C5 Disc Brake Swap for 67-69 Camaro

[Pete68]

I've been coming to the site for answers and only posted a few things, so here is my contribution, attempt at your own risk. This is a work in progress so please let me know if I've made any mistakes or if I've missed anything. Enjoy. : )

This is the story of my journey to actually having a muscle car that stops. This swap was performed on a 68 Camaro Coupe with the following specs; your car may be different.

• Base model 210hp 327 2-barrel V-8 with Powerglide trans with console shift
• Originally a non-power assist drum brake camaro
• Rear axle is stock 10 bolt
• Heidts 2” tall drop spindle up front
• Hotchkis 1½” drop multi-leaf springs

Parts you will need / Services you will need performed:

Front Drum Hubs. You need original GM front drum hubs (disc brake front hubs will not work), if your car has disc or some other brakes on the front you can easily find these hubs at an old classic car junkyard in your neighborhood. GM used these for many years so they should be easy to find. Or you can buy them on eBay, or maybe even the auto parts store? You won’t need the drums or any other hardware, just the hubs, the C5 rotors will mount on them. You will need to machine the hubs to front and rear to fit the “rotor hats” (the section of the rotor that fits over the hub), you will need to machine a bit less than 6” off, take it to the local machine shop and have them measure the rotors and machine it for you.

C5 Calipers(eBay/craigslist). These calipers are made in Australia by PBR and are badass. They are aluminum, not cast iron like the old calipers and some aftermarket ones. Aluminum means they are much lighter and dissipate heat much better. The C5 calipers and 13” rotors are 5lbs less per corner than the 11” rotors and calipers from the 60’s / 70’s. So now in addition to better braking you will take 10lbs off the front of your Camaro, unsprung weight too, which is the best weight to lose. Less unsprung weight = good, even on a crappy 40-year-old muscle car suspension. If you have a 68 or 69 Camaro you will need two C5 left rear calipers because of the staggered shocks, get a remanufactured one at Pep Boys (or whatever local auto parts store you have nearby, it was approx $70, use the right side caliper you will not use as the core, they won’t check and won’t know)

C5 Rotors (eBay/craigslist). These are 13” front rotors…not 11” like the originals from the 60’s and 70’s. Rear rotors are 12”. Big brakes=good, that’s why Ferraris and Lamborghinis have huge brakes! Your best bet for ebay are C5 owners that are tracking their cars and want better brakes, the C5 brakes are great for the street, not so great for hardcore track use, these guys tend to sell their old brakes on ebay.

C5 Master Cylinder(eBay/craigslist). It’s made of lightweight aluminum, and the master cylinder is clear plastic so you can see the fluid level. Yes, you can use your existing crappy cast iron master cylinder if you want but why would you want to when you can use a modern one for $100 extra? Cast iron master cylinders rust which can cause leakage between the internal rubber seals, eventually leading to a mushy pedal. You will need to cut the C5 brake pedal push rod and re-tap the end that I cut it so it will work with the old Camaro brake pedal, this just takes some measuring, then shim the booster at the firewall to get the correct spacing and to make sure it clears the hood, takes a bit of measuring and trial and error but is easy. You may need to shim the booster a bit so it angles down more, mine hit the hood a little. Be sure to use two nuts to hold the rod where it attaches to the pedal and use red Locktite to make sure it does not come loose.

C5 Brake Booster (eBay/craigslist). Get the master cylinder and booster together if you can, it’s almost a direct bolt in. Almost! I think I got booster and master cylinder on eBay for ~$140?

4 Adapter Brackets (Kore3.com). To mount the new calipers to the old spindle in front, and axle in back, you will need adapter brackets. You will need different brackets based on different spindles so check the Kore3.com website to see what you have/need. Kore3 bracket kits also include very good directions, follow them closely.

4 Brake Lines(Kore3.com). These are the flexible brake lines that go from the hard brake lines to the caliper. These need to be special lines that have different fittings on each end, one end goes to the old original Camaro hard lines, and the other end is designed to fit the new Corvette calipers. Remember, the Corvette calipers have a more modern style fitting…regular Camaro flexible brake lines will not work, and regular C5 corvette lines will not work. You need these special lines. Luckily the guys at www.Kore3.com have em, they are pretty helpful too if you call.

