67 GTO Front Suspension Advice

[67gtonut]

First let me say..... the knowledge on this forum is unreal.... I have been browsing for a few weeks, and have just been blown away reading and looking at the rides you guys have..... awesome stuff.....

I have also spent a little time on the phone with Marcus from SC&C ..... LOL..... I just need to buy his book, there is just no way to take in all those facts on a phone call......

So let me give you guys an idea of where I want to go with the car, and what I have done....

67 GTO Hardtop - #'s matching - I like to keep the vintage look, but modify to my tastes....

What I have done:

Aftermarket ( I forgot the brand ) Rear boxed Upper and Lower Control Arms
Factory type Rear 7/8" Rear Sway Bar
Bilstein Shocks - all 4
Hotchkis Springs - F&R
Stock Steering Box rebuilt to Fast Ratio
All new Tierod to Tirerod( Moog parts)
New Upper and Lower Front Control arm bushing ( Prothane )
Factory 1970 Style Single Piston Front Disc Brakes
1 1/8" Front Sway Bar off a WS6 TransAm

Of all the mods I have done, the 2 I am not happy with are the Rear sway bar.... I just dont like how the factory attaches the bar to the LCA's .....

The other is the Prothane front control arm bushings..... squeak like a mother when cold.... and to me... squeaking is binding.... so this does not instill confidence in that product.

My goals.... keep the vintage look, but make it fun to drive....

First thing is ..... I LOVE my 15" wheels and RWL tires.... I know it will limit me in how well I can make the car handle, but for now, I just dont want to put the 17" wheels on it.... might change in the future.....

2nd thing is.... I dont want to lower the car any further.... the Hotchkis springs have it at the height I want it....

Now if I havent bored you to tears.....

I understand the concept of the taller UBJ to correct the Camber curve....

1st question is...... Can you install a Longer UBJ in the stock UCA ? or do you need the additional adjustability of the aftermarket (SC&C) UCA to optimize the alignment specs..... I pretty much know the answer to this.... but I figured I would ask.....

After doing all the reading..... I am thinking that the SC&C Stage 1 ,
GM A body `64-`72 with high durometer rubber bushings and Howe PC series Xtra tall upper ball joints...... Is where I want to go as a 1st step.....

Thoughts? Comments? Alternatives?

I also want to replace the LCA's in the future, but like I said, dont want to lower the car any further, so I will need to make sure it is capable of the adjustment shims...... I know Marcus also has those....

Then it will be onto the sway bars..... Definitly will look at the rear bars that attach to the axle instead of the control arms....

Would like to hear opinions of suspension products for A-bodys that you guys like.... Ease of installation is key.... Bolt on and go is nice....

Once again...... Thank you in advance for any comments or advice....

Troy

[rockytopper]

I don't know if this helps but I have pretty much done as you have except I used the SC&C springs and front U & L arms with tall Howe joints. All I can say is the car is night and day compared to the stock setup. I believe handling improvements will be greatly reduced without up grading the tires which means going up in wheel size. I really like these wheels if they will fit your gto sense your interested in keeping a stock look. http://www.yearone.com/serverfiles/fbshopmain2.asp?pid=PRW179GUNS&c=0&e=0&hid=518AM12101&cat=5&trk=

[67gtonut]

I wont completely rule out going to 17's in the future..... but for now I love my Rally I's ....

The only reason I am not doing the Lower tall ball joints is the fact it lowers the car futher..... correct?

But I guess when I do the LCA's in the future I can get the correct shim to put under the springs to keep the ride height the same.....

[exwestracer]

If you are going to stick with 15" wheels, you can really use a LOT of camber gain geometry...possibly more than just the tall upper ball will give you.

2 things that will help with the front squeak: There is a special grease out there for urethane, and it WORKS. If you didn't get any, contact the Mfr. and see if they can hook you up with some. Also, did you find it hard to get the bolts back in the LCAs? If so, you may need to re-align the mount holes in the frame. When I built stock cars and mods, I always ran a LONG drill bit all the way through both mounts. If the holes were really bad I would hog them out and weld big washers on using all thread as an alignment tool. THis makes a HUGE difference when you convert to a stiffer or solid bushings. With rubber it really doesn't matter if the holes are perfect.

[67gtonut]

The Control Arm Bushing came with the grease from Prothane.... and I bought extra, just to try and prevent this....
Bolts went in with no issue..... It usually squeaks in the 1st 15min of driving.... and I only notice it going over 2 speed bumps within 5 min of my house...... then I never hear it the rest of the day..... Am I over-reacting on the noise?

[67gtonut]

What about this set-up?

http://scandc.com/new/node/679

SC&C Street-Comp L&H GM A-body `64-`72 adjustable arms w/greaseable racing bushings and L&H billet aluminum tall spindles with billet aluminum steering arms

Seems to do what I need it to do.... Does not lower car.... raises that upper pivot point much further then a tall upper ball joint ..... eliminates the bump steer issue......and it seems like all my disc brake parts will bolt right on....

Thoughts?

[shep]

If the only two issues you have are the rear sway bar and the noise why not address only those? I would look at global west delrin bushings upper and lower and a Hellwig adjustable swaybar that mounts the way you want it to.

[67gtonut]

True........

But I also do want to try and take the suspension to the next level.... and correcting the backwards camber curve is also what I would like to do.....

