Installing Tru Turn

[mdprovee]

So I purchased the ridetech Tru Turn system and am trying to install myself. We will see how that goes. I recieved my parts from Ridetech nicely wrapped. So I jacked the car up and got started. I was able to get the right side off last night, going to try and get the left Wednesday night. Plan is to get it put back together this weekend.

[davidk68]

Take lots of ggod pictures Mike, I think alot of people will be interested in your instal. Looks like a really nice system.

David

[Rod]

totally watching............:naughty:

[MrQuick]

looks good mike, can't wait to check out the new set up. Shop is always open for you.

say.. nice garage but wheres the Trophy room?

[darren@ridetech]

Just out of curiosity... What uppers, lowers and coilovers are you running?

[mdprovee]

Thanks guys...I plan on trying to take as many pictures and detail as I can remember to.

Going to try and get a few more things done tonight too. I have limited time to work on this.

Darren, I am running DSE uppers and lowers, with QA1 single adjustable coil overs, and DSE sway bar.

[creekwood08]

might be a stupid ? but is there anything that the tru turn wont work with? certain spindles or anything?

[darren@ridetech]

might be a stupid ? but is there anything that the tru turn wont work with? certain spindles or anything?

Oh, i'm sure there is. Might not work w/ DSE arms, sway bar and QA1's..... :) Looks like Mike is about to found out! I can't foresee any issues tho, the DSE uppers are designed to work w/ a tall spindle, so the ball joint angle should be ok.

Mike, one thing to check during installation is turning radius. With the TruTurn the steering stop contacts the front side of the ball joint plate. If the DSE arm is shaped much differently than our arm some modifications may need to be made to either increase or decrease turning radius.

[mdprovee]

Well it didn't work for me. I am running a 383 SBC with hooker super comp headers. The relocated inner tie rods hit my header on the passenger side. I would have to reroute the header tubes in order to use this system. Not sure if other headers will work or not.

Ridetech has been great help in trying to figure out a solution.

[BrianP]

Well... that sucks :hand:

[bret]

Yep...saw those pics last week when Darren showed them to me. We discussed trying to replace the oem style inner tie rod end with a heim end. That would move the tie rod shaft forward a bit, but I don't know how much or what that might do to the bumpsteer numbers. That is why I havent pulled the trigger on that yet.
There is always going to be some combination of components that will end up being incompatible. The variables of frame mounts, engine mounts, and header design can stack up to cause interference. We'll try to identify these cases and document then as they occur. If we can't accommodate some of these situations, at least we can make people aware so they can plan accordingly.

[j-rho]

Bret, any thought to selling the outer steering arms individually?

[bret]

Bret, any thought to selling the outer steering arms individually?

Obviously we could, but I don't know that they would do any good without the rest of the system. In fact, without the rest of the system the bumpsteer issues might actually be worse. The only purpose would be wheel clearance. I hesitate to offer components that serve no prupose unless integrated into a complete system...

[BrianP]

Bret, any thought to selling the outer steering arms individually?
They look like A-body steering arms to me.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/1964-72-Chevelle-Steering-Arms,25073.html

[MrQuick]

They look like A-body steering arms to me.

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/1964-72-Chevelle-Steering-Arms,25073.html

Yes they appear to be but these cannot be used on a stock F body steering system without the other components. Just wanted to put that out there.

Any news Mikey? Cut off wheel is warmed up.

[mdprovee]

Darren is looking into using a heim joint as the inside tie rod, which if we can bolt it to the draglink bracket, will buy me some room. Maybe dimple the headers a little, and grind the bolt head down a little, I think that will get me the room I need. Still checking, not giving up on it yet.

[MrQuick]

Darren is looking into using a heim joint as the inside tie rod, which if we can bolt it to the draglink bracket, will buy me some room. Maybe dimple the headers a little, and grind the bolt head down a little, I think that will get me the room I need. Still checking, not giving up on it yet.

Hi Mike, car is up on the rack and it looks like that is the best option, popped into my head as soon as I saw it. I will make a new shaft, add a heim and compare bump numbers before and after. I'll let Bret know as soon as I get them in. Ordered the parts last night so it maybe a week before I get it going?

