L & H Kustoms Pro Billet Tall Aluminum Spindles

[L & H Kustoms]

L & H Kustoms is proud to announce our new Pro Billet™ Tall Spindles. Designed to fit the 64-72 A body, 67-69 F body, and 68-74 X body platforms, machined out of ultra strong, lightweight 6061 T6511 aircraft spec aluminum with an ultra strong billet spindle shaft machined from 4130 Chromoly steel. They come hard anodized black for the ultimate in corrosion protection. We offer 2 versions, 2” drop and stock height. They are designed to utilize either your factory 69-72 disc brakes components or in conjunction with our C5/C6 corvette disc brake conversion kit which includes billet aluminum hubs and billet aluminum caliper brackets. The tall spindle incorporates a raised upper ball joint to radically improve the vehicles handling characteristics by transforming the camber gain to improve handling. The Pro Billet™ Tall Spindle bolts directly in place of the OEM assembly to either factory or aftermarket tubular control arms, and with the use of hardened SAE660 bronze upper and lower ball joint inserts, any taper can be machined into the spindle.

Features include:

- Tall spindle improves negative camber gain under suspension load
- Machined from ultra lightweight, exceptionally strong 6061 T6511 aluminum
- Press-in hardened 304 Stainless ball joint inserts prevent wear and fatigue
- Revised bolt-on Pro Billet™ steering arm improves bump steer *coming soon
- Direct bolt-on spindle replacement for A-F-X body vehicles
- Available in 2” drop and stock height


Patent Pending

PROUDLY MADE IN THE USA

$750.00 per pair for the spindles
We are offering a group buy for all pro-touring.com members Please contact us for details

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0877-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0878-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/spindle1-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/DSCN1212_70021-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/DSCN1215_70024-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/billethubs-1.jpg

[mc84_zz4]

Wow, awesome mid-production pics, I just love to see that stuff.
Any chance you would be looking into G-body spindle production?
There is only 1 name in town for those.

[L & H Kustoms]

Wow, awesome mid-production pics, I just love to see that stuff.
Any chance you would be looking into G-body spindle production?
There is only 1 name in town for those.

Thanks I am working on a G-body spindle (as well as others) and should have it available later this year

[Samckitt]

Wow, awesome mid-production pics, I just love to see that stuff.
Any chance you would be looking into G-body spindle production?
There is only 1 name in town for those.

X2. I love seeing stuff getting machined.

What brake setup works on these? Drums?

[lh_kustoms]

X2. I love seeing stuff getting machined.

What brake setup works on these? Drums?

Thanks They are designed to utilize either your factory 69-72 disc brakes components or in conjunction with our C5/C6 corvette disc brake conversion kit which includes billet aluminum hubs and billet aluminum caliper brackets.

[Jarcaines]

Those look good, what kind of pricing are we looking at?

[nicks67camaro]

My questions would be......

1. Cost (w/ steering arms, hubs, and c5/c6 brackets)
2. Tire / Rim interference / any limits on the amount of backspace you can use?
3. Any road tests yet?
4. Availability (with steering arms, hubs, c5/c6 brackets

They look really really nice.

[L & H Kustoms]

My questions would be......

1. Cost (w/ steering arms, hubs, and c5/c6 brackets)
2. Tire / Rim interference / any limits on the amount of backspace you can use?
3. Any road tests yet?
4. Availability (with steering arms, hubs, c5/c6 brackets

They look really really nice.


Nick,
1.I am still trying to finalize the cost... I am working with my machine shop on quantity pricing so I can keep the cost as low as possible.
2. there is no limit on backspace on the Tall stock height spindle and on the 2" drop you run into issues beyond a 4" backspace
3. I have had a set on my 1970 chevelle for the last month and have put several thousand miles on them with no problems and my engineer has run several structural tests on them with no issues.
4. They will be in stock ready to ship the second week in November at the latest if not sooner.

[JohnUlaszek]

Sweet looking part.

Is the spindle pressed in?

What would you estimate the fatigue life of the aluminum in terms of miles?

[L & H Kustoms]

Sweet looking part.

What material and grade is the spindle, and is it pressed in?


John the actual spindle is 4130 Chromoly Steel and it is pressed in as well as retained by a lock nut just as an extra safety feature.

[nicks67camaro]

I'll keep checking for updates. Thansk for the response.

[XLexusTech]

Nice... Keep me posted on the price... any plans to sell a package with hubs stterring arms brakes ect?

[L & H Kustoms]

Nice... Keep me posted on the price... any plans to sell a package with hubs stterring arms brakes ect?

I hope to have pricing finalized next week and we have a complete package that will include hubs steering arms and brackets and hope to also have brake kits as well still working on that

[Jarcaines]

Are these going to be C5 hubs like the ATS spindles?

[mdprovee]

Do these have the same benefits as the ATS spindles?

[Eric Howell]

Looking forward to seeing something for the G body/ S10 application.

[L & H Kustoms]

Are these going to be C5 hubs like the ATS spindles?

No they are not C5 Hubs. Our Pro Billet Tall Spindle was designed to use factory disc brakes or Our billet hubs in conjuction with our billet caliper brackets to incorporate the use of C5/C6 corvette brakes as well as ony other manufacturer i.e. Baer,Kore3,Wilwood etc. who makes brake kits to use factory chevelle, camaro or nova spindles. The Benefit to our design is that it allows you to upgrade as money allows. You can gain the benefits of improved handling while using stock brakes and upgrade as you can afford. Our competitors Spindles require you to purchase the spindles brakes and larger wheels all at once which in these tought times is hard to afford. Our spindles offer the same improved geometry benefits as our competitors.

[Eric Howell]

I personally prefer serviceable bearing over divorced hubs.

[GaRys69]

With 17" wheels what backspacing can be used on both the std and dropped?

[TA219]

I cant wait to hear what the price is on this, competition = good for the consumer!

[L & H Kustoms]

With 17" wheels what backspacing can be used on both the std and dropped?

with 17x8" wheels you will be limited to about a 5-1/2" backspace on the non drop spindle and about on the 2" drop spindle backspace is limited to about 3-3/4"

[L & H Kustoms]

I cant wait to hear what the price is on this, competition = good for the consumer!

I am working very hard to finalize pricing I should have it figured out early this week. and yes competition is good for the consumer :)

[driftinblzr]

On the proposed G-body/S-Series spindles, is there any chance of making them so either a Blazer dual piston caliper setup or the C5 parts could be used? The Blazer DP calipers are a nice upgrade over the stock calipers without being too cost prohibitive.

In any event, you have an awesome product.

