around the front tires. And finally, the rear spoiler is five inches tall. I built an extension that fits on the front side which adjusts up to give me an additional two inches of height. The angle remains the same.

    Thanks,


    Greg
    Hi Greg,

    Dive Planes are one of the aero areas that really require a wind tunnel to design & mount optimally. Without knowing how the air is flowing at the front & around the side of your car's nose ... we'd just be guessing.

    On the other hand, an effective splitter under your front dam can be designed without a wind tunnel.

    Best wishes.
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

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