Im with Frankie, them headers suck. LOL

[ccm399]

How much is the ackerman (SP?) going to change by moving the inner tie-rod forward? I would think not much just a thought.


*EDIT* So I just ran some numbers in PT suspension analyzer and it look like moving the inner tie rod 1/2" forward does not change the Ackerman too much all in all.

Chris

[mdprovee]

Well I have installed the kit....everything went together good. I am having my headers modified to clear the inner tie rod. You definately will need inner fender modifications to clear a 10" wheel like Ridetech has said. Another thing I forgot about is springs. When you have a dropped spindle, consider your springs. I had to get spacers for the springs on my coil overs to get a acceptable ride height. Once it is all put back together I will report back.

[Vicinity]

Obviously we could, but I don't know that they would do any good without the rest of the system. In fact, without the rest of the system the bumpsteer issues might actually be worse. The only purpose would be wheel clearance. I hesitate to offer components that serve no prupose unless integrated into a complete system...

You know, it's just what I need to fix my problem, if you'd be willing to sell me one, I could test it out. :)

[MrQuick]

Hi Mike,

How does it feel?

Back notes, Brian @ Dreamspeed was able to finish up the car.

Allen and I found that Dynatech headers fit kick ass and fits the Ridetech Tru Turn system with ZERO issues, plus having a 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" step is an added bonus. They are also designed to fit around the 670 boxes. The Dynatech stuff is built very well.

Maybe Mike can post some pictures.
pictured.... mikes old hookers, the new dynatech 32940191130125c and the fitment around the 670 Box

we were able to fit my 18x10 6.875 back space rims with 285/18's. I think a 6" back space would work great.

Vince @ msp Fabrication

[DirtShark]

Hi Mike,

How does it feel?

Back notes, Brian @ Dreamspeed was able to finish up the car.

Allen and I found that Dynatech headers fit kick ass and fits the Ridetech Tru Turn system with ZERO issues, plus having a 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" step is an added bonus. They are also designed to fit around the 670 boxes. The Dynatech stuff is built very well.

Maybe Mike can post some pictures.
pictured.... mikes old hookers, the new dynatech 32940191130125c and the fitment around the 670 Box

we were able to fit my 18x10 6.875 back space rims with 285/18's. I think a 6" back space would work great.

Vince @ msp Fabrication

Vince, what is the ground clearance like on the Dynatech's? I'm trying to figure out a set of headers for a 67 Camaro Chassisworks Subframe with power rack and SBC.

[Garymac69]

Vince,

Are you saying the 6.875 backspacing really worked? That is much, much more than what Ridetech recommends. I would think that the tires would rub bad at full lock and would severely limit turning radius. Is this a stock subframe?

I just installed the Ridetech TruTurn and complete front suspension system on my '69 and for the last 2 days have been measuring for new wheels. I borrowed an 18x10 with 5 7/8 backspacing and 275 tire. With the Ridetech recommended 5 3/4 backspacing, I do not see any way I could get an 18x10 with 275 tire on there. With a 3" drop, it would have severe rubbing of the fender!

Gary


Hi Mike,

How does it feel?

Back notes, Brian @ Dreamspeed was able to finish up the car.

Allen and I found that Dynatech headers fit kick ass and fits the Ridetech Tru Turn system with ZERO issues, plus having a 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" step is an added bonus. They are also designed to fit around the 670 boxes. The Dynatech stuff is built very well.

Maybe Mike can post some pictures.
pictured.... mikes old hookers, the new dynatech 32940191130125c and the fitment around the 670 Box

we were able to fit my 18x10 6.875 back space rims with 285/18's. I think a 6" back space would work great.

Vince @ msp Fabrication

[Bad94]

Hi Mike,

How does it feel?

Back notes, Brian @ Dreamspeed was able to finish up the car.

Allen and I found that Dynatech headers fit kick ass and fits the Ridetech Tru Turn system with ZERO issues, plus having a 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" step is an added bonus. They are also designed to fit around the 670 boxes. The Dynatech stuff is built very well.