Later, Doug

[CRead01]

looks like a great product. what other platforms are you working on? any 2nd gen camaro spindles comin in the future?

[CarlC]

What type of structural tests has your engineer performed?

[L & H Kustoms]

On the proposed G-body/S-Series spindles, is there any chance of making them so either a Blazer dual piston caliper setup or the C5 parts could be used? The Blazer DP calipers are a nice upgrade over the stock calipers without being too cost prohibitive.

In any event, you have an awesome product.

Later, Doug

Doug on the G body spindle were making we are planning on making them work in conjunction with our C5/C6 hubs and brackets. I will look into possibly making brackets to adapt the blazer dp calipers. Thanks for your interest.

[L & H Kustoms]

looks like a great product. what other platforms are you working on? any 2nd gen camaro spindles comin in the future?

We are working on 65-70 mustang spindles as well as 2nd gen F body spindles and some mopar Items as well.

[L & H Kustoms]

What type of structural tests has your engineer performed?

Carl we are running stress and fatigue analysis as well as FEA and we are running it thru Solidworks simulation analysis software. I decided to add some extra strength to the uprights to extend the fatigue life as we are doubling what would be considered the input load for this spindle. I want to have the finest engineered spindle available and am working really hard to finalize everything and have these available for sale very soon.

[Bryce]

i would be interested in a 65 mustang/falcon spindle. With a shorter steering arm. This would solve everyones problem with after market rack and pinion kits. make sure the spindle is rear steer. i have a wilwood kit for my stock spindle and would like to keep that option.

[bochnak]

Curious on pricing....let us know!

[MarkM66]

It's about time!

Make them availible, and they'll sell like hot cakes. :1st:

[L & H Kustoms]

Ok I know everyone is wanting to know the price

$750 per pair for the spindles. I am still working on pricing for the hubs caliper brackets and steering arms.

I am offering a group purchase for Pro-Touring.com members save 10%
We will begin shipping these the week after SEMA Nov.9-13

[L & H Kustoms]

i would be interested in a 65 mustang/falcon spindle. With a shorter steering arm. This would solve everyones problem with after market rack and pinion kits. make sure the spindle is rear steer. i have a wilwood kit for my stock spindle and would like to keep that option.

We are working on the mustang spindle. It will be made to work with the factory steering as well as R&P steering. The steering arm will be a bolt on arm and we will be offering a stock length arm as well as a shorter arm for R&P

[Bryce]

We are working on the mustang spindle. It will be made to work with the factory steering as well as R&P steering. The steering arm will be a bolt on arm and we will be offering a stock length arm as well as a shorter arm for R&P


awesome, thats perfect. What is the weight savings? Are you thinking the geometry would be the same as stock.

[L & H Kustoms]

For those who would like some technical data about our spindles


Our recommended alignment specs are
Camber- 0.25-0.5 -
Caster- 4.0-5.5 +
Toe- 1/16" toe in

The upper ball joint is raised 1.5" over the stock spindle
the king ping inclination is 8 deg
the steering arm location points are in the stock location so that you may use factory parts and we are working on a revised geometry steering arm to correct the bumpsteer. We are tooling for the A body first and then we will be working on one for the X,F body
initial tests for the chevelle arm show bumpsteer to be reduced to fifty one thousands of an inch thru the travel from full droop to full compression. I am working at trying to reduce that further.
If using our spindle on an A body you must use a shorter upper A arm to prevent ball joint bind

Our spindle is machined from billet 6061 T6511 and they are made here in the USA Clackamas Oregon actually

[Jarcaines]

Luke, will C4-5 brakes bolt directly to your hubs? I was planning on getting the ATS spindles so I could run the KORE 3 ATS kit, would that kit bolt up to your hubs also?

Great looking product by the way, thanks for all the info!

[Kenova]

Just out of curiosity, is there a weight savings when compared to similar steel spindles? I realize it won't be a big deal when compared to the other features, just wondering.

Ken

[L & H Kustoms]

Luke, will C4-5 brakes bolt directly to your hubs? I was planning on getting the ATS spindles so I could run the KORE 3 ATS kit, would that kit bolt up to your hubs also?

Great looking product by the way, thanks for all the info!

Jarcaines thanks yes the C5/C6 brakes will bolt directly to our hubs and caliper brackets and yes the Kore3 kit AFX kit will work directly with our spindles, hubs and brackets.

[L & H Kustoms]

Just out of curiosity, is there a weight savings when compared to similar steel spindles? I realize it won't be a big deal when compared to the other features, just wondering.

Ken

A tall steel drop spindle weighs 9.5lbs and our spindle weighs 4.9lbs

[L & H Kustoms]

awesome, thats perfect. What is the weight savings? Are you thinking the geometry would be the same as stock.


The weight savings for our A,F,X body tall spindle weighs 4.9lbs and a tall steel spindle weighs 9.5lbs. The geometry will not be stock but cant give away to many details yet. i'm unsure of the weight savings on the mustang spindle yet. But I put up those numbers to give you a comparison

[ZZ427]

Luke , These are available now , yes ?

[GrabberGT]

i would be interested in a 65 mustang/falcon spindle. With a shorter steering arm. This would solve everyones problem with after market rack and pinion kits. make sure the spindle is rear steer. i have a wilwood kit for my stock spindle and would like to keep that option.


Sign me up for a set as well. Also running wilwood on stock spindles. My front wheels are 17X8 with 4" BS.

[Jarcaines]

Is there a price including hubs and caliper brackets yet?

[L & H Kustoms]

Luke , These are available now , yes ?

We will begin shipping these by the end of the 2nd week in Nov.

My machine shop is building fixtures to run production and we will begin end of next week. we are making 50 pairs of each. I will be in vegas for SEMA all week I will have a few sets with me if anyone would like to take a look at them firsthand.

[L & H Kustoms]

Is there a price including hubs and caliper brackets yet?

Clear anodized Hubs with bearings, seals, ARP studs and billet grease caps $325
Billet Caliper Brackets $120

If purchasing spindles hubs and brackets together Save $50

We are now taking orders

[L & H Kustoms]

Here are some pictures of our billet hubs. They will come hard anodized clear.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/billethubs-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/billethubs2-1.jpg

Here are some pics of our Tall non drop spindle.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/billethubs2-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/DSCN1338_69096-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/DSCN1341_69099-1.jpg

[L & H Kustoms]

Ok here some pics of our Pro Billet Tall non drop spindle. They will come anodized black as well. We begin production monday and they will begin shipping out Nov. 12

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0877-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0878-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0879-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_0880-1.jpg

[L & H Kustoms]

thought you like to see some install pics took some pics with stock brakes and will get some C6 brake pics after I get back from SEMA

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/100_1763-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/100_1766-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/100_1771-1.jpg

['70rs]

Looking great Luke! Best of luck with the sales. If you remember (from Lat-g) I have a 70 camaro so I can't jump on the wagon here. But I do like them.

