Page 27 of 33 FirstFirst ... 17 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 ... LastLast
Results 521 to 540 of 642
  1. #521
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Anaheim, Ca
    Posts
    169
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    http://image.hotrod.com/f/96474012+w...daytona-24.jpg




    Anyone know what the C7R corvette splitter is made out of? Seems pretty long to not have any supports, I'd like to run something with out the struts because I don't like the look on my car. Hopefully it's strong, cheap and light! Lol


    JORDAN


  2. #522
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    238
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Sutton View Post

    Glad the analysis made sense.

    Frankly, for me to go spend time with CFD, I'd have to have a client project funding me to do so. Even though I am "semi-retired" ... yeah right ... LOL ... I am staying crazy busy these days with my workshops, suspension & chassis designs for commercial clients, suspension set-ups for individual clients, Track Warrior parts & complete cars, brake designs, etc, etc. I don't have any major clients hiring me for aerodynamic design. So, I'll just share what I already know on these forums.


    Hmm, that gives me an idea that could be a fun pro-touring.com project...

  3. #523
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    238
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    http://image.hotrod.com/f/96474012+w...daytona-24.jpg


    Anyone know what the C7R corvette splitter is made out of? Seems pretty long to not have any supports, I'd like to run something with out the struts because I don't like the look on my car. Hopefully it's strong, cheap and light! Lol
    Carbon.

    Remember, direction and type of weave matters as well as the overall shape. That thing was engineered to not need supports. It couldve been made to flex a certain amount too. The extreme being F1's flexiwings.

  4. #524
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Anaheim, Ca
    Posts
    169
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Well carbon is a little rich for my blood lol, I've searched for ideas and haven't been able to find much. Anyone know of good splitter and wing material? (Sorry to be a little off topic)


    JORDAN

  5. #525
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,351
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    Well carbon is a little rich for my blood lol, I've searched for ideas and haven't been able to find much. Anyone know of good splitter and wing material? (Sorry to be a little off topic)

    Carbon fiber, aluminum & fiberglass are all good materials for wings/spoilers. Almost the same for splitters, except I'd add ABS plastic. We've made a lot of lost cost splitters out of 1/4" thick black ABS because it is tough & inexpensive to replace. But it's not as strong as Carbon fiber, so you'll need to support it if you extend the lip beyond 1.5".


    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  6. #526
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Anaheim, Ca
    Posts
    169
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    How thick for an aluminum splitter without struts? If I'm going to put the end of the splitter even with the end of my bumper (and the same shape for looks) how long should I make it? The longer the splitter gets the farther back the air dam will be, I'm just not sure where the sweet spot for compromise would be, splitter length vs air dam closer to the front.


    JORDAN

  7. #527
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,351
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    How thick for an aluminum splitter without struts? If I'm going to put the end of the splitter even with the end of my bumper (and the same shape for looks) how long should I make it? The longer the splitter gets the farther back the air dam will be, I'm just not sure where the sweet spot for compromise would be, splitter length vs air dam closer to the front.

    You're on the right track. Make the the leading edge of the splitter flush with the leading edge of the bumper ... and place the vertical airdam back a few inches behind both.

    I apologize Jordan, we have wandered into an area I don't have much experience at. I never tested materials, thicknesses & lengths of splitters to see how long I can build one without supports. I "almost" always ran supports. Once a 1.5" splitter, made out of 1/4" carbon fiber, we ran no supports, and it worked well. But I've never gone longer without supports. So you'll need to experiment with this on your own & let us know.

    As far as length of splitter, the longer you make it (assuming it's not flexing) the more front downforce it creates ... but it is a decreasing reward per inch. When I'm looking for all the front downforce I can get & have no rules limiting us, I run the splitter out about 5". Frankly, it is only about 22% more effective than running it 3" ... so it depends on if you're going for good, better or best downforce.




