driving a PT car with over 600rwhp - Pro-Touring.com

nightrunner · #1 05-27-2009, 04:00 PM

who here drives a PT car spiritedly or in competition (other than drag racing) with over 600rwhp? meaning street racing, road course, auto-x, general spirited driving on public roads, twisty mountain roads etc.

how does it drive? is it fairly easy to handle that kind of power in a car with street tires or is it just really a handful?

reason i ask is most of the time when the subject comes up, i hear that about 550-600rwhp is the cutoff to actually be streetable on street tires unless you have either some 100 or less -treadwear road course tires or drag radials or better.

is it actually worth the extra cost to go beyond 600rwhp to 700-1000rwhp on street tires when you rarely if ever drag race? or will you usually be faster through corners with 600rwhp and good traction than with 1000rwhp and little to no traction?

this is given on the exact same car/chassis/suspension/brakes/weight/etc.

car in mind is a 70 chevelle

class67 · #2 05-27-2009, 04:08 PM

Hhmmm...this will be interesting reading material.

I personally think that 500-550 is plenty for the street and enough to get you into as much trouble as you can handle.

nightrunner · #3 05-27-2009, 04:18 PM

side note, anybody know of a calculator to find out how much rwhp it takes to achieve a certain 1/4mile et. given a certain weight?

bigvegan · #4 05-27-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightrunner

side note, anybody know of a calculator to find out how much rwhp it takes to achieve a certain 1/4mile et. given a certain weight?

You mean like this?

http://robrobinette.com/et.htm

nightrunner · #5 05-27-2009, 04:57 PM

yes, thank you

Throttle · #6 05-27-2009, 06:17 PM

I know many people in this area that drive 600+ hp cars on a daily basis..

Check out PhoenixEvo's videos on Streetfire.com..

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/R...ATX_204367.htm

WS6 · #7 05-27-2009, 06:33 PM

It's going to depend on where you make power not how much. Case in point. A Procharged C5 Z06 makes 540rwhp and 450 ftlbs at the rear wheels. It's a blast to drive. It's fast but it doesn;t build power til 3000 rpms. A cammed/magnacharged C5 M6 makes 460 rwhp and 445 ft lbs. This car make that torque number at 2500 rpms. It's a lot more fun to drive because it destroys tires instantly and needs no rpms to build power like the Procharger does. The magnacharged car will get you into serious trouble very quickly because of where and how it builds power. Think rainy roads and slightly too hard on the gas pedal situation.

I personally, don't think I'll be happy approaching 500rwhp or more on a street car. The reason is simple for me. You get up to a ridiculous speed so quickly, that your fun is over before it has begun. Just my opinion though.

nightrunner · #8 05-27-2009, 06:36 PM

not to contradict anything that has been posted but i d mean 600rwhp on motor, whether it be boosted or not. but the 600rwhp DOES NOT include any nitrous shot it may or may not have

Throttle · #9 05-27-2009, 06:42 PM

We go on cruises all the time in 600+ cars and they are easy to drive, as long as you are smart about it..

Throttle · #10 05-27-2009, 06:44 PM

Ws6 has a point.. I have a 450 rwhp truck that has 4.56 gears and a 4 speed that I dont even like to drive anymore..

JEFFTATE · #11 05-27-2009, 07:03 PM

My opinion is that it is hard to harness 600 rwhp on street tires. ( Meaning regular z-rated 220 to 300 treadwear rating tires ).
That's if you are using a street car chassis with some performance handling upgrades.
Now , a racecar / track chassis can lay the power down a little better.
But somebody bragging about having 600 rwhp in a street car is just bench racing .
A stock C6 Z06 is plenty on the street.
Any more is just overkill and useless bragging..
A huge amount of power is good for dragracing ( acceleration )or long straightaways ( Top speed ).
But for regular , everday driving..No..