How is the family doing these days?

[L & H Kustoms]

Looking great Luke! Best of luck with the sales. If you remember (from Lat-g) I have a 70 camaro so I can't jump on the wagon here. But I do like them.

How is the family doing these days?

Eric thanks the family is doing great spending the day with them today I leave tomorrow morning to go to SEMA gonna miss the fam
btw I am working on some spindles for the 2nd gen F body so you can jump on the wagon soon :-)

[quiksilvr]

How about a dropped spindle for c5/c6 suspensions. There are a lot of after market clips based of of the vette suspension that could use a dropped spindle. I would be all over it.:twothumbs

[L & H Kustoms]

We are now taking orders we will begin shipping orders on Friday.

[TitoJones]

We are now taking orders we will begin shipping orders on Friday.

So what was the final breaking point of the spindle during destructive testing? How much force did it take before it began to deform? At that force, how much deformity was there, and in which area? How much force did your press in inserts see before they came out of the spindle? What is the cycle life of the spindles in years/mileage?

Tyler

[L & H Kustoms]

So what was the final breaking point of the spindle during destructive testing? How much force did it take before it began to deform? At that force, how much deformity was there, and in which area? How much force did your press in inserts see before they came out of the spindle? What is the cycle life of the spindles in years/mileage?

Tyler

Tyler we have done our destructive testing and I can tell you that our newly designed ball joint insert which are threaded in and retained by a snap ring are solidly fixed in the spindle to prevent them from coming out and also to prevent them from coming loose and spinning in the upright are not coming out. as far as the cyclic fatigue they can withstand well over a million cycles at our input loads which are double what the normal load would be which is how its rated not in years/miles I am very curious as to how you came up with your "estimated fatigue life" which I know you state is 15yrs 225k miles. did you have these on a car for 15 yrs? did you put 225k miles of hard driving on them. what kind of driving did you do when you determined this. freeway driving driving, on a cobblestone road smooth or full of potholes I just find it funny that you can determine mileage based on cycle fatigue. Its based on the number of cycles not miles and time .and everyone drives there vehicles different. I can tell you that our spindles and designed to withstand our 4k lbs input load at 2g's force horizontal and vertical with a 1500lb ft rotational force and they are rated at over 1 million cycles at these loads being applied at the same time which actually wont happen. Please tell me how you can put that into years/miles, It doesnt work like that.

[TitoJones]

Tyler we have done our destructive testing and I can tell you that our newly designed ball joint insert which are threaded in and retained by a snap ring are solidly fixed in the spindle to prevent them from coming out and also to prevent them from coming loose and spinning in the upright are not coming out. as far as the cyclic fatigue they can withstand well over a million cycles at our input loads which are double what the normal load would be which is how its rated not in years/miles I am very curious as to how you came up with your "estimated fatigue life" which I know you state is 15yrs 225k miles. did you have these on a car for 15 yrs? did you put 225k miles of hard driving on them. what kind of driving did you do when you determined this. freeway driving driving, on a cobblestone road smooth or full of potholes I just find it funny that you can determine mileage based on cycle fatigue. Its based on the number of cycles not miles and time .and everyone drives there vehicles different. I can tell you that our spindles and designed to withstand our 4k lbs input load at 2g's force horizontal and vertical with a 1500lb ft rotational force and they are rated at over 1 million cycles at these loads being applied at the same time which actually wont happen. Please tell me how you can put that into years/miles, It doesnt work like that.

We did on track testing with slicks, consulted with GM, talked with the foundry that casts the C5/C6 Corvette upright, got design feedback from Mark Stielow, did heavy FEA in solidworks, and then after all that did multiple destructive test to the point of failure. Our spindle saw loads of over 24,000 lbs and not only did it hold, it didn't even deform a few thousandths of an inch. (that means you could hang seven 3,400 lb Camaros off the AFX spindle and it would smile and take it.)

The first test we did ripped our lower ball joint insert out from the forging before it saw even the slightest of loads; so we redesigned it, the materials, and the direction and method that it went in. (which was such a great design, you put in into your own product). Here is the first design that was threaded, and had 220,00 PSI spiral locks installed onto it and it STILL came out:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/11j64hv-1.jpg

To answer your question, the way we got to our cyclic load replacement recommendation is by being conservative. We took all our data, all GM's data, all the engineers, foundry's and solidworks data, and then went ultra conservative for liability reasons. I'm sure the AFX spindle can see loads that exceed what we recommend, we engineered it that way. I'm also sure it will see cycles that will exceed any billet machined counterpart; forgings will always be stronger and lighter. Could we have told people it would see 5 million load cycles? Sure we could have. Is that smart from a liability standpoint? Not even a little.

I know you think I'm attacking your product, but I'm not. I just want to make sure that you do the destructive testing you claim before you start selling these. I'd like to see a broken spindle, the load at which it broke, and the area/part that failed. Ours ended up breaking just past the 13 ton mark and it looked like this:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/2eey4n4-1.jpg

So after all said and done we have been used by Mark Stielow on his personal car, GM on SEMA show cars, Katech in house projects, Pure Vision on the z/28 Nova, and well over 600 other members rides on these message forums. We are established. We did our research. We did our homework. We have the hard figures and engineers to back it up. We have always been upfront and forthcoming with our products and we have made a name for ourselves by doing so. So answer my initial question, the loads it saw, the amount of deformity and the area that broke with pictures and I'll be out of your hair and give you a thumbs up for bringing a well developed, safe, product to the market. You don't want this to be you:
https://www.pro-touring.com//showthread.php?t=43264&highlight=spindle+failure
https://www.pro-touring.com//showthread.php?t=43219&highlight=spindle+failure

Tyler

[1in1969]

Tyler, my personal opinion is that you are not attacking L&H, esp now that you have sold your spindle company, I am glad that you "are staying in his hair" about this subject. I would think anyone that was doing/considering this type of thing would learn alot from your posts and esp the pics. Thanks for keeping safety first. Lou impressive that you are doing this, keep your chin up, we would all do well to listen to those who have gone before us, I am not saying you have to do what Tyler says, but I think it would be wise to make sure you are not offended and at least just take it in. Shawn

[TitoJones]

Tyler, my personal opinion is that you are not attacking L&H, esp now that you have sold your spindle company, I am glad that you "are staying in his hair" about this subject. I would think anyone that was doing/considering this type of thing would learn alot from your posts and esp the pics. Thanks for keeping safety first. Lou impressive that you are doing this, keep your chin up, we would all do well to listen to those who have gone before us, I am not saying you have to do what Tyler says, but I think it would be wise to make sure you are not offended and at least just take it in. Shawn

Well, L&H did take quite a bit from our AFX spindle program and implement it into their design; from the ball joint inserts to the 6061-T6 material, to the overall height, all taken directly from our spindle. We know why we did these engineering requirements; seems to me they just took our spec sheet and made it a billet version. Even the wording in their initial posting describing the spindle was taken from our website.