Disc/Disc Proportioning Valve (eBay). I got an aluminum one on eBay for around $40 I think. Make sure you get a Disc/Disc one since that’s what you will have when you are done! Your current prop valve is most likely a Disc/Drum or a Drum/Drum…that will not work with the new C5 Disc/Disc setup.

2 Small Hard Brake Lines from Master Cylinder to Proportioning Valve. You will need 2 hard lines to connect the C5 master cylinder to the Disc/Disc proportioning valve. If you use your stock master cylinder you will not need these. This was perhaps the trickiest part of the swap, the lines must be old school type flare at the proportioning valve and bubble-type flare at the master cylinder. I bought bubble type flare stock tubes at the auto parts store and then cut one end, flared them with an old school flare and then bent them to fit, I then borrowed a friends flare tool and created the flare for the proportioning valve. It leaked. So I redid it. It leaked again. I redid it again this time without crushing the fitting so much, I allowed it to crush a bit while I was tightening it, no leaks! If needed some parts stores may be able to do this for you, or a brake shop can, ask around if you don’t want to do this.

Wheel studs (Summit Racing). I recommend upgrading from stock 7/16 studs to M12x1.5 (which are 12mm). I think I used ARP 100-7708, they are a bit long though. Your front hubs and rear axle will need to be removed so a machine shop can drill out and install these for you.

Machining: As with the front hubs you will also need to machine your rear axle hubs so the rotor hats will fit over the hub, only a tiny amount needs to be machined off, just a few mm, I suppose this could be done on the car but the best thing to do is remove the rear axle and have it machined at a local machine shop. Overall rear hub diameter should be 6”, same as the front, measure the inside of the rotor hats to make sure the size is right.

Larger wheels. 13” rotors are big, my Camaro had 14” wheels from the factory, so these brakes are only 1” smaller than the original wheels! These rotors will fit on some 17” wheels, use 18”s if you want to be sure they will fit. Kore3.com has cutouts you can print to check your wheels to make sure they fit.

Brake line from body to rear axle (Classic Industries). Its probably a good time to change this brake line. I bought the factory original style one from www.classicindustries.com. I’m not positive but the one on my car was most likely original, 40-year-old soft brake lines are not a good idea!

Note: I did not install an adjustable proportioning valve to adjust the pressure from front to rear, it actually turned out fine as is, but you may need to do this. How to test if you need: After putting everything together do so hard braking in the dry and wet, if the rear locks up too early you may need to install a proportioning valve.

I never said it was super easy, if you are the kinda guy who likes to have someone else wash your car, change your oil, etc, this may not be the best modification for you. But if you do it, remember: keep focused on the small steps and not the big task at hand and it will go easy.

Car really brakes well now, and the pedal feel is amazing, super firm with great feedback. Ill drive it for a month straight now as my daily driver sometimes. My car is an automatic transmission car and I currently have no parking brake which kinda sucks but you can do a parking brake, www.Kore3.com offers a kit, I just spaced and didn’t do it, but I will once I rebuild the rear axle with a posi unit. I think some other GM parking brakes from other vehicles will work but I have not looked into that yet, if anyone know send me an email.

Why not just buy aftermarket brakes? In my opinion here’s why:

• Used OE parts are much cheaper
• GM parts are easy to find in junkyards, on craigslist, and on eBay
• Original GM parts are engineered by a team of experienced GM engineers, and since these are Corvette brakes they are arguably the best engineers at GM. They are not “engineered” by some guys in their garage like the aftermarket stuff...we are talking brakes after all!
• GM parts must pass a full battery of GM strength, durability, corrosion, and effectiveness tests before they are put on your car, they are therefore less likely to fail prematurely, break, corrode, fit loosely, etc.
• GM parts will be easy to service many years in the future cause the parts will still be available, they will always offer parts for old Corvettes, even at the local parts store (can’t say the same for most of the aftermarket parts, who knows if they will still be around in a few years when you need parts like brake pads, or a caliper bolt)

My Background

I’m Pete, I bought my 68 Camaro in 1988 for $900 at the age of 15, its older than I am. I bought it from the original owner, it had 4-wheel non-power drum brakes…they sucked, sucked bad. So I went to the junkyard in the early 90’s and got some front discs off an early 70’s Nova, they bolted right up. Problem solved right? No, they sucked bad too. Overall braking was mediocre under the best of circumstances, and panic stops resulted in the rear drums locking up and the car sitting perpendicular to the intended direction of travel, not good. And believe me I know how bad they were; the car was my daily driver for 9 years!!

After college I got a “real car” and parked the old Camaro. After the camaro sat in my grandma’s garage for 12 years I decided it was time to do a second restoration. But I promised myself if I was going to drive the car again it had to have good brakes, my daily driver is now a Porsche Boxster S and I was now accustomed to VERY good brakes, some of the best in the world…and I was remembering my near death experiences in the Camaro and its crappy 40 year old brake technology. But I didn’t want aftermarket for a variety of reasons, and that’s how I ended up with C5 brakes.

Estimated the costs for the C5 brakes, remember this is for front AND rear:

Estimated Costs:
Calipers and Rotors $250 ebay
Reman rear left rotor (for 68 and 69 only) $75 auto parts store
Master cylinder and booster $150 ebay
Proportioning valve $40 ebay
Adapter brackets $190 kore3.com
Brake lines $140 kore3.com
Wheel studs $50 summit racing
Hard brake lines $20 auto parts store
Machining axles & Wheel stud installation $100 local machine shop
TOTAL $1015

There may be $100 or so that Im forgetting. Feel free to email me if anyone has questions.

http://carphotos.cardomain.com/ride_...0014_large.jpg

Warning: Attempt all of these modifications at your own risk. If you are not sure of your abilities do not attempt these modifications. I am not responsible for any information in this article; it is simply a recap of how I performed this modification. Your vehicle may be different, please consult a professional regarding everything you read here.

[rohrt]

Nice write up. Where were you on Monday when I started researching this?

[raf0419]

WOW! Thank you so much for the post. I've had an internal struggle trying to decide on C5 conversion or an aftermarket setup. I wonder if anyone has done the C5 conversion, then went aftermarket. If so I would love feedback on the pros/cons of each setup.

[Ishmael]

I'll bet the c5 or c5/lt1 swap is the biggest topic in brakes - somebody ask Apogee. There are questions about this on a daily basis. Guys search this forum for it constantly. There are slightly different ways to go about it but why not make this a sticky? I understand that there could be an insurance issue if someone followed it and had an accident.

[1360]

This info is great....I want to do this w/ my F-85 - just wonder if the crager soft 8 17" would clear. I'd rather stay away from 18's from a cost standpoint.

[Pete68]

I can tell you that the car brakes really well now, I've done a few panic stops to see what the car will do and it does not easily lock up, its just stops, it brakes super hard. I tried it in the rain and it still performed really well, no need for a proportioning valve. I have 225s in the front and 275s in the rear, plus they are high performance Toyo tires which means they stick really well...Im sure that helps too, as the car used to have some old rock hard BF Goodrich TA's. Also, I think the larger rear tires help a bit in keeping the rears from locking (used to have 235s on all four corners).

And the pedal feel is really good, its super firm, the pedal feel is maybe better than my 03 Boxster S. Really nice, great feedback, very confidence inspiring!

As for aftermarket, lets say you still have your car in 10 years, what if the company that made your brakes is no longer around? Or what if they dont make that model anymore? Where will you find replacement parts? I'm super hesitant to go aftermarket anything if their is an alternative, much of it us sourced from China and I question the engineering and durability testing (if any) that is going into the aftermarket stuff, its one thing to have aftermarket seat covers or an aftermarket center console lid...but aftermarket brakes? C5 brakes were on the Corvette from 1997-2004, its hard to get much better than that.

[Tucks69]

I have this same set up on my 68. It has been through 3 auto-x's this year and down the tail of the dragon. Brakes work perfect. Mine are manual though, the power option sounds better. Mine will tire you out over a long period. I have the hybrid set up on the front with 17s. Great write up!

[JEFFTATE]

Good info.
I'm interested in upgrading mine too.
I'm weighing my options / needs / budget ..