[exwestracer]

What about this set-up?

http://scandc.com/new/node/679

SC&C Street-Comp L&H GM A-body `64-`72 adjustable arms w/greaseable racing bushings and L&H billet aluminum tall spindles with billet aluminum steering arms

Seems to do what I need it to do.... Does not lower car.... raises that upper pivot point much further then a tall upper ball joint ..... eliminates the bump steer issue......and it seems like all my disc brake parts will bolt right on....

Thoughts?

You may have seen Marcus" posts here on the forums. He's a pretty sharp guy when it comes to how these components work together. I'd pick his brain about how much camber gain that setup will offer. Also be sure about wheel fitment with those 15s!

If the bushings only squawk a couple of times and the bolts went in smoothly, I'd get a tube of skin thickener and deal with it...:eek:

[67gtonut]

LOL..... skin thickener......

Yeah.... gonna give Marcus a call and discuss it....

[rockytopper]

Just upgrade the stereo it's another area that the OEM is lacking. This single upgrade will solve all kind of other technical short comings.

[67gtonut]

Just upgrade the stereo it's another area that the OEM is lacking. This single upgrade will solve all kind of other technical short comings.


Great..... we have entered comedy hour:hand:

[Hotchkis]

First let me say..... the knowledge on this forum is unreal.... I have been browsing for a few weeks, and have just been blown away reading and looking at the rides you guys have..... awesome stuff.....

I have also spent a little time on the phone with Marcus from SC&C ..... LOL..... I just need to buy his book, there is just no way to take in all those facts on a phone call......

So let me give you guys an idea of where I want to go with the car, and what I have done....

67 GTO Hardtop - #'s matching - I like to keep the vintage look, but modify to my tastes....

What I have done:

Aftermarket ( I forgot the brand ) Rear boxed Upper and Lower Control Arms
Factory type Rear 7/8" Rear Sway Bar
Bilstein Shocks - all 4
Hotchkis Springs - F&R
Stock Steering Box rebuilt to Fast Ratio
All new Tierod to Tirerod( Moog parts)
New Upper and Lower Front Control arm bushing ( Prothane )
Factory 1970 Style Single Piston Front Disc Brakes
1 1/8" Front Sway Bar off a WS6 TransAm

Of all the mods I have done, the 2 I am not happy with are the Rear sway bar.... I just dont like how the factory attaches the bar to the LCA's .....

The other is the Prothane front control arm bushings..... squeak like a mother when cold.... and to me... squeaking is binding.... so this does not instill confidence in that product.

My goals.... keep the vintage look, but make it fun to drive....

First thing is ..... I LOVE my 15" wheels and RWL tires.... I know it will limit me in how well I can make the car handle, but for now, I just dont want to put the 17" wheels on it.... might change in the future.....

2nd thing is.... I dont want to lower the car any further.... the Hotchkis springs have it at the height I want it....

Now if I havent bored you to tears.....

I understand the concept of the taller UBJ to correct the Camber curve....

1st question is...... Can you install a Longer UBJ in the stock UCA ? or do you need the additional adjustability of the aftermarket (SC&C) UCA to optimize the alignment specs..... I pretty much know the answer to this.... but I figured I would ask.....

After doing all the reading..... I am thinking that the SC&C Stage 1 ,
GM A body `64-`72 with high durometer rubber bushings and Howe PC series Xtra tall upper ball joints...... Is where I want to go as a 1st step.....

Thoughts? Comments? Alternatives?

I also want to replace the LCA's in the future, but like I said, dont want to lower the car any further, so I will need to make sure it is capable of the adjustment shims...... I know Marcus also has those....

Then it will be onto the sway bars..... Definitly will look at the rear bars that attach to the axle instead of the control arms....

Would like to hear opinions of suspension products for A-bodys that you guys like.... Ease of installation is key.... Bolt on and go is nice....

Once again...... Thank you in advance for any comments or advice....

Troy


Troy – Thanks for including Hotchkis (http://www.hotchkis.net) Suspension products on your GTO and we’re glad to hear that you like the stance!

Taller upper ball joints can be used on stock upper control arms with an improved camber curve. Although you can get the most improved strength and articulation as well as geometry and caster adjustment with aftermarket tubular control arms. Before using stock control arms make sure you check them for fatigue and damage.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://www.hotchkis.net/tall_upper_balljoint_af_body.html)

[CFster]

SPC arms, springs, AFX spindles, Currie rear arms, Hellwig bars and Varishocks on our '67 GTO. Check out my sig for pics. IMO, you need to change the geometry.

[67gtonut]

Yep..... talked to Marcus tonight......

Going to do the L&H Spindle set-up....... I am stoked. To totally fix the geometry of the suspension with this set-up..... it will change the car.....

Wont change my ride height....

Can still use 15" wheels....

and still leaves me open to 17" wheels and C5 brakes later on if I decide to do it....

and bolt-on installation...... Seems like a no-brainer...

[exwestracer]

Glad they will work for you.

[Bryce]

Yep..... talked to Marcus tonight......

Going to do the L&H Spindle set-up....... I am stoked. To totally fix the geometry of the suspension with this set-up..... it will change the car.....

Wont change my ride height....

Can still use 15" wheels....

and still leaves me open to 17" wheels and C5 brakes later on if I decide to do it....

and bolt-on installation...... Seems like a no-brainer...

Congrats! Sounds like a win win situation. I like Luke's spindle. I might endup running on of his on my custom suspension.