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scogin918
01-17-2012, 11:40 AM
I seem to be having an issue with my front suspension. I have Global West Tubular uppers/lowers along with their coil-overs and #300 spring. The problem with the sway bear is that it was very difficult to install and now when I lift up on the the car the car doesn't go back down. When I push it back down you here bushings rubbing together. Could the sway bar limit/impede the suspension travel up and down like that? I've already been having trouble with the ride height. The coil over is adjusted all the way to the bottom but the the fender barely comes to the top of the tire.

67rally
01-17-2012, 12:24 PM
How tight did you bolt the end links on the sway bar, and did you do it at ride height? It should be just enough to squish the rubber bushings flush with the washers. Also, did you lube the bushing where it mounts to the subframe before installing?

UMI Tech
01-17-2012, 12:59 PM
With the sway bar end links disconnected, does the car sit properly? The bar shouldn't affect ride height at all.

Is it a QA1 coilover kit sold with Global West springs? 300's should work for that application...


ramey

neki67
01-17-2012, 02:59 PM
If the rubber/PU bushings the bar is supposed to sway in are too tight, the bar will not rotate freely. Take the end links off and see if you can rotate the bar by hand w.o. excessive force. PU bushings should more or less act as a bearing so less force required than with rubber bushings.

If the bushings are too tight then put washers under the bracket attachment pints so the brackets will not squeeze the bushings any more.

scogin918
01-17-2012, 05:07 PM
Thanks for the help. We are going to loosen the bolts to the end links and see if that helps. The bushings are of the impregnated poly variety. The GW control arms are the coil-over specific lowers with the QA1 shocks and springs.

exwestracer
01-17-2012, 07:29 PM
What did you mean by "difficult to install"? If the bar is bound up in the frame bushings, it will definitely hold the car up...

MrQuick
01-17-2012, 10:55 PM
What did you mean by "difficult to install"? If the bar is bound up in the frame bushings, it will definitely hold the car up...

im with ray. At ride height, disconnect the end links, rotate the sway bar, locate your center of rotation...should be about where your sway bar arm is level to the ground or close. Measure your distance between the LCA and the sway bar. Either make a new tube and replace the bolt or buy another kit with the right dimentions.

If you find that the bar is difficult to rotate. Lube it up better or see if you have the correct size.

scogin918
01-18-2012, 04:54 PM
Unhooked the sway bar this afternoon. Now the car rebounds when lifted up or pushed down. The ride height did not change, but I wasn't really expecting it to. I can move the sway bar inside the bushings mounted to the frame. It makes a little noise so I will grease those bushings, but I still don't know what to make of the end links.

UMI Tech
01-18-2012, 05:01 PM
Can you post some pics from various angles?

67rally
01-18-2012, 05:39 PM
Unhooked the sway bar this afternoon. Now the car rebounds when lifted up or pushed down. The ride height did not change, but I wasn't really expecting it to. I can move the sway bar inside the bushings mounted to the frame. It makes a little noise so I will grease those bushings, but I still don't know what to make of the end links.

The ride height won't change unless you drive it gently around the block or up and down the driveway a few times. It needs to settle. Then rotate the sway bar so it's level with the ground, measure the distance from the control arm to the sway bar and see if that's the same length as your end link. If not, cut it to fit. If its already too short, get a longer end link. Then tighten it down just enough to push the rubber bushing flush or slightly protruding past the washers.

scogin918
01-19-2012, 06:30 AM
I'll try to put up some good pics later today. Thanks for the help.

scogin918
01-20-2012, 07:52 AM
Here's some pics...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_5078-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_5080-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_5079-1.jpg

The bolt for the endlink gives me just enough threads to get started and tighten. Just getting the bolt started though is an adventure.

exwestracer
01-20-2012, 09:20 AM
Might help more having pictures with the end links installed. As mentioned, the bar arms should be close to level at ride height, but that won't give you much length for the end links! Still kind of tough to tell what's happening from your description...

Bryce
01-20-2012, 10:17 AM
Both end links do not have to be the same length. You should not have to preload the sway bar to attach the end links.

UMI Tech
01-20-2012, 10:34 AM
Hey scogin. Did you buy the coilovers, arms, bar, etc as a package or piece it together?

Are the springs too tall (i.e. should it have a 10" and has a 12")? You'd think the car should be slammed with the adjusters all the way down like that.

As a side note, your car looks awesome. Reminds me of Gottlieb's Big Red.

ramey

scogin918
01-20-2012, 11:26 AM
As far as the car being lowered, I would have thought the same thing. I originally bought the spring set-up. But with the adjustability in the rear, I wanted the same for the front. So I sold the control arms and bought the ones with the coil-overs. I received two sets of springs and installed the #300 with the nut all the way down and that's where it sits. For now it looks like the only option is to box out the lower control arm to make the mounting point lower vs a drop spindle. I'm trying to exhaust all other options before resorting to either one of those.

