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fantasygoat
09-15-2011, 12:30 PM
I'm thinking of taking an old 30's hot rod and making it a corner carver by dumping the old frame and putting a new one under there that can handle.

What's the best car platform to steal the suspension from to do this? Some factors to consider:

- ease of transplant
- minimize customizations
- replacement parts cost
- parts availability
- ability to handle torque and horsepower

For example, I see a ton of Miatas at SOLO events, but it's tiny rear end would blow up under any sort of power.

Corvette seems like the way to go but I'm not sure how easy it will be to find a donor car.

Suggestions welcome!

dontlifttoshift
09-15-2011, 12:36 PM
The track width on anything new(er) is going to be too wide for most common 30's cars. Even the common camaro clip is too wide for most applications with the exceptions of pickup trucks and larger cars like Buicks and Pontiacs from that era.

DSE does a narrow clip with a 53.5" track width that would work under an early car, be prepared for a lot of work.

BulldawgMusclecars
09-15-2011, 12:37 PM
Most 30's cars are very narrow, and with their low slung fenders or a fenderless look there isn't anything modern that is a good retrofit in most of them. Anything with struts is pretty much out, if for no other reason than aesthetics The Mustang II is ok for the street rod crowd, but is marginal at best for real performance. Corvette stuff is far too wide. My suggestion? Check out this...I think its the best solution for a Pro Tour style vehicle with an early look:

http://www.factoryfive.com/hotrodhome.html

Motorcitydak
09-15-2011, 12:43 PM
Finding a car that has a completely removable frame and good suspension is going to be quite a challenge. 90's crown vic's come to mind because they are easy to get, powerful, full size and easily repaired. The biggest issue is just that they are not all that awesome in the suspension dept but I think that would be a pretty good base for you to start with

Edit: Googling crown vic frame brought up a few pics of other vehicles that have received a crown vic frame transplant

dontlifttoshift
09-15-2011, 12:45 PM
Bulldog, those are icky. They loosely resemble a 33 Ford....kinda.

Fenders do make it hard to package real tires as well. There are solutions, there always are, I will get back to this thread when I get home from Indy. I have lots of ideas.

A 37-39 chevy coupe would lend itself the best. Should be able to get 275's under the front of that with the afore mentioned narrow DSE clip and as much as you want in back depending on how much trunk you are willing to give up......the downside is the 112" wheelbase. That makes tight autocrosses a little tough. A 3 link and some ls power and it would rip.....I would love to build that car for someone

Donny

BulldawgMusclecars
09-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Finding a car that has a completely removable frame and good suspension is going to be quite a challenge. 90's crown vic's come to mind because they are easy to get, powerful, full size and easily repaired. The biggest issue is just that they are not all that awesome in the suspension dept but I think that would be a pretty good base for you to start with

The '03-up are actually pretty nice...bolt in crossmember (aluminum), rack and pinion, decent stock brakes....but again, its WIDE. Would work great for a '50s or newer full size car, though.

1969CamaroRS
09-15-2011, 04:09 PM
Bulldog, those are icky. They loosely resemble a 33 Ford....kinda.

Looks are ok, but 2100lbs with 50/50 weight distribution? Drop a modern Ford supercharged engine in with 550+ hp (or they mention Chevy small blocks, maybe a LS?), be a little rocket on rails:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

fantasygoat
09-15-2011, 05:12 PM
It's not that I wanted to throw a frame as-is under there, I'm thinking about transplanting the suspension to a new frame that fits underneath, or modifying the existing frame.

Does that make any difference?

As for the Factory Five, I don't care for the style.

Bryce
09-16-2011, 07:16 AM
Jeremy,

I suggest building your own suspension. I built my own for my falcon. Get some circle track builder pieces, figure out your geometry (let me know if you need help with that), build some jigs and weld up some a-arms. Determining a spindle to start with will be the hardest decision.

fantasygoat
09-16-2011, 07:19 AM
Yes, I was thinking along those lines, but if there's a front suspension I can graft in place and cut down on the amount of math and fabrication I have to do, and also increase the odds of finding a part for it if I break down away from home, I thought I'd ask the experts and see what they said.

I suppose if you're building the a-arms, the initial spindle could be just about anything.

BulldawgMusclecars
09-16-2011, 08:03 AM
The thing is, there isn't anything that will work as is...that style of car doesn't lend itself to anything modern. If you don't like Factory Five's body, their chassis should at least give you some ideas about building one.

fantasygoat
09-16-2011, 10:00 AM
I'm probably thick but I don't understand why a more modern suspension won't fit. I see lots of 30's cars with modern suspensions or subframes welded in.

Assume I would be completely replacing the existing frame.

BulldawgMusclecars
09-16-2011, 02:05 PM
All currently produced cars are unibodies...they don't have seperate frames...and nearly all performance models have a large strut/shock tower (go look under the hood of a late Mustang, or Camaro). The Corvette has a layout that is fairly easy to retrofit, but again, its extremely wide. They look too wide in '50s cars, unless narrowed, much less something as narrow as your average '30s car. Sure, there are lots of street rods out there with Mustang II based suspension (though with billet or stainless steel control arms in most cases- TCI, Heidts, Fatman, etc, etc), but unless you're talking late 30s there really aren't any other choices. What model car are you thinking of? That would make it easier to steer you in the right direction.