*snip* machined out of ultra strong, lightweight 6061 T6511 aircraft spec aluminum *snip*

The tall spindle incorporates a raised upper ball joint to radically improve the vehicles handling characteristics by transforming the camber gain to improve handling. The Pro Billet™ Tall Spindle bolts directly in place of the OEM assembly to either factory or aftermarket tubular control arms, and with the use of hardened SAE660 bronze upper and lower ball joint inserts, any taper can be machined into the spindle.

Our description:


*snip* the spindle is forged out of ultra strong, lightweight 6061 T6 aircraft spec aluminum and is available in 2 versions; stock and tall. The tall spindle radically improves the vehicles handling characteristics by transforming the camber gain, *snip*

with the use of hardened 7075 T6 aluminum upper and 4130 steel lower ball joint inserts, any taper can be machined into the spindle.

I know why our spindle is 1.4 inches taller than factory and not 1.5" or 2"; we did the physical geometry testing on actual frames with 4 different types of control arms, & 3 upper control arm attachment points. We played with quite a few steering arm attachment points to eliminate bumpsteer; We consulted with the best of the best, and always listened to feedback and design input from those who have come before us and learned the hard way how to make a better spindle.
I just want to make sure that all the standards we were being held to before we came to market are addressed before these make it onto someones vehicle that could end up costing L & H their business with a potential lawsuit.

Tyler

[RobSMalibu]

Tyler,

I find it interesting that your trying to HELP? If you trying to help try using PM and not advertising your junk you designed. LH is right that you did not answer at least one of his questions. How do you get milage from cycles? PLEASE post the math not the advertising paragraph you used. I have no doubt you worked hard on your product but the way you have gone about 'helping" LH sure looks like your trying to question their process without know LH's own internal processes. Tyler if you want to help I'm sure the engineering folks on the board including myself would like to see the math that supports the claims you have been making.

[FirstGenZq8]

mods, please don't lock this thread. this needs to stay open for as long as possible.

also, delete this post of mine since it offers nothing to this thread.

[Kenova]

Tyler,

I find it interesting that your trying to HELP? If you trying to help try using PM and not advertising your junk you designed. LH is right that you did not answer at least one of his questions. How do you get milage from cycles? PLEASE post the math not the advertising paragraph you used. I have no doubt you worked hard on your product but the way you have gone about 'helping" LH sure looks like your trying to question their process without know LH's own internal processes. Tyler if you want to help I'm sure the engineering folks on the board including myself would like to see the math that supports the claims you have been making.
I've never met Tyler, but I've been around here long enough to know that this is how he (and knowledgeable others) helps those of us without the knowledge and engineering expertise. Tyler will put your feet to the fire and ask the hard questions. If he did it privately, the rest of us wouldn't hear the question or the answer.
I'm sure Luke is just as intent on producing a safe product as Tyler has been in the past. When it comes to stuff like this, there is no sugar coating the questions.

Ken

[LONE*STAR]

ya no sugar coating questions considering engineered parts as vital to safety as a spindle, after all some of us drive our car pretty hard, and dont have the background to get past the marketing and bling. Thanks Tyler

[nvmyss]

Tyler is not trying to promote the AFX spindle(he no longer has a stake in ATS parts), hes' just trying to look out for another vendor.
I'd rather see the questions asked now than to see a product fail and a vendor in hot water or worse yet someone injured.

[L & H Kustoms]

Well, L&H did take quite a bit from our AFX spindle program and implement it into their design; from the ball joint inserts to the 6061-T6 material, to the overall height, all taken directly from our spindle. We know why we did these engineering requirements; seems to me they just took our spec sheet and made it a billet version.

Tyler

Tyler during our design we looked into using 6061 2024 and 7075 and 2024 wont hold up over time 7075 is obviously the strongest aluminum but the cost would endup putting my price point unreasonably high. 6061 T6 is very capable to the tasks and is affordable. Yes are spindle is very thick in some points compared to a steel spindle or the afx spindle for that matter but I WILL NOT SACRIFICE STRENGTH TO MAKE IT A LITTLE LIGHTER. I saw the afx spindle in the speedtech booth at SEMA for the first time ever. I have never measured your spindle or examined it ever so your claim that I copied your spec sheet is unsubstantial and outlandish. Have you measured the overall height of my spindle?

[L & H Kustoms]

Tyler,

I find it interesting that your trying to HELP? If you trying to help try using PM and not advertising your junk you designed.

Tyler I am also curious about this If you are so concerned about helping me how come you never came up to talk to me at the P-T.com dinner? called me ...my cell number 503-819-9043 is listed in all my signatures and on my website. You have never emailed or pm'd me and your trying to help? If you were trying to help you would have taken the professional avenues in dealing with this instead of you trying to call me out on a public forum. You who were publicly attacked earlier this year when you were going through some tough times which I am sure really bothered you I would think you wouldnt want to do this to someone else especially since I have never said anything but kind words about you and your company. I am not nor ever had any intention of stealing business away from ATS There was a need for an aluminum spindle that doesnt require running C5/C6 brakes and there is no other company who manufactures a "tall" spindle that isnt a drop spindle. I saw a void in the market and have developed a product to fill that void.



LH is right that you did not answer at least one of his questions. How do you get milage from cycles? PLEASE post the math not the advertising paragraph you used. I have no doubt you worked hard on your product but the way you have gone about 'helping" LH sure looks like your trying to question their process without know LH's own internal processes. Tyler if you want to help I'm sure the engineering folks on the board including myself would like to see the math that supports the claims you have been making.

Please answer my question about how you get time/mileage from cycles?

I am out of town until tomorrow afternoon and when I get back to my shop and main computer which has my testing data stored on it I will be happy to post it. I have a young baby and my memory isnt the greatest and I dont want to post what I think the numbers are. Once I can review my data so I post it accurately I will be happy to share it.

[L & H Kustoms]

I'm sure Luke is just as intent on producing a safe product as Tyler has been in the past.
Ken

I am very adamant about producing a very safe high quality product I have not nor ever will cut any corners no matter the cost.

[Mkelcy]

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Tyler</st1:place></st1:City> I am also curious about this If you are so concerned about helping me how come you never came up to talk to me at the P-T.com dinner? called me ...my cell number 503-819-9043 is listed in all my signatures and on my website. You have never emailed or pm'd me and your trying to help? If you were trying to help you would have taken the professional avenues in dealing with this instead of you trying to call me out on a public forum. You who were publicly attacked earlier this year when you were going through some tough times which I am sure really bothered you I would think you wouldnt want to do this to someone else especially since I have never said anything but kind words about you and your company.
I don't think <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Tyler</st1:place></st1:City> is trying to help you, nor do I think he's trying to hurt you. Frankly, whether he's trying to help or hurt you doesn't much interest me. He is, in his own (I'll admit) somewhat confrontational manner, trying to verify what engineering testing has been done in the development of your spindle in order to "help" end users who may be on this board. If he does all of this in private and then decides your process has been inadequate, what does he do then, post a warning on the board? Assuming all of the test data is available and shows acceptable results, I think airing this in a public manner is, in the end, the best way to do it for us and for you.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
You've said you did destructive testing, as a result, you should be able to answer <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Tyler</st1:City></st1:place>'s question: "I'd like to see a broken spindle, the load at which it broke, and the area/part that failed." You indicate you will post the data, that's good.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I am not nor ever had any intention of stealing business away from ATS There was a need for an aluminum spindle that doesnt require running C5/C6 brakes and there is no other company who manufactures a "tall" spindle that isnt a drop spindle. I saw a void in the market and have developed a product to fill that void.
As a potential customer, I don't know or care whether you copied the ATS spindle. I can easily imagine that independent engineers solving the same problem (spindle design) and starting with the same general parameters (first generation Camaro front suspension architecture) could end up with the same general solution. I could also see the second group starting with the first group's solution and adapting it to a new use. Either way, I'm not sure I care IF the second part is well engineered and safe. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
This reminds me a bit of the flame wars that occurred when the Speed Tech control arms first came out and Speed Tech was accused of copying DSE and GW arms. Now they're a popular alternative to DSE and GW and no one cares how they were developed. While your competitive part might affect <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Tyler</st1:place></st1:City>'s finances (he could have a residual interest in his spindles), I don't think that's motivating his questions and even if it is, ultimately people will buy your part depending on their needs and your price point. If you've saved a lot of money by piggy backing on <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Tyler</st1:place></st1:City>'s development process, that's between you and him.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

Please answer my question about how you get time/mileage from cycles?
This strikes me as a red herring - who cares?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

I am out of town until tomorrow afternoon and when I get back to my shop and main computer which has my testing data stored on it I will be happy to post it. I have a young baby and my memory isnt the greatest and I dont want to post what I think the numbers are. Once I can review my data so I post it accurately I will be happy to share it.
I look forward to this and to the review of your data that will be done by the professional engineers on this board. <o:p></o:p>

[TitoJones]

Tyler,

I find it interesting that your trying to HELP? If you trying to help try using PM and not advertising your junk you designed. LH is right that you did not answer at least one of his questions. How do you get milage from cycles? PLEASE post the math not the advertising paragraph you used. I have no doubt you worked hard on your product but the way you have gone about 'helping" LH sure looks like your trying to question their process without know LH's own internal processes. Tyler if you want to help I'm sure the engineering folks on the board including myself would like to see the math that supports the claims you have been making.

Start reading.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106839&highlight=spindle+tensile

I got lit on fire on 5 different message forums when I started making my spindle. We were asked every question I'm asking Luke. We backed it up with engineering, & technical data. We always have. We never run away and shift focus to something else. You ask me a tough question, I'll give you the answer. If I don't know the answer I'll find it. If I have to send my engineering team in here to satisfy a math question, I'll do it. But don't think that I'm going to let this issue slide. You want to make a new product out of aluminum? Test the living hell out of it, especially when we have seen failures from bigger names than L&H in our segment.

I'll let the 'junk' comment slide for now since you're obviously so new here you don't have a clue what I've made or accomplished.

Carry on.


Tyler

[TitoJones]

Tyler during our design we looked into using 6061 2024 and 7075 and 2024 wont hold up over time 7075 is obviously the strongest aluminum but the cost would endup putting my price point unreasonably high. 6061 T6 is very capable to the tasks and is affordable. Yes are spindle is very thick in some points compared to a steel spindle or the afx spindle for that matter but I WILL NOT SACRIFICE STRENGTH TO MAKE IT A LITTLE LIGHTER. I saw the afx spindle in the speedtech booth at SEMA for the first time ever. I have never measured your spindle or examined it ever so your claim that I copied your spec sheet is unsubstantial and outlandish. Have you measured the overall height of my spindle?

You don't need to have a spindle in hand to get my specs. We've posted about them for 4 years now, even put up .pdf of the spindle drawing with measurements. We posted geometry graphs that details every test we ever did. All you would need to do is search these forums. It's obvious where you took your design ques from, and after nearly copying our descriptions verbatim and changing the materials it's clear you look at our company as a reference on how to make a great aluminum spindle. I'm flattered, truly I am. I don't own ATS, so this is no longer about me vs you. It is now about you vs data, and unfortunately for you I'm the local a$$hole that has to get flamed for requesting it.

I'm sending in my engineer and another engineer friend of mine to settle your cyclic question in great technical-over-my-head-engineering jargon. They might even have more questions for you that I haven't even thought of yet, so get your thinking caps ready.

I think I spend too much time at Corner-Carvers. I wouldn't even be questioned for asking these questions there.

Tyler

[Twentyover]

Please answer my question about how you get time/mileage from cycles?



This really isn't that tough to do. I can't speak for how the value was generated by ATS, but I can tell you how it was done at Freightliner back in the late 70's.

Instrmented vehicles were run over road miles and the frequency and magnitude of strains found in various components were recorded (in those days, on strip chart datalogers.) You could see through the primative data acq how often a displacement occurred, and a similiarly instrumented component in the lab could have stress vs strain curves plotted if the geometry prevented easy calculation of diplacement (remember at this time only aircraft, car based OEMs, the guv'ment, and ship manufacturers had CAD) so it was relatively easy to correlate frequency of a stress to miles driven.

The vehicle was sent to (IIRC) the Bendix test track, and surfaces and obstacles driven over surfaces that generated similiar displacement. By driving over 500 ft of Belgian Blocks at 10 MPH we might emulate the sane product of magnitude and cycles a given component would see in 500 miles of service in the alleys of a city for a trash hauler, for instance. They lab guys were able to correlate mileage that components failed at Bendix vs in service(like a system or part would typically fail at 100 miles at Bendix, but typically last 10,000 miles in service.)

How would a small place know what to test to? The OEM's publish the test parameters as a performance and/or durability standard. Remember there are no car manufacturer's today- there are car companies that design envelopes and outsource a large number of black box and gray box components and subassemblies to Tier 1 suppliers, and then assemble the parts and assem,blies into cars and market them. The Tier 1's need to know how sturdy their part has to be, and usually run performance and durability tests in house and provide that information to the OEM as part of the part PPAP.



And I'm not the Engineer friend that Tyler was refering to.

[L & H Kustoms]

So everyone who has been asking about our destructive testing. Here are some photos from one of our destructive tests
here it is as follows our spindle started to deform at just over 11 tons
heres the start of deformation at just over 11 tons
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/100_1974-1.jpg
here it is at 13 tons
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/100_1978-1.jpg
here it is at 15 tons
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/100_1981-1.jpg
here is what happened when we maxed out the press at 20 tons
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/100_1987-1.jpg
At 20 tons I still can not break the aluminum upright
here are some photos of the damage
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/100_1994-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/100_1995-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/100_1992-1.jpg
What this shows is that even with 20 tons of force the spindle did not break nor did the spindle pin come out. Our Pro Billet spindles are well up to the task of being a competitive product in the marketplace.

Tyler we have done our homework and I understand you wanting to make sure that these spindles are safe and I am sorry if you feel like I am attacking you about the miles in terms of cycles. My point was that I spoke with my engineer and he explained to me that the fatigue life is in terms of cycles not miles/time I asked you this because I personally am curious how you came up with that Im not an engineer so I am wondering not trying to stir the pot or create doubt in you or the afx spindle which is a great product that you developed. Thanks for being the pioneer in the aftermarket aluminum spindle market.

[L & H Kustoms]

This really isn't that tough to do. I can't speak for how the value was generated by ATS, but I can tell you how it was done at Freightliner back in the late 70's.

Instrmented vehicles were run over road miles and the frequency and magnitude of strains found in various components were recorded (in those days, on strip chart datalogers.) You could see through the primative data acq how often a displacement occurred, and a similiarly instrumented component in the lab could have stress vs strain curves plotted if the geometry prevented easy calculation of diplacement (remember at this time only aircraft, car based OEMs, the guv'ment, and ship manufacturers had CAD) so it was relatively easy to correlate frequency of a stress to miles driven.

The vehicle was sent to (IIRC) the Bendix test track, and surfaces and obstacles driven over surfaces that generated similiar displacement. By driving over 500 ft of Belgian Blocks at 10 MPH we might emulate the sane product of magnitude and cycles a given component would see in 500 miles of service in the alleys of a city for a trash hauler, for instance. They lab guys were able to correlate mileage that components failed at Bendix vs in service(like a system or part would typically fail at 100 miles at Bendix, but typically last 10,000 miles in service.)

How would a small place know what to test to? The OEM's publish the test parameters as a performance and/or durability standard. Remember there are no car manufacturer's today- there are car companies that design envelopes and outsource a large number of black box and gray box components and subassemblies to Tier 1 suppliers, and then assemble the parts and assem,blies into cars and market them. The Tier 1's need to know how sturdy their part has to be, and usually run performance and durability tests in house and provide that information to the OEM as part of the part PPAP.

Greg thanks for explaining that

[TitoJones]

AWESOME!!!

That's what I'm talking about! That is the way one brings the tech. I applaud your testing methods and documentation of them.

I have no further questions your honor, the prosecution rests.

Tyler

[Mkelcy]

AWESOME!!!

That's what I'm talking about! That is the way one brings the tech. I applaud your testing methods and documentation of them.

I have no further questions your honor, the prosecution rests.

Tyler

Great!

Luke, I think this thread has turned into a powerful marketing tool. I know I took a great deal of comfort from the 20 ton pictures.

[67 ls1 vert]

Nice fingernails Luke.


J/K, look like nice pieces.



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/11/spindle5-1.jpg

[ZZ427]

pictures are worth a thousand words

[JohnUlaszek]

Since we are having an internet design review -- I will throw a couple ideas out there.

The boundary conditions of the static testing don't appear to accurately represent the installed condition. The spindle appears to be fully constrained by the fixture, whereas the installed condition would have the spindle acting as the constraint with the ball joints providing degrees of freedom not present in this test -- this is not to say the test is invalid, but one must be careful what conclusions are being drawn and clear what you are testing for. Which aspect of your design are you validating with this test?

Also, did you perform the static testing in the opposite direction as well? The results may be similar, but I wouldn't want to be surprised by this.

While ultimate testing is important, the geometry of the aluminum is critical with respect to fatigue, and looking at this design it "appears" there is less cross section near the lower ball joint than at the top -- the lower ball joint sees the highest loading. Look at the difference between upper and lower control arm design.

Any thoughts on galvanic corrosion?

Another interesting data point could come from performing the same static test on the OEM forged steel spindle and seeing how yours compares.

I applaud your determination to bring a quality product to market and listening to the input of those that have come before you.

[Derek69SS]

Start reading.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106839&highlight=spindle+tensile

I got lit on fire on 5 different message forums when I started making my spindle. We were asked every question I'm asking Luke.
I was one of your biggest skeptics at first, and now I have your product on my car. :twothumbs If you hadn't been willing to answer the tough questions, I wouldn't have become a customer.

[RobSMalibu]

Tyler....look unfortunaltey for you I'm a design engineer for a major military aircraft company. I just read that thread and the only techincal data is the material properties you and GM used. Nothing about your cycle testing, your failure testing data.....do you have any impact testing data....none of that was posted. I think the spindle your engineering staff came up with is a nice unit and WAS going to put it on my junk however when you want to be an ass and try to play engineer I think I will take my buisness elsewhere and no Im not going with L&H's spindle. Next time you want to play engineer go get a REAL engineer to talk to the engineering aspects of the product. I love how ever joe blow thinks their an engineer. PLEASE bring you engineering staff in....I want to see the calculations where they got mileage from cycles.


Start reading.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106839&highlight=spindle+tensile

I got lit on fire on 5 different message forums when I started making my spindle. We were asked every question I'm asking Luke. We backed it up with engineering, & technical data. We always have. We never run away and shift focus to something else. You ask me a tough question, I'll give you the answer. If I don't know the answer I'll find it. If I have to send my engineering team in here to satisfy a math question, I'll do it. But don't think that I'm going to let this issue slide. You want to make a new product out of aluminum? Test the living hell out of it, especially when we have seen failures from bigger names than L&H in our segment.

