2 inch versus 3 inch drop - 67 Camaro

[Leadfoot]

I am interested in finding some pics of a first gen camaro with a 2 inch drop and a 3 inch drop. I know the tire/wheel combo makes a difference in this, so consideration will be made with regards to what the pictured car has. Some of my concerns are clearance issues and driveability (comfort). Part of me wants a 3 inch drop, but since I will drive this car a lot, 2 inch seems to be the right call. Is a 3 inch drop (stock spindles) really that low anyway?

Intent is to use coils up front with tubular a arms, and leafs in the rear. Car will be SBC (302), 4 spd, 9 inch. I WILL participate in autocross should I happen upon an event. Otherwise I just want a great handling, fun car with a killer stance.

All opinions appreciated!

Jim

[67Soto]

Hi Jim,
I just went through the same dilemma with my 67 camaro project. I read and spoke to many knowledgeable folks who warned of a crappy ride with the 3" drop. I really wanted the stance of the 3" drop and did not want to cut coils and/or use blocks so...in the end I decided to go with the 3" hotchkis drop kit, with their tuned bilstein shocks. I went for a ride in the blue 69 they have and it rode surprisingly well, stiff but sporty. The ground clearance is definitely low but that is the look right? I have not installed them on my car yet but there is a picture of Carl Cassanova's 68 with the 3" drop on this site. I will post pics once I get to installing mine. Either way, good luck with your decision.

[TheBandit]

If you want to stick to coils + shock (as opposed to coilovers), for about the same cost of a set of Hotchkiss lowering springs, you can get a set of AFCO springs and spring adjusters. That will allow you to change the ride height without affecting the spring rate. The adjustment process isn't as simple as a coilover, but costs no more than time. The installation process takes more work becuase you will have to trim the adjusters. Look at the Project Blue Bomb Nova thread to see some pictures of the spring adjusters or see CarlC's old geocities website for pictures of the Landrum versions he installed.

[Hunter68]

do you have a link for those springs?

[evostilo]

those AFCO springs look like a great alternitive to coil overs any one have any expenience with these in a first gen camaro?

[Leadfoot]

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I was looking at Casanova's Camaro today, but could not find any info on the drop on the car. That is what I am really wanting, some pics of cars with drop info on the front and rear. I do like the Afco suggestion. Just a few adjustments and I will ultimately have it where it is going to stay. I kind of like the look with a little "squat" to it myself, and the Afcos give me that option.

I am going to try a mock up this weekend of the stance, and would really like to have some stock ground to fender lip measurements if anyone has them.

Thanks for the info all!!

Jim

[David Pozzi]

I'm not sure Carls car has the 3" drop.

[CarlC]

This same topic recently came up. Check here. https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?83691-Hotchkis-3-quot-drop-leaf-springs&highlight=carl

[TheBandit]

do you have a link for those springs?

Here is the spring. This is for a 600lb/in rate which is the same as the Hotchkiss springs. Many rates are available and there are several manufacturers that make 5" diameter springs like these.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20600/

Here is the adjustable spacer.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20191/

Here is a picture I stole from CarlC's website. This shows Landrum springs & adjustable spacers. I don't know if the Landrum spacers are available anymore.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

You can read more about those here if you scroll down a bit. Understand they are not completely drop in - you do have to cut a helix into the spacer so they seat properly in the Nova/Camaro frame.
http://www.geocities.com/casanoc/

I bought the AFCO 20191 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20191/) spacer with an AFCO 20600 5x9.5 600lb/in spring (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20600/), which mimics the Hotchkis 1907F spring rate but gives me adjustability. I am going to trim my AFCO adjusters a little to match the Hotchkis 2" drop springs 1907F free length of 12.5" while putting me in the center of the adjustment range. That will get me in the ballpark of a 2" drop and from there I can adjust as needed to fine tune. Adjusting these about a half inch will result in about an inch of ride height change due to the lever arm ration of the lower control arm. So if you wanted a 3" drop instead of a 2" drop with a 600lb/in spring, you would target a 12" free length. If you decide on a different spring rate, you would need a different free length to get the same ride height.

Two springs and two spacers cost about $180 - virtually the same cost as a pair of Hotchkis springs. In addition to ride height adjustment, another advantage to this setup is you can get a wide range of spring rates if you want a firmer or softer ride and associated handling.

Another tip I've read is to weld a stud to the top of the adjuster so you can attach it through the small inspection hole on the subframe. This should make assembly easier. ATS at one point sold the spacers with the helix cut and a stud installed, but I don't know if they still offer this.

[Leadfoot]

Thanks for the link Carl. I remember seeing that before, but could not seem to pull it up. One last question....how drastic, if any is the difference in the ride (soft vs hard) between the 2/1.5 drop and the 3/3 drop?

Thanks

[TheBandit]

The front spring rate is listed as the same, so unless you're riding on or frequently hitting the bumpstops (which you might be), the ride would be about the same up front. I don't know about the rears.

[CarlC]

Most who ride in the car can't believe the springs rates are as high as they are. It really is a cupcake most of the time. It certainly is not as cushy as the stock suspension, but it is easy to drive long distances with no problems.

[Hunter68]

hmm almost just seems as easy to just commit to springs, or go coil overs

[Lyndon]

I am in the middle of a similar decision with my 69. I had pretty much decided on hotchkis 3 inch drop springs with their bilstiens but then Mark at sc&c gave me the ins and outs on some of the suspension options for these cars. I know I want the 3 inch drop and nothing less, but of course I want the car to have a tolerable ride quality. Mark suggested the AFX tall spindles and here are the reasons he gave: The spindles have built in bumpsteer correction. They offer the best geometry correction (better than tall ball joints, better than guldstrand mod, better than tubular arms alone). They have a built in 1 inch drop which will give a 3 inch lowered car about 1.5 inches of supension travel vs. 1/2 inch with the hotchkis springs. (This alone is one of my biggest motivators since it might keep the car off the bumpstops all the time). Basically they seem to fix all the problems with the first gen. but they are NOT cheap. And to add to the expense, they only work with corvette C5 or C6 disc brakes. Those are not particularly cheap either. Especially for a person who would probably be quite satisfied with stock style discs anyway (me). I told him I wanted to use the spring adjusters also, but he said he tried them and they were a pain to use. Also they will only accept stock style narrow shocks (this means nothing adjustable), they were difficult to reach for adjustment. SPC lower control arms offer a system for ride height adjustment using removable spacers and offers 3.75 inches of ride height adjustment. But again, compared to the spring adjusters the are really expensive. I'm not made of money but since I live in Canada and have to pay huge shipping rates on everything, mistakes cost me more to correct than it does others. This combined with the fact that I know exactly what ride height I want, means that I'm better off having as much adjustment as possible in the parts I choose. That means adjustable shocks to get the best ride quality and some kind of ride height adjustment to get the stance I want. But man it looks expensive. I just wish I could get a ride in a car lowered with 3 inch hotchkis springs so I could know if all this expense is necessary for me.

[TheBandit]

Most who ride in the car can't believe the springs rates are as high as they are. It really is a cupcake most of the time. It certainly is not as cushy as the stock suspension, but it is easy to drive long distances with no problems.

Is that with Hotchkiss 600lb/in springs and their shocks?

[Hunter68]

so how tall are 2" drop springs and what are its spring rates? it doesnt say on summit or hotchkis's website

[jbcamaro68]

Thanks to everyone, all the comments have been good insight. I am for sure going with the AFCO adjusters, my main concern was spring rate. I know for sure the direction now, Thanks again for helping out a new guy. I'll post pics when complete.

Joey