PDA

View Full Version : Help me with T-56 clutch master hookup!



BuddyP
01-26-2012, 08:50 PM
When I had the motor and tranny mated up to one another I had a line installed to the slave for future hook up. Well, I just picked up a clutch master with resivoir and line and am not sure how to hook it up. Looks like the gold end maybe is supposed to hook up to directly to the slave? Anyhow, what is my best option (without pulling the motor and tranny apart) to get this hooked up?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

BuddyP
01-26-2012, 09:55 PM
PS... my tranny is out of a '04 GTO

AintQik
01-27-2012, 08:44 AM
Uh, Buddy I dunno. My slave/throwout has a hardline then a flex hose like yours and I don't recall anything that the gold piece would fit in. But, I never had a GTO. What master did you get? I am running a Wilwood and it uses a braided line that mates to the slave. Can you change hoses on the master?

dj3
01-27-2012, 10:35 AM
The gold quick disconnect works with the ls1 camaros and probably others, but you will need a GTO master to hook it up. I actually did the same thing on my GTO trans, it was just easier and less expensive to pull the trans and install a LS1 slave.

http://kb.ls1gto.com/KB/article.aspx?id=10830

AintQik
01-27-2012, 11:23 AM
Well I'm guessing since the transmission is hooked up the easiest thing would be to change or replace the master with the gold coupler.

BuddyP
01-27-2012, 04:25 PM
Ok, well whats the easiest way to modify or replace the line on my master cylinder?

Mike Holleman
01-28-2012, 06:43 AM
Ok, well whats the easiest way to modify or replace the line on my master cylinder?

Buddy, You may recall I went thru all of this a few years back when I was building the Elky. I used an LS2 T56 from an 05 GTO. My best advise is switch the release bearing(slave) over to Camaro style,98/02, as most of what is in the aftermarket uses this arrangement. Lucky for me I had a mentor, the late Terry Stevens, advising me and he lead me down the right path. Also before installing the new slave attach a remote bleeder to it. It will make bleeding your clutch painless. Also if you are using the stock GM master for 98/02 camaro with the plastic body you will need to fab a stop on your clutch pedal that limits travel to 15/16". This will keep it from bottoming out and damaging the plastic body. Anyway hope I've been some help to you. Mike

BuddyP
01-28-2012, 11:26 AM
Thanks Mike. Well, I have my tranny motor and subframe all hooked up to the body. I was really not wanting to pull any of it back apart. If I pull the tranny back off the motor, will the clutch plate need re-aligned at all? Or can I just pull the tranny off and put it back on?

Does anybody know the torque specs for the bolts holding the bell housing to the block?

I'd also be for checking into different master cylinders and returning the LS1 master also.

Van B
01-28-2012, 11:46 AM
As long as you don't unbolt the pressure plate the clutch will stay in place. As always, you just have to be careful to line everything up putting it back in, get the input shaft splines engaged with the clutch and most importantly, don't force it in.

Mike Holleman
01-28-2012, 01:43 PM
What are you looking for in a master? If you are changing the release brg but staying 98/02 camaro type, look at Tick performances master. That is what I am now running in the Elky and my racecar. I don't torque the bell housing bolts, although I'm sure GM has a spec. Just good and snug. And as Jeff said, the clutch disc should not move as long as the pressure plate is left alone. Mike


Thanks Mike. Well, I have my tranny motor and subframe all hooked up to the body. I was really not wanting to pull any of it back apart. If I pull the tranny back off the motor, will the clutch plate need re-aligned at all? Or can I just pull the tranny off and put it back on?

Does anybody know the torque specs for the bolts holding the bell housing to the block?

I'd also be for checking into different master cylinders and returning the LS1 master also.

BuddyP
01-28-2012, 08:51 PM
Ha, looking for the easiest most convenient and cost effective master setup. Does't matter to me if it is 4th gen type or not. How easily do the Wilwood setups bolt in?

Mike Holleman
01-29-2012, 02:17 PM
Ha, looking for the easiest most convenient and cost effective master setup. Does't matter to me if it is 4th gen type or not. How easily do the Wilwood setups bolt in?

