Air ride and drop spindles

[Foxchapeliron]

Have a suspension dilemma..... I have a 72 chevelle currently with stock a-arms but I have drastically lowered the coil springs to test if my 20" fronts and 22" rears would clear. They do. However, I am basically riding on the bumper blocks.

Now, to get a taller stance while driving vs the slammed stance when parked I am looking at Ride Tec's shock wave level two system for front and rear air ride. New a-arms, tracking bars, etc. What I am not understanding that they keep telling me is that I don't need drop spindles for their system. To keep the stance low I am not understanding how the sweet spot of the suspension is going to operate up front without dropping spindles and getting into the travel range of the suspension. I guess what I am struggling with is the mount points of the a-arms and the spindle total length will not change, so how do you not basically bottom their suspension range if you use stock spindles???

[JRouche]

Ill give a stab at this. Ok, you have your ride height that you want. Im assuming it is close to stock but you would like to drop the car while parked?

If so then the control arms have to be able to clear the frame for dropped right? Im not familiar with your front end. But it sounds like you are concerned that the AR control arms wont let you drop it to the weeds like you want when parked?

If you are able to get the lowered height that you want with the stock control arms and cut springs, even though its on the bumper blocks I wouldnt worry. The air ride arms and shockwaves will give you at least that and maybe more.

You will prolly want to remove the rubber blocks you have, or shorten them to really drop it down. But my experience with the shockwaves is they will allow more control arm drop (lowered car) than the stock control arms with the large rubber bumps.

I would keep some type of rubber block in place just to cushion the drop when you air down. Even though the shockwaves are stout I still like to have some rubber to take the load from control arm to frame.

And really!! This is only for a parked adjustment. For driving they still only have one setting just like all other springs for ride height. And they will be close to stock for the air ride.

But for dropping it in the weeds when parked I think you will get as much as you need..

With that. Call them (I know, you did). I do all the time. I always get a guy on the line fast and Im expecting its just another sales guy that doest know crap about car. Not so with air ride. Hell!!! They have the tech guys answer the phones. Who does that anymore!!! But you still have to be clear on exactly what you want to do. Confirm ride height and dropped height.

Give them ALL the info and they will give you an honest answer. Even if it sounds like they didnt put much thought into it. I guess that comes with a firm knowledge of their product which so far every guy on the phone there has.

One last thing. I interpreted your post as saying you tested the car with the cut springs and on the bump stops as your "in the weeds" parked height. If you want that height as your driving height you wont get it with the air ride shockwaves. Make it clear to them what you want to do. A dropped spindle is the only way you are gonna change the ride height. JR

[MonzaRacer]

One other possibility to get some lowering without new spindles is get a set of Howe tall lower ball joints from Markus at SC&C.
Not a super lowering unit but it does give like 1/2 to 5/8 in. I think.

[zbugger]

I think the Ride Tech Street Challenge kit already drops the car two inches. So you're already dropping the car from stock with that. I believe you can fine tune that height with the controller to get the driving height you want. When parked you can just dump it all the way down. I'm not sure if that lays frame or not, but it sure looks like it does.

[marolf101x]

Just bolting on the Ridetech front kit will drop two inches from stock height.
Adding dropped spindles to the kit will drop another two inches, for a total of 4 inches. At 4 inches below stock you become uncomfortably close to the end of suspension travel.

Our kits are all designed for 18-inch wheels (though we have a lot of customers who use larger wheels with no issues)

Please trust our guys. . .we've outfitted hundreds of A-Bodies with our suspensions, so we know what we are talking about.

[Foxchapeliron]

Well I have received two opposite comments from the ride tech crew upon further questions. Basically one is telling me you certainly don't need drop spindles for my 20" fronts to keep it low. The other guy tells me you ALWAYS use a drop spindle and the best set to purchase is the Ride Tech spindle that is about a 1.5" drop along with being 2" total length taller to align the tubular a arms better.

So what do I do???? I am convinced that the car will slam down with stock spindles when I park it and blow it down. What I am trying to achieve is being able to cruise at a very low height as well but not have the shock waves basically bottomed. The drop spindles just seem to make sense like the one tec told me, otherwise I am only dropping a couple inches and I have basically dropped around 4 now to achieve the stance I cruise with today. The issue is I have stock spindles, otherewise I think if I were using coils it would take a 1.5 inch lower coil spring and a 2" drop spindle to pull it off. The rear of the car becomes the issue if trying to do this on the cheap with coils. I will need to commit to driving it higher than I do today as the frame is just too close to the axle in the rear but I can then take the air down and slam it in the parking lot. Am I accurate or which tec do I listen to??

[bret]

The real problem is that a 20" wheel and tire combination is just too tall for that car. You will never get that car as low with a 20"/22" combination as you will with a set of 18's because the tires won't fit in the fenderwells.

This is how a 70-72 Chevelle will sit with an 18" wheel/tire combination - http://ridetechgarage.com/more/1970-chevelle-goodguys-2008-giveaway-car/

We typically use a spindle that, if used alone, would lower the ride height by about 2". We then combine it with a ShockWave and a tubular arm combination that has a ride height that is approx. 2" lower than "stock". This is theroretically 4" lower than stock. You can then deflate the car by another 2.5-3" [when parked]. But by that time those tall 20's in the front are hitting the inner fender hard. Also keep in mind that although you can raise and lower the car with the air suspension, the farther you get away from the intended ride height of the ShockWave the worse the ride quality and handling performance will get.