I'll let the 'junk' comment slide for now since you're obviously so new here you don't have a clue what I've made or accomplished.

Carry on.


Tyler

[Mkelcy]

Tyler....look unfortunaltey for you I'm a design engineer for a major military aircraft company. I just read that thread and the only techincal data is the material properties you and GM used. Nothing about your cycle testing, your failure testing data.....do you have any impact testing data....none of that was posted. I think the spindle your engineering staff came up with is a nice unit and WAS going to put it on my junk however when you want to be an ass and try to play engineer I think I will take my buisness elsewhere and no Im not going with L&H's spindle. Next time you want to play engineer go get a REAL engineer to talk to the engineering aspects of the product. I love how ever joe blow thinks their an engineer. PLEASE bring you engineering staff in....I want to see the calculations where they got mileage from cycles.

You might want to build up a bit more of a resume here before insulting a guy who's been a respected member for over 8 years and has done a lot of good for the P-T community. I'm not aware of any significant contributions to our hobby from any "military aircraft company" much less you in particular.

[RobSMalibu]

Thats funny all the technical inovation used to build those spindles came from years of the military aircraft industry coming up with new stronger lighter materials. So actually you can thank the aircraft industry for the ability to have such cool cheap products for your junk. Oh and no insults where intended I just think that all the talk should be backed up with data.


You might want to build up a bit more of a resume here before insulting a guy who's been a respected member for over 8 years and has done a lot of good for the P-T community. I'm not aware of any significant contributions to our hobby from any "military aircraft company" much less you in particular.

[JohnUlaszek]

I just think that all the talk should be backed up with data.

I am surprised and impressed how forthcoming both L&H and Tyler have been considering the potential of using such information against them in a product liability suit -- I can't recall any other vendors sharing this much information. If it were me, I would have a Professional Engineer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_Engineer) sign off on the design and leave it at that.

[RobSMalibu]

Agreed ......I just don't think it was very professional of Tyler with the way he's gone about the disscusion. Well would hope that both of them have had PE's sign off on their products. Just for their safty against lawsuits.

[LateNight72]

Thats funny all the technical inovation used to build those spindles came from years of the military aircraft industry coming up with new stronger lighter materials. So actually you can thank the aircraft industry for the ability to have such cool cheap products for your junk. Oh and no insults where intended I just think that all the talk should be backed up with data.
Pretty sure aluminum has been around longer then Military Aircraft.


That said, I see what you are getting at -- kinda.

[Vegas69]

Putting a spindle in a press doesn't sell me. That's only in one plane at a gradual force. Shouldn't the spindle be tested the other way around? With the force placed on the bottom side? Was a dial indicator used to see if it deflected before you could visually see it? How much real world testing has been done?

I have no pony in this parade but thought I'd throw some questions out there. It looks like a great product and I'm certainly not bashing it.

[Twentyover]

Thats funny all the technical inovation used to build those spindles came from years of the military aircraft industry coming up with new stronger lighter materials. So actually you can thank the aircraft industry for the ability to have such cool cheap products for your junk. Oh and no insults where intended I just think that all the talk should be backed up with data.


C'mon- you don't expect people to buy that do you? Want to talk about development of aluminum for use in aircraft, start talkng about commercial airliners in the 30's not military. The material selected by both suppliers was registered when the current numberclaure was proposed in 1954, indicating the existence of the alloy prior to then

Oh yeah, I guess we can talk about the scandium aluminums the soviets developed, and the 50 or so 8XXX alloys that are not in common usage. Anyone want to talk about 9XXX series alloys? Not unless you want men in dark suits knocking at your door. The exotic alloys used in military aircraft have little relevance to the commercial products used in consumer products today.

[RobSMalibu]

Are you kidding me.....the first second gen fighters were being developed in the early 40's... the high grade Al you see today almost all come from the aircraft industury...mostly military.... you obvious have no clue about the aircraft world. GM Ford and others did not spend the time and money to develop these types of material for use on automobiles because they do not have the weight restriction.....it was the aircraft industry that needed stronger lighter materials.

Please lets get back to the topic at hand....sorry to the highjack of the thread.


C'mon- you don't expect people to buy that do you? Want to talk about development of aluminum for use in aircraft, start talkng about commercial airliners in the 30's not military. The material selected by both suppliers was registered when the current numberclaure was proposed in 1954, indicating the existence of the alloy prior to then

Oh yeah, I guess we can talk about the scandium aluminums the soviets developed, and the 50 or so 8XXX alloys that are not in common usage. Anyone want to talk about 9XXX series alloys? Not unless you want men in dark suits knocking at your door. The exotic alloys used in military aircraft have little relevance to the commercial products used in consumer products today.

[Twentyover]

I do know some small amount of knowledge of engineering and the aircraft world. Enough to be aware that the FAA madated use of metals in commercial aircraft after a fatal airliner crash in 1931 due to a wood spar delaminarting. Enough to know that within 3 years both Boeing and Douglas we building all metal commercial airliners.

Had you taken the time to read my post, you would see that my exception to your claim

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobSMalibu
...all the technical inovation used to build those spindles came from years of the military aircraft industry coming up with new stronger lighter materials.

was that the military aircraft lead the charge. I maintained that the widespread use of all metal commercial aircraft opened the door to availability of high strength aluminums. I'll also maintain that the military appeared pretty much indifferent to until the 4-5 years later when it was clear war was imminent.

But I guess since I work in consumer products, you can try to paint me as having said things I didn't . I don't recall having mentioned any auto manufacturer in my post.

[dipren443]

I do know some small amount of knowledge of engineering and the aircraft world. Enough to be aware that the FAA madated use of metals in commercial aircraft after a fatal airliner crash in 1931 due to a wood spar delaminarting. Enough to know that within 3 years both Boeing and Douglas we building all metal commercial airliners.

Had you taken the time to read my post, you would see that my exception to your claim

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobSMalibu
...all the technical inovation used to build those spindles came from years of the military aircraft industry coming up with new stronger lighter materials.

was that the military aircraft lead the charge. I maintained that the widespread use of all metal commercial aircraft opened the door to availability of high strength aluminums. I'll also maintain that the military appeared pretty much indifferent to until the 4-5 years later when it was clear war was imminent.

But I guess since I work in consumer products, you can try to paint me as having said things I didn't . I don't recall having mentioned any auto manufacturer in my post.

Without creating a pissing contest here... Realize that advanced materials science didn't come into its own until long after these aircraft firsts. The primary driver in advanced materials development is in fact the military aircraft industry(not even limiting this to CF like you alluded to Twentyover). This trickles down to the commercial aviation industry and all other aspects of manufacturing.