I'll put the endlinks back in and take some more pics.

Thanks for the nice words about the car. In times like these, that means a lot.

scogin918
01-20-2012, 12:44 PM
Here's pics with the sway bar installed. Much easier to put in this time. But still makes noise and still stays in place when you move it up and down.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_5086-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_5085-1.jpg

exwestracer
01-20-2012, 01:15 PM
I'm a little concerned with the distortion of the frame mount bushings. I know you said the bar moved up and down without being hooked up to the LCAs, but that looks like the bushings are bound up with the bolts tight. Loosen the frame mount bolts up a couple of turns and see if you still have the same problem.

300# springs are PLENTY soft for that location. You do still have some travel left, yes?

MrQuick
01-20-2012, 01:20 PM
Just asking but your engine is installed right? Everything as installed to be run? Oil... coolant...glass...interior?

Sway bar links could be 1-2" shorter.
Are you sure the springs are seated correctly in the upper frame pocket? Its easy to get those wrong.

Your Global west arms have Del-a-lums right?

How did the sway bar move with the end links removed. should be easy.

67rally
01-20-2012, 02:13 PM
I'm a little concerned with the distortion of the frame mount bushings.

x2.

scogin918
01-20-2012, 04:06 PM
Everything but the glass is on the car.

Yes on the Del-a-Lums

Sway bar moved with minimal effort once the end links were removed.

As far as the frame mount bushings, I'll loosen them up a couple of turns tomorrow. There is still some suspension travel. From here, I think loosening and greasing the frame mount bushings, possibly followed by shortening the endlinks. After that, my main concern will be making sure the car is at the correct ride height in the front. I'll double-check on the spring placement and I may go ahead and swap the springs out for the other set that I have. I just don't think that this is where it is supposed to be sitting with the jamb nuts all the down.

MrQuick
01-20-2012, 10:31 PM
at 300# I don't think so either. I hoping for a misplaced upper pocket.

scogin918
01-26-2012, 04:09 PM
Put the car on jack stands today and measured all over. The frame is level, the rear is level. The driver's side front body is 1/2" higher than the passenger's side. Aftermarket core support and driver's side fender.
As far as the spring goes, it is sitting nice and snug in the upper pocket in the subframe. Right now, the only real option is to take the lower control arms and cut out the bottom mounting plates and lower them. I just can't think of anything else to check. The only thing other thing is to swap the springs out with the QA1 11 250/350's I have.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_5096-1.jpg

JRouche
01-26-2012, 10:47 PM
Ok, I may be off track here but it looks like your sway bar end links are in bind? And not due to the length of the links but more so to the length of the bar or the mounting points on the lower arms. Shorten the links and it will get worse.

Might be just the pic but it looks like the link bushings are deformed due to the offset angle. The links should be pretty much vertical at ride height. They look like they are canted over pretty strong? The lower bushing looks like is being compressed on the outside and the upper bushing looks like its being compressed on the inside?

Im gonna assume this pic was at ride height? If so then that slight amount of bushing deflection WILL show up as added spring pressure overall. Just a thought... Are you positive you got the correct bar for the car and lower arms? JR

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/swaybar-1.jpg

exwestracer
01-27-2012, 08:37 AM
At this point, it looks like you need shorter springs. Normal competition rates for that car would be above 550lb. I'm guessing you've got to have about 4" of spring compression at ride height with those 300s.

How much shock travel do you have left at ride height? It shouldn't really be necessary to cut and drop the lower mount with the correct springs in the car.

scogin918
02-28-2012, 05:40 PM
Alright so I'm back to tackling this issue now that I have my brakes sorted out. Here are some pics of the two spring options I currently have. I just pulled the shorter one out and was going to see what the other one would do, but look at the difference in height. I'm hoping there is a spring rate difference but I'm not too sure.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_5219-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/02/IMG_5218-1.jpg

UMI Tech
02-28-2012, 05:49 PM
Any markings on the spring? QA1 screen prints a length and rate...

scogin918
02-28-2012, 05:52 PM
This is how the car sits with the shorter springs. I have the box for the taller springs and the say 250/350 GMP4. The only markings I can find on the other springs are the GWS-S501 you see in the picture.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/01/IMG_5078-1.jpg

David Pozzi
02-28-2012, 09:51 PM
Your end link sleeves should be shortened to around 2.25". With a ride height lower than stock, the sway bar ends are at an angle and tightening the end links very tight will want to raise the car.
QA1 coils are on the long side and I've read complaints on getting the car low enough. They are also too soft for performance handling but OK for a car with 15" wheels and BFG TA's. Just not "pro-touring ready".

I think Global West has coils in higher rates for the QA1 shocks, but I'm not sure how they work for ride height.
David

scogin918
03-02-2012, 03:58 AM
Swapped the springs out last night. The shorter springs were definitely stiffer. The longer springs provide the same ride height though. I also left the sway bar disconnected. I'm thinking of cutting a coil off of the longer spring.