Maybe Mike can post some pictures.
pictured.... mikes old hookers, the new dynatech 32940191130125c and the fitment around the 670 Box

we were able to fit my 18x10 6.875 back space rims with 285/18's. I think a 6" back space would work great.

Vince @ msp Fabrication


Can we see a side shot of the ground clearance the headers? Also what oilpan on on that car?

[Rileys68Camaro]

Gary, on the 48 Hour Camaro, and all others, you have to trim and reweld/rework the inner fender to get a 10" wide wheel in there. Must use their sway bar set up as well.

[mdprovee]

I have only driven around town once, I don't notice a big difference, but autocross starts in a few months. I will know more then.

The new Dynotech headers fit nicely with tons of room. I will try and get some pictures tomorrow from the side. I am just waiting for the tread on the front tires to get worn off, then I will look into getting wider wheels and tires. Just from looking at what i have, a 8" wheel, I believe I could get an inch wider on the inside, but not on the outside without rubbing, or alot of inner fender mods. I will try to go to a 9" wheel.

[MrQuick]

We didn't get to drive it with the 285's, We got put on another project and it was finished by the other guys. We did drop it all the way down and turned the wheel lock to lock. It wasn't too bad. Wish I had more time with it to experiment.

vince @ msp fabrication

Vince,

Are you saying the 6.875 backspacing really worked? That is much, much more than what Ridetech recommends. I would think that the tires would rub bad at full lock and would severely limit turning radius. Is this a stock subframe?

I just installed the Ridetech TruTurn and complete front suspension system on my '69 and for the last 2 days have been measuring for new wheels. I borrowed an 18x10 with 5 7/8 backspacing and 275 tire. With the Ridetech recommended 5 3/4 backspacing, I do not see any way I could get an 18x10 with 275 tire on there. With a 3" drop, it would have severe rubbing of the fender!

Gary

[zbugger]

The wheel/tire fitment kinda surprised us. It fit better than we thought it would. That size may rub the frame at full lock, but you're not going to be at full lock too often. I about crapped myself when I put the wheel on the car and it actually fit. And this is with a stock subframe with DSE uppers and lowers. A 275 on a 9" rim would be a good fit. I too wish we had more time to check it out and get a real determination on max size possibility.

[MrQuick]

The wheel/tire fitment kinda surprised us. It fit better than we thought it would. That size may rub the frame at full lock, but you're not going to be at full lock too often. I about CRAPPED MYSELF when I put the wheel on the car and it actually fit. A 275 on a 9" rim would be a good fit.

I knew it, you slob!@!@ with a tad more camber too.

[Huzzah!]

So there's a bit more work to get wider tires in the front than what I thought. Exactly how much work had to be done to fit some say 275s. ?

[MrQuick]

nail the back space....

[Huzzah!]

nail the back space....

I see that was already said. My mistake. Carry on gentlemen.

[mdprovee]

I will have to take picture tomorrow.

Vince, anytime you want my car back to investigate its yours. I will need that investigation for myself also.

[Bad94]

At RTTH's Bret wanted me to take the 48 Hour Camaro front wheels off and put them on my Nova, and Let me tell you, they fit, Rubbed at full lock and thats all. I even have my car really low.

After talking with Bret, the novas have a little bit more room then the camaro does.

I did drop 2sec off my tire with the 275's over the 225's that i had. With the 275's up front and 275's out back, i was able to steer with the throttle.

53117

[MrQuick]

I see that was already said. My mistake. Carry on gentlemen.

no worries, some things are worth repeteing and i don't mind typing as long as you don't mind reading. lol gentlemen.... y thank you.


I will have to take picture tomorrow.

Vince, anytime you want my car back to investigate its yours. I will need that investigation for myself also.

Thank you Mike, As soon as I find another shop i'll have to get you back in for a test and run.


At RTTH's Bret wanted me to take the 48 Hour Camaro front wheels off and put them on my Nova, and Let me tell you, they fit, Rubbed at full lock and thats all. I even have my car really low.

After talking with Bret, the novas have a little bit more room then the camaro does.

I did drop 2sec off my tire with the 275's over the 225's that i had. With the 275's up front and 275's out back, i was able to steer with the throttle.



do you recall the back space on that rim?

[Garymac69]

Those wheels on the front of the 48 hr Camaro are supposed to be 5 3/4" backspacing. That's why I was suprised at the amount of rubbing when I did my test with the 18x10 with 5 7/8". At a 3" drop, that 275 rubbed the bottom of the fender lip at around 70% turned, both left and right direction. I was prepared to do cutting on the inner fender, but not mods on the fender lip and risk damaging the new paint job. I really wanted 10's on the front, and I still think it may be possible with more backspacing. The car is on jack stands (I sold the old wheels) until I get new wheels, so I need to finalize the order for the new wheels very soon. It's looking like I will have to go with 9's to get a little more room.

Gary

[MrQuick]

Those wheels on the front of the 48 hr Camaro are supposed to be 5 3/4" backspacing. That's why I was suprised at the amount of rubbing when I did my test with the 18x10 with 5 7/8". At a 3" drop, that 275 rubbed the bottom of the fender lip at around 70% turned, both left and right direction. I was prepared to do cutting on the inner fender, but not mods on the fender lip and risk damaging the new paint job. I really wanted 10's on the front, and I still think it may be possible with more backspacing. The car is on jack stands (I sold the old wheels) until I get new wheels, so I need to finalize the order for the new wheels very soon. It's looking like I will have to go with 9's to get a little more room.

Gary

Hi Gary,

The thing with a 6" + back space is there is less outer rim to hit the lower rear fenderwell/fender lip. We have another car that we are running tons of Camber on and his rims hit big time. 5.5 BS. With the 6.875 BS rim and 2" wider the tire clears by 1". Never comes close to the wheel wells but does hit the frame at full crank turn.

Like I said as I find another shop i'll do more testing with this set up.

vince @ msp fabrication

[BrianP]

Hi,
Could you please post a picture of how much the Dynatech headers hang down below the subframe?

[mdprovee]

Sorry took so long for pictures.

Headers give great clearance for the Tru Turn system. They do hang below the subframe, about 1/2" on the drivers side, and about 1" on the passenger side. Nothing more than the Super Comp headers from before. They also clear the steering box with dimpling, and tons of space on the passenger side.

They also clears the pan which is the Champ road race pan, also no problems with the Tru Turn system and pan.

Ridetech was very helpful in dealing with me, and gave me great advance. I hope to start pushing it soon.

[anthonys 69]

Did you have any problems with the alignment. I have a 69 camaro stock sub frame and would like to put dse control arm and tru turn system. My vehicle will be a weekend cruise vehicle so id like the tires to last. Dse was not sure if I would have camber issues. Thanks..

[Bad94]

I have dse upper ans lower arms with the tru turn. I will have to look at my notes and see what im running.

[mdprovee]

If I remember correctly, I have .5 degrees camber, 5 degrees caster, and I am not sure on the toe. Nothing noted on the alingment sheet about being difficult.

I plan to go to a autocross on Feb 19, so we will see how it goes.

[mdprovee]

OK let me start by saying I am VERY NEW to autocrossing so these are beginners comments. Before I, like all early Camaros, had understeer. You could feel it when cornering, and had to regulate speed because of it.

Well yesterday was mt first autocross, and what a difference. First run I tried to go through learning the feel of the new system. Now I have oversteer to deal with, I had NO understeer. So second run, I lower rear tire pressure to get a better bite. I pushed it harder, and there was no understeer, just went where you point the wheels. I pushed so hard spun out at the end. Third time, I tried to just go clean and smooth, tried going faster. It was my fastest time.

Again, this system made a HUGE difference in the front end, it turns now instead of pushing. I would give this a big thumbs up, as long as you know about the header clearance.

Also Ridetech was great to work with, always had suggestion, answers, and very prompt. I will conside their rear suspension based on their customer support alone.

Thanks Vince too, as always you are a great help.

[MrQuick]

way to go mike, glad the system works and now the tuning begins. Always happy to help where I can.

[TT302Z28]

Glad to see positive feedback about a vendor and not always the negative from a guy who just joined to gripe.

Hmm...wait a second, it does seem to always be Ridetech everyone so positive about. It must have been those free tee shirts! It's a conspiracy!