If you are completely married to the 20's you could use a standard height spindle and forgo that extra 2" of drop. The problem there is that our drop spindle also incorporates a taller balljoint to balljoint height that improves the handling dramatically. The end result is that those 20's you bought in order to "improve" the handling of your Chevelle will end up preventing that very accomplishment.

And we've not even gotten to the 22's on the rear...

From experience...a 245-40/18 on a 18x8 wheel works great on that car. It looks great, it performs great, and it won't hit anywhere. If you are careful you can get a 275-40/18 on a 18x10 wheel, but you'll see a couple rub marks on the innerwheelwell and framerail once in awhile. On the rear...275-40/18 on a 18x10 wheel is easy. I've seen some guys run as large a a 315 wide tire but I have not tried that yet.

[Foxchapeliron]

I really do appreciate us sorting out this dillema as I want the ride tech system but need to know it will work given the cost. Maybe this can help: My 20's currently don't rub at all with a fender lip height of exactly 25". The tires measure 26.75 OD, the tire is a Hancook 245/35zr20. I have about an inch of travel till I hit the rubber bumpers. This is the ride height i would like to "cruise lightly" at. Then if I am doing normal highway stuff I would raise another inch or so. The rear does not currently rub either but I only have an inch from the rubber bumpers there as well. Again, I would like to cruise lightly at this height, then raise up for highway. When I park it, I want to slam it the last inch from where it is today, maybe even shave the bumpers, to bottom it completely.

Again, this thing is all stock today with no drip spindle, just drastically modified coil springs but it does all clear. So to come to a conclusion are you still standing behind not using the ride tec drop spindle, just the stock spindle and your new A arms / shockwave or do I need the drop spindles. I certainly understand needing to keep the shock wave in the sweet spot of the travel for highway ride height. It sounds like if we get it to the sweet spot we will have the drop travel to get it to my light cruising height then slammed, is that correct? Do you need more info or measurements?

[darren@ridetech]

Your overall tire height is about 1" taller than what we normally use, so it will be about .5" closer to the inner fender fully deflated (the offset of the wheel can vary this a bit too due to the shape of the fender well). I have the same 25.75" tall tire on my personal 70 Chevelle. Fully deflated, the outer corner of my tire just misses the inner fender.

We normally use our spindles on the front of these cars. The main reason for this is because they are 2" taller (overall spindles height) than factory. This puts the raises the upper ball joint, lowering the roll center and increasing negative camber gain. This spindles also happens to have a 2" drop built into it. When using this spindle we use a longer ShockWave than normal to compensate for the 2" drop in the spindle. Otherwise you would loose travel on the compression from hitting the inner fender well.

So, weather you use the standard lenght ShockWave with a stock height spindle or a drop spindle with the longer shockwaves your ride height and drop will be the same.

Feel free to give me a call if you want to discuss this more. My direct # is 812-481-4706.

[Foxchapeliron]

Thanks Darren. So when I am fully dropped it sounds like I should end up just about touching the fender well or maybe touching. This would only be for the parking lot so no worries unless you think that is a problem.

Can you tell me the full travel range of the shock wave and what part of that range I need to be in for the sweet spot?

I wish to cruise at the lowered stance I have today that is basically bottoming out the stock suspension to the bumpers but I am still clearing fender well. I am dropped about 3 to 4 inches today and I don't rub. I wish to also be able to raise up a couple inches past this height as well to get better clearance when necessary. So three settings on the E3 controller: Slammed, up a couple inches for cruising, then one step higher for any special clearance situations.

[Foxchapeliron]

Hey Darren I think I confused your thread with one from Bret. If you look at his post to me you will see he is telling me the drop spindle and shock wave total a 4" drop. You are telling me they are negated with the taller spindle even though it is dropped. So which is it?

[bret]

Our RideTech "tall" spindle is taller at the balljoint connection. It also lowers the vehicle by 2" in comparison to an oem spindle. I think the "taller" term is confusing...it doesnt make the car taller, it raises the upper balljoint position to increase the camber gain. I think Darren and I are saying the same thing, just in a different way.

[marolf101x]

Let's try this with pictures:

Here you have the stock suspension (please note the distance between the tire and the inner fender well):
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

If you bolt on our Shockwave kit with a stock spindle it lowers it 2-inches (note I did not draw tubular arms, cause I'm lazy):
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Now, if you add a "tall" spindle (upper ball joint is higher than the stock unit, but it also has a 2-inch drop built in) you get this, which is too low:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

So to correct the problem we put a longer Shockwave in the kit which raises the ride height back to where it should be (not hitting the inner fender!):
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The main difference between the second image (stock spindle, short
Shockwave) and the last image (tall, drop spindle with long Shockwave) is that the upper control arm is pointing up in the last image. When the suspension compresses (like going through a turn) the tire in the last image will lean into the turn (which is desirable).

Ride height is the same, but suspension geometry is altered.

***Please Note the images are for illustration only. They are not dimensionally correct.***

Hope this clears it up a little.