    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  8. #528
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Anaheim, Ca
    Posts
    169
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    So with a splitter of 5" long and about 80" wide how much down force in lbs could I expect roughly? My thought is to block up a piece of aluminum and if it's 200lbs of downforce I would just stand on it and see if it bows lol not very scientific I guess, but maybe it will work. I know that my weight would be concentrated in one area so maybe I could do a little math and figure out how far to set my feet apart based on splitter length and estimated downforce. My thinking is to make a nice rigid aluminum splitter. 3 1/2" - 4" long then use a 1"- 1 1/2" ABS end piece that's attaches with flush mount screws so if it gets chipped, scraped or busted it's easily replaced


    JORDAN

  9. #529
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,351
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    So with a splitter of 5" long and about 80" wide how much down force in lbs could I expect roughly? My thought is to block up a piece of aluminum and if it's 200lbs of downforce I would just stand on it and see if it bows lol not very scientific I guess, but maybe it will work. I know that my weight would be concentrated in one area so maybe I could do a little math and figure out how far to set my feet apart based on splitter length and estimated downforce. My thinking is to make a nice rigid aluminum splitter. 3 1/2" - 4" long then use a 1"- 1 1/2" ABS end piece that's attaches with flush mount screws so if it gets chipped, scraped or busted it's easily replaced
    Too many factors at play to guess how much downforce you will achieve. But the target should be 300#+ at high speeds. So think about laying lead blocks on top of the splitter all the way around. You're looking for minimal deflection (1/16") ... or we're giving up downforce.


    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  10. #530
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Anaheim, Ca
    Posts
    169
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Would spill plates just where the back window is help anything? I don't think they would look good on the roof but I have to shim up the back glass to make it flush anyway so maybe some clear L shaped plastic to set the back glass on would kill two birds....


    JORDAN

  11. #531
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,351
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    Would spill plates just where the back window is help anything? I don't think they would look good on the roof but I have to shim up the back glass to make it flush anyway so maybe some clear L shaped plastic to set the back glass on would kill two birds....
    Oh yeah !

    I know you're not running them ... but spill plates on the roof help the airflow over the roof end up on the back glass, deck & wing or spoiler ... as opposed to rolling off the edges of the roof.

    Spill plates on the back glass do the same & "can do" more. If they're tall enough ... the spill plates on the glass act like strakes ... straightening the airflow. This preps the airflow to work better over the decklid & spoiler or wing. Frankly, if they're really tall (too tall to look good) they literally create side force when cornering. You can see the TALL clear plate on this NASCAR Cup car shown here ...

    Name:  691496-2012-nsc-test-keselowski.jpg
Views: 246
Size:  19.0 KB

    I am posting a photo of an oval track car ... just because it was handy. But look at the 4 strake type spill plates leading up the spoiler. Those actually catch side draft airflow when cornering ... creating what is known as side force ... helping the car to have a little more rear grip on corner entry.

    Name:  Modified Spoiler with 45 Wicker - Side View.JPG
Views: 242
Size:  342.8 KB
    Last edited by Ron Sutton; 05-24-2016 at 07:13 PM.
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  12. #532
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,351
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Hey Guys!

    I'm stepping away from the keyboard for about 10 days. I've got a shock development track day Friday ... then a camping/quading trip for 10 days with my family. I'll be back on here after June 6th.




    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  13. #533
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Anaheim, Ca
    Posts
    169
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    How tall would roof and back glass spill plates have to be to make a considerable difference on a PT car? I've seen some pretty short looking ones on bonniville cars....


    JORDAN

  14. #534
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Anaheim, Ca
    Posts
    169
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Not sure if I'm going to be able to keep my engine under a flat hood but if I can't should I run the cowl induction sccop the whole length of the hood or keep it as short as I can more like a stock 70 chevelle or a TA firebird shaker?


    JORDAN

  15. #535
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,356
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    How tall would roof and back glass spill plates have to be to make a considerable difference on a PT car? I've seen some pretty short looking ones on bonniville cars....
    SCTA/BNI rules require roof rails as a safety item to reduce lift by acting as a spoiler if the car starts to spin. Dunno where my old rulebook is to check what classes require them but here's a recent thread over on the LSR forum about them and a little history. http://www.landracing.com/forum/inde...c,15508.0.html

  16. #536
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,351
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    How tall would roof and back glass spill plates have to be to make a considerable difference on a PT car? I've seen some pretty short looking ones on bonniville cars....