Buddy, What clutch did you use? Disc and pressure. As long as it is not a race version or twin disc etc. the stock LS1 clutch master and release brg. work well for street and very lite track use. I ran the stock LS1 master for 25,000 miles in the Elky including some hard track use.It has not failed. I went to the Tick piece because it was better for the hard use I'm giving the car. My clutch,PP and flywheel is stock LS7 stuff. My Release brg. is the stock matching 98/02 GM part. I'm sure you already know there are some mods required to use these parts with the stock 68 1st gen clutch pedal, but they are not difficult or complex. By the way, I went over to your build page. It's been awhile since I had looked at your car. She is looking good. Don't let this one stump you. It is really not as bad as all that. But you do need to change out the rel brg and don't forget to add a remote bleeder before reinstalling the trans. Mike

andrewb70
01-29-2012, 02:27 PM
.....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


.....

What kind of fitting is on the end of that line?

Andrew

BuddyP
01-29-2012, 07:20 PM
Mike, I too and running a LS7 pp, disk and flywheel.

Andrew, I'll have to check that out. It's a pipe thread I believe but not sure of the size. Pretty sure it's not a AN.

andrewb70
01-29-2012, 07:45 PM
Mike, I too and running a LS7 pp, disk and flywheel.

Andrew, I'll have to check that out. It's a pipe thread I believe but not sure of the size. Pretty sure it's not a AN.

Do you have a better picture? It looks like it has a flared end. What material is the tube and how is it attached to the slave?

I really don't think that you will need to change out anything, but I need more info.

Andrew

Mike Holleman
01-30-2012, 07:18 AM
Well you have good clutch components, just the wrong release brg. The right one as far as stock is GM pn 15046288 or it's superseed. That would fix your issue and allow you to use other aftermarket masters made for Gen IVs. 98/02's If you are going to try to make a adapter to fit the 04 GTO RB, I'd get my hands on an 04 master to see the female fitting they used. 05/06 GTOs had a plastic quick connect at this connection point. To me it would be much easier to pull the trannie and swap out the RB. Good luck. Mike

andrewb70
01-30-2012, 08:01 AM
Well you have good clutch components, just the wrong release brg. The right one as far as stock is GM pn 15046288 or it's superseed. That would fix your issue and allow you to use other aftermarket masters made for Gen IVs. 98/02's If you are going to try to make a adapter to fit the 04 GTO RB, I'd get my hands on an 04 master to see the female fitting they used. 05/06 GTOs had a plastic quick connect at this connection point. To me it would be much easier to pull the trannie and swap out the RB. Good luck. Mike

As Mike said, if you swap over to the F-body TOB, then you can plug your line directly into it.

However, if you don't want to pull the transmission, I can suggest an alternative solution, but I need more info...

andrew

BuddyP
01-30-2012, 08:29 AM
Well I'd like to entertain other options first, I'll get a size on what I currenlty have and let you know.

BuddyP
01-30-2012, 09:01 AM
Ok, coming out of the tranny I'm pretty certain it is a 1/8 npt

Would like to know how much would be involved in using a Wilwood or similar clutch master. I would get 3an x 1/8 npt line fairly easily.

andrewb70
01-30-2012, 09:13 AM
Ok, coming out of the tranny I'm pretty certain it is a 1/8 npt

Would like to know how much would be involved in using a Wilwood or similar clutch master. I would get 3an x 1/8 npt line fairly easily.

Does the fitting slide freely over the tube or is the fitting welded to the tube?

What are you currently using for the MC?

Andrew

BuddyP
01-30-2012, 09:27 AM
Fitting slides freely. I bought a LS1 ('98-'02 camaro) master setup but can return or sell it if needed.

andrewb70
01-30-2012, 09:53 AM
Fitting slides freely. I bought a LS1 ('98-'02 camaro) master setup but can return or sell it if needed.

If the fitting slides over the tube then it is not NPT.

Here is what I would do. I would cut the tube and then put a 45 degree double flare on it with a standard 7/16" brake fitting on it. You can get that fitting at any automotive store. Then I would use an adapter, to convert it over to AN -3:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3AN-Male-Female-Inverted-Flare-7-16-24-Brake-Adapter-/360423084449?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%2 52BFICS%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D390307143615%26ps%3D54

Then use this fitting for the F-body MC:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-640281/?rtype=10

You'll have to use a small punch to knock out the pin to remove the stock hose. Now you have AN-3 on both ends of the connection and you can order whatever length hose you need to connect the sides. If you have a local industrial hydraulic hose store by you, they can make that line in 15 minutes for you.

Or buy pre-made assembled hose. Here is a 36" hose, but other lengths are available:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AER-FBPA0030-36/

Andrew

BuddyP
01-30-2012, 10:34 AM
Thanks Andrew!! That's exactly the fix I was looking for.

This just refreshed my memory. The fitting on the end of the line is a standard brake line bubble flare. Anyway I may be able to put an adaptor right on the existing fitting to adapt to 3 AN. Knowing about the fitting you posted at Summit helps be out greatly. I should be able to take it from here. I also have a 37 degree flare tool?

Thanks a bunch!!!!!

Now before I get further involved with this, is there any other type of master I should consider over the LS1 master that I have?

andrewb70
01-30-2012, 12:01 PM
.....

Now before I get further involved with this, is there any other type of master I should consider over the LS1 master that I have?

That depends on how you have mounted the MC. If you are using the ATS style bracket, then I don't see why a stock LS F-body MC won't work well. If you find that you need to push more volume than the LS f-body MC delivers, you can use the LT f-body MC which has a bigger (7/8' vs. 3/4") bore, with the same installation foot print. Using a bigger bore MC will result in more travel at the TOB at the expense of a stiffer pedal.

Andrew

BuddyP
01-30-2012, 01:40 PM
I have the style bracket your referring to only it was from DSE. At this time I would think I'd prefer a shorter pedal throw. Drove a Nova with TKO tranny and loved the short pedal throw but not sure what master it was setup with.

Mike Holleman
01-30-2012, 03:51 PM
Learn something new everyday. I had never seen the adapter from Russell, but I did make a note of it. Buddy. if later you want to upgrade your master look at Tick's piece. It uses a Tilton master modified to work with what you have plus has an adjustable shaft that gives you pedal height and travel adjustment and pushes way more fluid than the stock unit. You may have small mods for fitment but it has greatly inproved my shifting on both the Elky and my racecar. Mike

andrewb70
01-31-2012, 06:53 AM
Learn something new everyday. I had never seen the adapter from Russell, but I did make a note of it. Buddy. if later you want to upgrade your master look at Tick's piece. It uses a Tilton master modified to work with what you have plus has an adjustable shaft that gives you pedal height and travel adjustment and pushes way more fluid than the stock unit. You may have small mods for fitment but it has greatly inproved my shifting on both the Elky and my racecar. Mike

An alternative to the Tick is to check out various vendors that offer alternative firewall mounts that do not require a 4th gen f-body footprint for the MC mount. For instance, I have a Keisler (other companies make these as well) firewall mount that allows the use of a Wilwood Gurling style MC to be used. Originally the kit came with a .750" bore MC, but later I was able to swap to a .700" bore MC for about 50 bucks.

I am not saying that DSE mount is not a good option, I just prefer mounting systems that facilitate the use of commonly available MCs.

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo25.jpg

https://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo31.jpg

American Power Train makes a kit as well:

http://www.americanpowertrain.com/cart.htm#ecwid:category=146560&mode=product&product=300497

I believe that Hurst Driveline Conversions also has a mounting kit, but I can't find it on their website.

Andrew

diesel25lrs
04-18-2012, 05:58 AM
Mike,
Could you please fill me in on the stock clutch pedal mods for the stock 02 GM master Cylinder- I have the ATS angle bracket on there already-Do I need to modify the pedal istself? I read something you wrote about limiting the travel to 15/16"? I'm hooking it up this week.
Thanks,
Josh


Buddy, What clutch did you use? Disc and pressure. As long as it is not a race version or twin disc etc. the stock LS1 clutch master and release brg. work well for street and very lite track use. I ran the stock LS1 master for 25,000 miles in the Elky including some hard track use.It has not failed. I went to the Tick piece because it was better for the hard use I'm giving the car. My clutch,PP and flywheel is stock LS7 stuff. My Release brg. is the stock matching 98/02 GM part. I'm sure you already know there are some mods required to use these parts with the stock 68 1st gen clutch pedal, but they are not difficult or complex. By the way, I went over to your build page. It's been awhile since I had looked at your car. She is looking good. Don't let this one stump you. It is really not as bad as all that. But you do need to change out the rel brg and don't forget to add a remote bleeder before reinstalling the trans. Mike