I think 500hp to 600 hp at the crank is plenty for a street car.
500hp at the crank will get you approximately 440hp to the rear wheels.
600hp will get you approximately 528rwhp.

nightrunner · #12 05-27-2009, 07:09 PM

yes, when i think of street tires i think of approx a 300 treadwear rating

Flash68 · #13 05-27-2009, 09:35 PM

this is a good question and I will be finding out very soon what my opinion is on this matter.

79-TA · #14 05-27-2009, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WS6

It's going to depend on where you make power not how much. Case in point. A Procharged C5 Z06 makes 540rwhp and 450 ftlbs at the rear wheels. It's a blast to drive. It's fast but it doesn;t build power til 3000 rpms. A cammed/magnacharged C5 M6 makes 460 rwhp and 445 ft lbs. This car make that torque number at 2500 rpms. It's a lot more fun to drive because it destroys tires instantly and needs no rpms to build power like the Procharger does. The magnacharged car will get you into serious trouble very quickly because of where and how it builds power. Think rainy roads and slightly too hard on the gas pedal situation.

I personally, don't think I'll be happy approaching 500rwhp or more on a street car. The reason is simple for me. You get up to a ridiculous speed so quickly, that your fun is over before it has begun. Just my opinion though.

Yea, as the saying goes, "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."

That's why I'm leaving my daily driver fox body stock . . . for now.

Flash68 · #15 05-28-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 79-TA

Yea, as the saying goes, "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow."

Never heard that one. And I definitely don't agree with it!

wicked68 · #16 05-28-2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEFFTATE

My opinion is that it is hard to harness 600 rwhp on street tires. ( Meaning regular z-rated 220 to 300 treadwear rating tires ).
That's if you are using a street car chassis with some performance handling upgrades.
Now , a racecar / track chassis can lay the power down a little better.
But some body bragging about having 600 rwhp in a street car is just bench racing .
A stock C6 Z06 is plenty on the street.
Any more is just overkill and useless bragging..
A huge amount of power is good for dragracing ( acceleration )or long straightaways ( Top speed ).
But for regular , everday driving..No..

I think 500hp to 600 hp at the crank is plenty for a street car.
500hp at the crank will get you approximately 440hp to the rear wheels.
600hp will get you approximately 528rwhp.

I disagree with you on the conversion numbers - usually you are going to have 25-30% loss from bhp to rwhp

case in point - I run a tko600 5 speed on my car and tuesday on the dyno I produced 720 rwhp on a dynojet at 5800 rpm and that was using 515 lb ./hr of fuel which is about 1000 bhp. That was 93 octane.

automatic transmissions are going to be on the higher end of the loss curves.

I quite enjoy having the hp in the car - it allows me to drive the car around town quite easily and have as much power as i want ( I dont street race) but also go to the track and be in the 10's easily (I think I will break into the 9s this month).

Its all about how you drive it - its very manageable - my mom can drive it except the clutch is a bit heavy. I have a procharger and yes you can really feel the power come on at 3000 rpm - which as you know is above most driving around town - below that the car is in the under 400hp range which is no problem at all.

I like many on the board dont have many cars - so I am glad to have my 1 versatile car (that I can armchair brag - lol with).

If I could have 7 cars - I might think differently.

JEFFTATE · #17 05-28-2009, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wicked68

I disagree with you on the conversion numbers - usually you are going to have 25-30% loss from bhp to rwhp.

Sorry , I calculated at an 18% loss.
That may be a little off.
25% is probably a better number.

1969CamaroRS · #18 05-28-2009, 06:33 AM

25%-30% sounds high. I thought around 15% for a manual and 20% for auto were reasonable approximations? Of course depends on a lot of factors.

Vegas69 · #19 05-28-2009, 06:38 AM

15% loss on torque and 16% horsepower for me with my TKO 600.

gmorris · #20 05-28-2009, 07:09 AM

My 540 made 750HP on the engine dyno and is easy to drive on the street. I do run R888's on it though which really helps the traction situation. I also used AFR 335 heads which are big enough to limit power until you get up around 4K RPM. It still makes tons of low end torque so around town I basically drive it from 2000-3500 RPM and then when it's on the track and you keep it about 3500 it pulls like there's no tomorrow...works really well for me.