    Oh ... 1/4" makes a difference. Of course 3/8" is better & 1/2" is better than that. We're mainly trying to keep the attached airflow ... attached. We're not trying to redirect major volumes of air.




    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  17. #537
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,351
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BADBET View Post
    Not sure if I'm going to be able to keep my engine under a flat hood but if I can't should I run the cowl induction sccop the whole length of the hood or keep it as short as I can more like a stock 70 chevelle or a TA firebird shaker?
    What works best is smooth, mild transitions. So in stock cars, we actually run flat hoods .. well sorta flat ... and make them angle up from the nose to a higher point on the windshield.

    Name:  racetwo 030.jpg
Views: 186
Size:  136.4 KB


    I would suggest using a Chevelle style cowl scoop ... except make your own ... and make the transition start all the way at the leading edge (or near it) of the hood and have it rise & separate from the hood gradually over the length of the hood.

    In other words, go from 0" split at the leading edge to 3-6" split (from hood scoop to hood) at the point you contact the windshield. Make the top of the scoop flat, smooth & the rise very gentle.





    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  18. #538
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    238
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    One of the weird subjects in aerodynamics that is brought up from time to time:
    http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...s-reduce-drag/

  19. #539
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    2,351
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HellPhish89 View Post
    One of the weird subjects in aerodynamics that is brought up from time to time:
    http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...s-reduce-drag/
    I have quite a bit if experience with this. The writer of the story missed four major points:
    1. What the real goal is.
    2. How it works.
    3. Size matters.
    4. The exceptions of when it doesn't work.

    I'm typing this answer on my phone, so I'm going to be brief.

    1. The goal is have the airflow follow a curved surfaced & stay attached to the surface. This creates force ... lift or downforce depending on the surface orientation.

    2. The key to achieving this is turn the airflow into vortices, at the leading surface of the curve we're targeting. Vortices cause the airflow to follow a curved surface ... when the typical turbulent airflow would not. It would become detached in the worst way ... tumbling & roiling, which causes drag with no lift or downforce benefit.

    3. The size of curve & volume of airflow matters. Larger curves & volumes of airflow need larger vortex generators to convert the airflow into the optimum size & quantity of vortices. Smaller curved shapes need smaller vortex generators. The 2 trailing, angled edges of the hex shaped dimple on a golf ball are appropriately sized vortex generators for optimum airflow attachment. A slightly larger size works well on the floors on intake ports. Car roofs & curved body shapes require larger vortex generators.

    4. There are situations where adding vortex generators have no effect. This is when there is no significant airflow attach to start with. A prime example is the nose of a car. The nose is punching such a forceful hole into the air ... that a bow wave is created ... forcing the air out & around the nose of the car. Farther down the car, the airflow reconnects with the body. How far depends on the size of the bow wave crested by nose shape & speed. For this reason if we put vortex generators on the leading edge of the nose, they are ineffective.


    Does that provide some clarity?




    Ron Sutton
    Last edited by Ron Sutton; 07-05-2016 at 10:16 AM.
    Feel free to chime in or ask technical questions. I am here to help where I can.

    Ron Sutton

    Ron Sutton Race Technology
    Your One Stop, Turn & Go Fast, Car Building Resource Center for Autocross, Track, Road Racing & Triple Duty Pro-Touring Cars

    Check out our 400 Page Car Building Catalog HERE

    Features: Suspension, Chassis, Cages, Brakes, Rear Ends, Engines, Transmisssions, Aero & Much, Much More!

  20. #540
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    238
    Country Flag: United States

    Default

    Interesting. Using it on the underside of a wing or even splitter would possibly allow for more aggressive angles while mitigating the risk of detachment? Also, there is a direct relation between curve, vortex required, and size/shape of dimple required?

    Further, if shape matters, wouldnt a tear drop shaped dimple be closest to ideal?

Page 27 of 33 FirstFirst ... 17 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 ... LastLast


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •