Whats a normal steering angle?

[Motorcitydak]

Im setting up the front end of my car rite now and and curious what I should be looking for in my max steering angle? Im worried that my wheel will hit something at full lock but Im not sure how far full lock should be. Does 25 degrees sound about right? I turned my knuckles about as far as I could see them going and I measured how far the steering arm moved which was 3 inches and that was about 25 degrees. So, how am I doin here? Is that enough?

[absintheisfun]

To set/center your steering wheel, raise the front and take the wheels/tires off and disengage the outer tie rods. Get in the car and spin the wheel from lock to lock. If you turn it 7 full turns from far left to far right, 3.5 turns from either direction is where you want to center it.

From there (assuming you are doing this at home), put your wheels back on and set it on the ground. If you have power steering, start your car as it takes up slack easier. Turn the wheels one full turn in both directions and recenter it. This will get the camber reset after having it in the air.

As far as setting Camber, I don't have any advise for your--if you stand back and look at the car head on, you can make out your camber by comparing it to the rear wheels. It's not exact, but it'll get you close.

Toe is going to be a challenge too, but what you can do is "eyball" it as straight, and then get a tape measure and measure the front the space between the front of the tires and the space between the rear of the tires. Get them equal, and your toe will be neutral. I wouldn't take it to the track, but it should get you to an alignment shop where they have computers.

I don't know if that is what you were looking for or not, but if you align your toe, your steering angle is what it is and isn't really adjustable.

[astroracer]

Is this stock geometry? Where are the steering stops? Internal? External? Rack & Pinion? Re-circ gear? What are your jounce and rebound numbers? Minimum turn radius?
Maximum steer angles are generated by the components used, the amount of jounce and rebound and the required minimum turn radius. Going into full jounce at max steer may generate some unfriendly loads at the ball stud and tierod points. The ball studs do have a maximum recommended use angle. Max rebound is usually not worrysome as you will very rarely see that condition unless you live in Hazzard County.
If you can cycle the suspension to full jounce and do a lock to lock and not hit anything you are okay. If you hit something you will need to remember that when you are turning into steep driveways. Most of your daily driving will not see a full jounce/full steer condition. Keep as much steer angle as you can to keep the turn radius as small as possible. You will be happier in a parking lot.
Mark

[Bryce]

Im setting up the front end of my car rite now and and curious what I should be looking for in my max steering angle? Im worried that my wheel will hit something at full lock but Im not sure how far full lock should be. Does 25 degrees sound about right? I turned my knuckles about as far as I could see them going and I measured how far the steering arm moved which was 3 inches and that was about 25 degrees. So, how am I doin here? Is that enough?

If you have a 7.6" steering arm and the rack can translate 3" in both directions you would have a steering angle of 22.76 degress.

[Motorcitydak]

To the first two guys to reply, that all good information but I do not have any of those parts on my car yet. So far it has the unibody frame, a lower crossmember that I built with LCA mounts, UCA mounts on the frame rail as well as upper and lower control arms and knuckles (also front differential and CV shafts but that doesnt really matter here). I built a UCA last night, but a wheel on and turned it as far as I could. The lip of my 18x10 rim hit the edge of the UCA at around 25 degrees.

Bryce, it may have been slightly more than 3 inches but Im just curious if 25 degrees on a car with a 119 inch wheelbase(iirc) will be decent for parking lot stuff or if 15 point turns are in my future

This is what I have rite now

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1506-1.jpg

[Bryce]

i will do some calculations based on your Ackermann angle.

[astroracer]

Steve,
What rack are you using? You need to lay that in there to get an idea of available rack travel. Just "eyeballing" it doesn't count. If you have to you could downsize the tubing for those upper arms and gain some wheel clearance. Seems like a lot of mass up there when it's only held in by a 1/2" or 5/8th's rod end. Are you using torsion bars?
Mark

[Motorcitydak]

I do not have a rack yet, that will more than likely be a custom piece but I have not nailed down what I need for that yet. I plan to use coil overs that act on the LCA's. Also I believe the 1/2 inch rod ends will be plenty strong for the application.

Once I finished up the UCA I turned the knuckle as far as it would go then used a digital angle finder against the inner fender to see how far the WMS turned. Without the wheel on, the limiting factor was the CV shaft. Ill get a couple pics to show what I have going on

[Motorcitydak]

Ok, got a few shots of what I have going on.

The front turned to the extent of the CV, its just under 30 degrees

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1511-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1512-1.jpg

and with the wheel on

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1513-1.jpg

Where it hits

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1514-1.jpg

and the degree, this would be a little better with the brake rotor in place to push it the additional 1/4 inch out but I do not have one yet

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/08/DSCF1515-1.jpg

It looks like the only way I could improve it would be to move the rear mount forward and narrow the control arms

[Bryce]

I have not run any calcs yet, but I would guess you are good to go.

[silver69camaro]

On our products I shoot for 30 degrees on the outside tire. 25 or less on a a 119" wheelbase would be somewhat of a pain I think. 21.5 degrees wouldn't fly in my book.

[Bryce]

At 2.18 inches of rack travel you have an inside wheel angle of 21.5 degrees, and an outside of 19.1 degrees. This calculates out to a 26 feet turning radius.

If you had 3.5" of rack travel then you would have 38.5 and 30.2 degrees and a turning radius of 15 feet.

[Nessumsar]

On our products I shoot for 30 degrees on the outside tire. 25 or less on a a 119" wheelbase would be somewhat of a pain I think. 21.5 degrees wouldn't fly in my book.

This.

I had ~20* on my car before I ground down my steering stops, and you don't want that little. Took nearly 4 lanes to make a u-turn....

[Motorcitydak]

Ok, thanks a lot for your help guys. Ill go for 25 and see what I can do to get 30 but I am dead set on running those wheels/tires on the front. I mite have to slide the rear rod end forward in the mount and rebuild the back end of the control arm to allow more steering

I also didnt think about the outside tire being at a different angle. Hopefully my ackerman can come into play there and pull the outside tire farther than it pushes the inside one. I can turn the wheel the other way pretty far, until it hits the coil spring cup which will be removed

[TheBandit]

I had ~20* on my car before I ground down my steering stops, and you don't want that little. Took nearly 4 lanes to make a u-turn....

Was that with the stock steering? Any idea what the factory max/full-lock steering angle is on the 1st gen Camaro / 3rd gen Nova?

[Nessumsar]

That was with the steering arm spaced out ~1". I have no idea what the angle was stock.

It is much better now that the steering stops have been ground down, now the limiting factor is wheel lip and sway bar.

[TheBandit]

So you spaced the steering arms toward the center of the car, putting them closer to the stops and thereby reducing the max steering angle? *EDIT* Read your build thread and it indicates you shimmed the arms inward to get more wheel clearance. Assuming 5.5" length steering arms and 1" spacing, I calculate 10.5deg of lost steering angle so you were probably close to 30deg to begin with.