SS PUNISHER
09-16-2011, 09:25 PM
"For example, I see a ton of Miatas at SOLO events, but it's tiny rear end would blow up under any sort of power."


You can put an irs 8.8 in a miata..... : )

fantasygoat
09-17-2011, 03:54 AM
All currently produced cars are unibodies...they don't have seperate frames...

I'm still having trouble figuring out why that's a problem - wouldn't I just weld the mounts for the suspension to the new frame? I wouldn't be using any part of the donor car but the suspension components themselves.

The car in question is a 1936 Ford 5-window.

fantasygoat
09-17-2011, 03:56 AM
You can put an irs 8.8 in a miata..... : )

From what car?

NJSPEEDER
09-17-2011, 04:09 AM
From what car?

http://www.bossfrog.biz/Differential_Swap.html

It is a T-bird IRS swap.

-Tim

novaderrik
09-18-2011, 12:09 AM
2wd S 10 trucks are pretty narrow and use G body front suspension pieces, and the 7.5 rear end that's found in them would hold up pretty well in a 1500 pound car..

exwestracer
09-18-2011, 02:34 PM
A lot of the aftermarket rod suppliers (Heidts, Kugel, etc) make very well-designed suspension kits for your application. They are complete, weld-in systems that will save you a ton of effort in the long run. I'm not a big fan of a lot of the Jag/early Vette IRS setups for handling, but in the front I think the IFS kit is the way to go (They are not all Mustang II stuff).

JRouche
09-18-2011, 04:44 PM
http://www.heidts.com/openwheel_superide.html JR

JRouche
09-18-2011, 04:48 PM
I'm probably thick but I don't understand why a more modern suspension won't fit. I see lots of 30's cars with modern suspensions or subframes welded in.

Assume I would be completely replacing the existing frame.


Yes... JR

Motorcitydak
09-18-2011, 08:31 PM
If I were you Id keep the stock frame and put a new axle under with back with a custom 3 link and coilovers that you build yourself then get a front clip from AME of a similar place. Put that all together and you'll have a great chassis from probably around 4500. You do not seem nervous about the work involved to transplant a frame so this should not be bad either.

Any OEM frame you could pull out of a car will require a ton of work to make it work and the geometry will be far from ideal for your vehicle. What was put into a car like a crown vic was built with packaging and NVH coming first and handling probably pretty far down the list of importance. Something that handles well will be more expensive and every sports car I can think of will be unibody.

dontlifttoshift
09-19-2011, 10:13 AM
I'm still having trouble figuring out why that's a problem - wouldn't I just weld the mounts for the suspension to the new frame? I wouldn't be using any part of the donor car but the suspension components themselves.

The car in question is a 1936 Ford 5-window.

I am going to assume that you have very little experience with early cars and that you are running fenders, so I am not being a dik, just trying to help.

Common front suspensions available for 35-40 Fords (same for those years) run a track width of 56 1/2", which is stock mustang II. When you start getting low most guys go to narrow control arms which are 5/8" per side giving you a track width of 55". I won't get into the fact that a mustang II, while it CAN handle very while, is not a great off the shelf suspension. It is ,however, adequate for 99.9% of your average street rods.

So assuming our target track width is 55" we are looking at small cars. I honestly don't know what car would have a track width that is similar to that but know for a fact that it will not have a frame under it and it will be nowhere near the 112" wheelbase that a 35-40 ford rides on. At this point you will have to duplicate the suspension attachment points on to your existing or new chassis and then contened with any packaging issues that go along with it. Anything that runs a strut is out of the question just based on space so what ever you find will have to be double a-arm in design to even have a chance.

From here it's called hotrodding. Take a tape measure and go to dealerships and junkyards and look for stuff that is even close to fitting. Late model parts can be made to work but it WILL be a LOT of work to do so.

Bryce mentioned building you own stuff, check this out http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=551788 This guy built a tube chassis and all of his own suspension for a 36. He was able to solve packaging issues by not being locked into a factory design and ended up with a finished product that actually fits his car, not an adaptation of someone elses compromises.

Before asking anymore questions it would be helpful if you gave a little more information. Things like your intenended usage, intended drivetrain, fenders or not, etc.

I hope this helps

Donny

Sales-TCI-Eng
09-19-2011, 12:04 PM
I'm still having trouble figuring out why that's a problem - wouldn't I just weld the mounts for the suspension to the new frame? I wouldn't be using any part of the donor car but the suspension components themselves.

The car in question is a 1936 Ford 5-window.


The 35-40 frame is a great starting point but it is kinda long(112" wheelbase). If you're on a budget I would suggest boxing the complete frame and then add suspension to it. We have grafted our Torque Arm to one with minimal modifications to the center section. We also offer a custom IFS with geometry that is very similar to what we run on the Camaro, Mustang and P/T Nova clips.

Here is a '32 with our IFS under it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xty-5ovz2ms

Here are some pics of the car.
http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/some-more-pics-32-autocrossing-205154.html

-J

WVhotrod
09-19-2011, 09:39 PM
Bulldog had my idea about seeing if Factory Five would let him order a frame from their roadster.