[IndyNova]

Will this set-up work for any eng combination, ex: LS motors?

[z4me69]

pete the availability is the same reason i decided to go with the kore stuff a friend of mine here in louisville has been waiting almost 5 months for wilwoods

[Apogee]

Originally Posted by 1360

This info is great....I want to do this w/ my F-85 - just wonder if the crager soft 8 17" would clear. I'd rather stay away from 18's from a cost standpoint.

Check out Tommy England's '72 Camaro on our Rides page. He's running C5 front and rear with 17x8/9 Cragar Soft 8's without any issues...and in fact, he's actually upgraded to the larger C6 Z51 rotors and PABs since that was posted and kept the same wheels. I'm fairly certain a little grinding was involved, but it has been done. Does Cragar even offer an 18" Soft 8?

Tobin
KORE3

[Apogee]

Originally Posted by 70IndyChevelle

Will this set-up work for any eng combination, ex: LS motors?

Vacuum assist brakes require vacuum to function properly. It doesn't matter if it comes from an engine or an auxilliary vacuum source, so long as it's available in adequate levels and volume. If you go manual or hydro-boost, that more or less takes the engine out of the equation.

Tobin
KORE3

[IndyNova]

ok, thanks. by hubs, do you guys mean the z06 hubs, because I thought that there were the drum brake spindles, but the actual hub was built into the rotor itself. I noticed that the vette rotors, looked like it needed the hub to function properly. Sorry if i'm hi-jacking this thread, but there is so many brake options, i want to make sure I get everything lined out before i buy parts.

[Apogee]

If you'll reread the original post, it discusses the use of Chevy drum hubs for the C5/C6 swap. We prefer to see the flange cut down to 5.94" OD with a 1/8" x 45 degree chamfer versus just 6" like stated in the OP so that it will fit C6 rotors as well as the C5 rotors, but you get the idea.

All Corvette rotors from the C2 all the way up through the C6 applications are slip-on type rotors, so you will need a hub of some sort to hold the rotor. The C5 and C6 Corvettes use unitized hub assemblies that bolt onto the knuckle. As such, they are only compatible with C5/C6 knuckles. Most older disc applications starting in the late-60's used integral hub/rotors until much more recently when unitized hubs have more or less become the status quo.

Tobin
KORE3

[IndyNova]

ahh, i get it now. so unless there is a spindle designed for a nova/camaro to accept c6 brakes, c5 is the best you can get using the two piston calipers? I'd be interested to know how dificult it would be to adapt the 6 piston z06 brakes for that application.

[Apogee]

Originally Posted by 70IndyChevelle

ahh, i get it now. so unless there is a spindle designed for a nova/camaro to accept c6 brakes, c5 is the best you can get using the two piston calipers? I'd be interested to know how dificult it would be to adapt the 6 piston z06 brakes for that application.

Hmm, I don't think you get it. The C5 and C6 knuckles are basically the same from a brake stand point. You can bolt C5, C6, C6 Z51, C6 Z06 or C6 ZR1 brakes to any C5/C6 knuckle. The mounting points and offsets are the same between them. Most of the points made in the first post apply whether you want to adapt C5 or C6 brakes to your car...any configuration.

There is an aftermarket replacement spindle for the A/F/X-bodies designed to accept all of the C5/C6 brakes and that is the ATS AFX spindle. You could also run one of the aftermarket subframes that use C5 or C6 knuckles. The third and final option is to run an adapter bracket like the kits we sell to allow the use of C5/C6 brake components on the factory spindles.

Tobin
KORE3

[ZZ427]

Very informative . . . Tobin as soon as I get my finances straightened out I will be contacting you .

[1360]

If I finish w/ the paint, I'm looking into this.....thanks for the info.

[sebtarta]

What was used for the rear brakes? Do you have staggered shocks and used two left calipers? Or did you use L+R calipers?

any pictures of the rear brakes? thank you.

[Pete68]

If you have a 68 or 69 Camaro you will need two C5 left rear calipers because of the staggered shocks, get a remanufactured one at Pep Boys (or whatever local auto parts store you have nearby, it was approx $70, use the right side caliper you will not use as the core, they won’t check and won’t know)

I dont have any good pics of the rear brakes, sorry