Stainless threads gauling and seizing... New parts. wth

[LowBuckX]

What is it with Stainless parts understess? In the past 2 weeks while building my 3link I had a stainless bolt seize and sunday the double adjuster I was useing on my panhard seized and I used so much force trying to get it to turn it broke.. It was installed by hand no tight spots just nice movement.. Tryed to adjust it with some stress on it and it just seized.. The adjuster was a QA1 part so its not a quality issue... I didnt use lube because I will on final assembly.
Obviously the panhard is now scrap but Ive already started a better one.

A few years back we built a pig spit and the sprocket we made had a stainless spindle. The spit made 1 rotation a minute so speed wasnt an issue and that gauled and seized. All these parts where Stainless against 1018-1020 steel.....

What Am I missing...

[PARKERRS]

Anti-seize, I have had the gauling problem and this is the only remedy I've found. Even when only finger tightening or running the nut down the threads it happens to me. So I liberally coat all stainless fasteners with anti-sieze now and have no issues, even on pre-fit or mock up.

[parsonsj]

Stainless steel is a poor material for fasteners, and they are an even poorer choice for highly stressed components (such as lug nuts, head bolts, etc.). One should only use ss bolts and nuts in places where their corrosion resistance is the primary engineering critieria, such as exhaust systems and body panels.

Here's some more information from Fastenal:

Thread Galling
Thread galling is a common, yet seldom understood problem with threaded fasteners. Galling, often referred to as a cold-welding process, can occur when the surfaces of male and female threads are placed under heavy pressure. The frustrating aspect of fastener galling is that galled nuts and bolts may pass all required inspections (threads, material, mechanical, etc.), yet they still fail to function together.
Stainless steel fasteners are particularly susceptible to thread galling, although it also occurs in other alloys that self-generate an oxide surface film, such as aluminum and titanium. During the tightening of the fastener, pressure builds between the contacting thread surfaces and breaks down the protective oxide coatings. With the absence of the oxide coating, the metal high points of the threads are exposed to one another, which increases friction. The combination of these two events can generate enough heat to fuse and seize the nut and bolt together.
Minor galling may cause only slight damage to the thread surface and the installer may still be able to remove the fastener. However, in severe cases galling can completely weld the nut and bolt together and prevent removal of the fastener. If the tightening process is continued once galling begins, the fastener may be twisted off or have its threads stripped.
Unfortunately, even with an understanding of the mechanism of galling, little is known on how to successfully control it. However, galling can be minimized with the following measures:

Stainless steel prevailing torque locknuts are particularly susceptible to galling due to the friction caused during installation.
Thread lubrication is one of the most effective measures to decrease the potential for galling. The lubricant reduces friction, which is a key element in thread galling. Certain environments preclude the use of some lubricants (such as stainless steel fasteners used in food processing equipment). Also, the operator must be aware that the torque-tension relationship will be altered with the use of lubrication.
There are some outstanding PTFE based coatings that can be applied to stainless steel fasteners. They are able to drastically reduce the frictional coefficient. Fastenal has performed extensive research and testing and found a number of coatings that significantly reduce the galling potential. For further information on these coatings, contact the Fastenal Engineering and Design Support group.
Use coarse threads with a 2A-2B fit instead of fine threads. Coarse threads have a larger thread allowance and are more tolerant to abuse during handling.
Heat contributes significantly to thread galling. Fastener installation alone generates friction and therefore heat. An increase in speed during installation increases the friction (heat) between the threads. Lowering the wrench speed during installation and removal can help avoid galling.
Avoid prevailing torque locknuts. Prevailing torque locknuts function by adding resistance to the threads, which in turn creates friction and heat. If a prevailing torque locknut must be used, ensure a minimal amount of threads are protruding beyond the nut. The most common stainless steel galling issue occurs with nylon insert lock nuts. The added friction that the nylon insert produces between the mating threads increases the potential for galling significantly. As a precaution, Fastenal typically adds a wax coating to stainless steel nylon insert locknuts nuts to reduce the friction. Although wax is a good lubricant it is affected by heat and can dissipate over time.
Mating parts of the same alloy have a greater tendency to gall than those of dissimilar alloys. However, not all combinations of stainless steel act the same. For instance, a 400 series stainless steel nut can work well on a 316 series bolt, but this will cause a reduction in the overall corrosion resistance of the assembly.
A smoother surface texture will lead to less frictional resistance. Rolled threads usually offer smoother surfaces than cut threads. As previously mentioned, friction increases the possibility of galling.
Proper installation torque. If the fastener is over tightened, the threads can begin to yield which will induce friction between the mating surfaces.

jp

[LowBuckX]

Glad its not just me.. Ill just avoid Stainless in stressed locations for now on..

[BonzoHansen]

Anti-seize, I have had the gauling problem and this is the only remedy I've found. Even when only finger tightening or running the nut down the threads it happens to me. So I liberally coat all stainless fasteners with anti-sieze now and have no issues, even on pre-fit or mock up.

That happened to me when I was installing my rear sway bar. The u-clamps hotchkiss supplies are S/S. Damn thing galled and I was just turning it with my fingers. Live & learn.

[Bryce]

i use black oxide alloy steel SHCS for all my suspension parts. Then i use gun metal blueing for extra corrosion protection. However my car never sees any water.

[Bryce]

Always use oil or anti-seize during SS fastener installation.

[LowBuckX]

I avoid Anti-seize till the last moment.. The stuff is magic. youe get one little drop on your finger and ten minutes later

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/12/3358884218_896b92c716-1.jpg

[JRouche]

Funny, and you are RIGHT!

Ok, it wasnt included in my watts link build but I ruined a threaded tube insert on one of the bars I was making.

I had it all welded up nice, was just screwing in the rod end (chromoly not stainless) and just finger tight. Went to take it apart and oh crap!! It was stuck. Tried several times to get it to move in or out, penetrating oil, 24" wrench, everything cept heat. Didnt wanna ruin the rod end also. It was not coming apart.

What made it happen for me was a few things. One was both threads were cut, not rolled. The rod end threads were nice but the weld in tube end was some what rough. Then after welding the tube end on to cherry red it got REALLY dry.

So I had to cut off the tube end from the rod end. Scrapped one tube and two tube ends and time to order the tube ends.

I use anti-sieze for final assembly, but I didnt want the mess for test fitting. I learned my lesson. JR



I avoid Anti-seize till the last moment.. The stuff is magic. youe get one little drop on your finger and ten minutes later

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/12/3358884218_896b92c716-1.jpg

[69stang]

Stainless steel is a poor material for fasteners, and they are an even poorer choice for highly stressed components (such as lug nuts, head bolts, etc.). One should only use ss bolts and nuts in places where their corrosion resistance is the primary engineering critieria, such as exhaust systems and body panels.


X2 JP

Good find on the fastenal info. I learned about this several years ago when, at my last job, we used SS plating for armored vehicles and used a lot of SS hardware.


I avoid Anti-seize till the last moment.. The stuff is magic. youe get one little drop on your finger and ten minutes later

so true!!!

[Marcus SC&C]

Anti-seize, Anti-seize, Anti-seize, if you don`t like the stuff don`t use stainless fasteners. :) Use it any time a nut hits threads, prefit or final assembly doesn`t matter, the fastener can`t tell. 99% of stainless fasteners shouldn`t be used for suspension at all. We carry a small assortment for various applications made by ARP that are 17-4 precipitation hardnened to grade 8 equivalent strength. They hold up very well but still require anti-seize. No suspension part should be rotating on the fastener anyway. Heims and flex joints should have the pivot ball captive and be pivoting on the race,poly should be pivoting on around their inner sleeve and rubber bushings have captive inner sleeves also but deflect rather than rotating. If you anti-seize the threads and nothing rotates on the fastener it can`t gall. :) Mark SC&C

[LowBuckX]

I love anti seize its a magic thing like I said. I just cant figure how it makes it from a bolt to my elbow to my teeth in such a short time period..

[Kenova]

:evil: It's EVIL !!!

Ken

[Jasons72]

I just cant figure how it makes it from a bolt to my elbow to my teeth in such a short time period..

So True!!!

[JRouche]

I love anti seize its a magic thing like I said. I just cant figure how it makes it from a bolt to my elbow to my teeth in such a short time period..

Stop picking yer teeth with yer ellbow and that might solve the problem. I cant figure out why my underwear ends up silver!!!! No really, I dont scratch my butt while working Hahahaa!! Ok.... Maybe once!!! JR

[WS6]

I turned my balls silver once....


Love antiseize but man do I have to be careful with it. It is magic how it spreads

[PARKERRS]

You guys who have trouble with anti-sieze getting everywhere, here's a tip. Go to your local Caterpillar heavy equipment dealer, they have an anti-sieze which is copper based and/or gold in color. Comes in a can with a brush made into the lid, works great and doesn't get everywhere half as easy.

[JRouche]

You guys who have trouble with anti-sieze getting everywhere, here's a tip. Go to your local Caterpillar heavy equipment dealer, they have an anti-sieze which is copper based and/or gold in color. Comes in a can with a brush made into the lid, works great and doesn't get everywhere half as easy.

Great!! Now Im gonna look like a X-mas tree, a lil silver here, a lil gold there. Shove some lights up my nose and a cross on my head and put me in the living room!! Im set, save a lil money on a x-mas tree for more car parts!!!

Thanks for the advice. I love going to the CAT store. I buy all my suspension fasteners from them already. I should have looked into their anti-seize. If its good enough for CAT its good enough for me.... Now I gotta find some small lights that dont get too hot, OUCH... JR

[Bryce]

Different color anitseize has different uses. There are many types; copper, nickel, silver and more. Look up loctite anitseize and choose the correct one for the aplication.

[Twentyover]

You guys who have trouble with anti-sieze getting everywhere, here's a tip. Go to your local Caterpillar heavy equipment dealer, they have an anti-sieze which is copper based and/or gold in color. Comes in a can with a brush made into the lid, works great and doesn't get everywhere half as easy.


Copaslip is the darling of small English sports car maufacturers. It's used extensively on Rudge spline drive center lock wheels. Without a corosion mitigating antisieze, water gets into the splines, rusting the splines and creating a high wear condition. I've used it on spline drives and can attest to it's efficacy

http://www.molyslip.com/Products/Copaslip.html