Engineering for the military aviation world is single handed one of the most conservative engineering fields. Not only is weight, or lack there of, critical, but also service life.

I am dieing to know who you work for RobSMalibu. Are you in the govt. or civilian sector?

I am in Gas Turbine Power gen. We are the half ass, redneck cousin to the aviation world. Though the science behind engine technology is identical, we are worlds apart.

[lipe33]

With respect to all parties involved, could we please keep the public discussion on the topic of the development of this product.

Many people would be disappointed if this thread was closed because we could not stay on topic.

[Mkelcy]

Without creating a pissing contest here...

Too late for that . . .

[RobSMalibu]

I agree with lipe33

I will say it again ....sorry to the topic starter I had no intention of high jacking this thread like this. Mod's if you would like to delete my posts so this thread gets back on topic I would be cool with it.

[Parkerracing]

well, to tyler and luke thanks for stepping up to the all american dream.........f those na sayers, both of you have given us a choice in an all american manner and all those who are engineers and all those who want to be.......step up or step aside.

Tony Parker

[LateNight72]

Putting a spindle in a press doesn't sell me. That's only in one plane at a gradual force. Shouldn't the spindle be tested the other way around? With the force placed on the bottom side? Was a dial indicator used to see if it deflected before you could visually see it? How much real world testing has been done?

I have no pony in this parade but thought I'd throw some questions out there. It looks like a great product and I'm certainly not bashing it.
+1

I would also like to see what type of force is needed when the spindle is pressed inwards (as mounted on a vehicle) perpendicular to the knuckle. And of course a sustained cyclic load test. (Physical test here, FEM be damned).

[L & H Kustoms]

Putting a spindle in a press doesn't sell me. That's only in one plane at a gradual force. Shouldn't the spindle be tested the other way around? With the force placed on the bottom side? Was a dial indicator used to see if it deflected before you could visually see it? How much real world testing has been done?

I have no pony in this parade but thought I'd throw some questions out there. It looks like a great product and I'm certainly not bashing it.

Todd, we have done numerous destructive tests. Yes we used a dial indicator and yes we have tested it the other way around. we have these on a car and have about 7500 hard driven miles on them with no issues and we continually test them everyday. I live out in the country on some rough windy roads. I have had these spindles Professionally engineered and have engineering reports with them with PE stamps. I had 2 outside engineering firms do design work on the spindles and both engineers came up with the same results as far as design. I have several sets on order from folks and 2 of the orders are mechanical engineers who both have told me they like the design and feel confident in the design otherwise they would be putting them on their own personal vehicles.

[Vegas69]

Sounds great man...good luck with the endeavor.

[jfaria78]

First, I am an engineer at an aerospace company one of the big three. The Aerospace industry uses all kinds of materials, everything from Titanium fastners to carbon fiber to hard anodized billet aluminum. There is even a lot of steel. In most of the new producst we dont use much metal anymore, most of the stuff is all carbon now. So in reality none of this stuff is cutting edge and the average aerospace engineer would not look twice at it.

Miltary Spec or MIL-SPEC means it was built to a specific military requirment. The military has spec's for everything including underware so who cares about mil-spec!

ISO-9001 means you follow written procedures, also only something that is useful when you want to get government contracts.

The question was asked how you can turn cycles into miles. Well that is a very rudimentary task. First find out the average cycles per mile. I am sure GM has a standard number they use. Then using that number you would figure out how many miles it would take before failure; so for example you have an average of 20 cycles per mile and have a max of 200000 cycles then you could expect a failure at about 10000 miles. Thats how that works!

Modeling and Analysis, this is something the aerospace spends a heap of money on every year. They never depend on what SolidWorks or Catia give you from the factory, who knows it could be flawed, if you want to get real fancy you would make your own model using something like MatLab or even Excel.

Good ole fashion road testing is probably the best way of proving a car product. Everyone should do this becuase you never know what will break or when. As the saying goes **** Happens!

Monkey See, Monkey Do. That's how this industry works people are always ripping off other peoples crap. It sucks, but it is a reality.

FYI I run stock spindle becuase I like them and I think they work fine so although I do like one product over the other I will stay neutral on this one...

James

[RobSMalibu]

James its the other way around.... ISO-9001 is just an over arching Quality manegment document saying that a company just has a quality management system and has nothing to do with designing product. However MIL-SPEC's are specifications used when designing product. However newer military products are phasing out the MIL-SPEC's are now using updated ASTM specs.

On a side note your really close to El Segundo....I bet I now which of the big three you currently work for.





Miltary Spec or MIL-SPEC means it was built to a specific military requirment. The military has spec's for everything including underware so who cares about mil-spec!

ISO-9001 means you follow written procedures, also only something that is useful when you want to get government contracts.


James

[RobSMalibu]

Glad to see that you consulted with two design firms and have the PE stamps on the product. And thanks for posting as much information as you have regarding your product.


. I have had these spindles Professionally engineered and have engineering reports with them with PE stamps. I had 2 outside engineering firms do design work on the spindles and both engineers came up with the same results as far as design. I have several sets on order from folks and 2 of the orders are mechanical engineers who both have told me they like the design and feel confident in the design otherwise they would be putting them on their own personal vehicles.

[Bryce]

I am a design engineer working in the testlab of an aerospace company. Primarily i am doing structural testing. I would like to see some more of the setups on each of the spindles. But it looks like you did everything correct.

[L & H Kustoms]

We are now shipping out our spindles please call or email if you would like to order or have any questions. 503-819-9043

[L & H Kustoms]

Here are some photos of our production spindles we have several dozen sets in stock ready to ship!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/IMG_10101-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/12/IMG_1012-1.jpg

Here are our Billet hubs which retail for $325 and include screw in studs bearings and seals
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/billethubs-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/10/billethubs2-1.jpg

Our front machined billet caliper brackets which retail for $125 including hardware
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/12/IMG_1014-1.jpg

Our rear machined billet caliper brackets for 10/12 bolts rearends which have 3 different positions so you can clock the calipers to your taste. we also offer rear brackets for use with the C5/C6 parking brakes. we will have the 9" versions available mid january
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/12/IMG_1015-1.jpg

[syborg tt]

Nice Stuff Luke.

ps a little birdee told me that you were working on a 2nd gen spindle.

[L & H Kustoms]

Nice Stuff Luke.

ps a little birdee told me that you were working on a 2nd gen spindle.

Marty Thanks that little birdie is right we should have the 2nd gen spindles ready to ship mid january. were gonna need to get a set on your car. :twothumbs

[syborg tt]

Marty Thanks that little birdie is right we should have the 2nd gen spindles ready to ship mid january. were gonna need to get a set on your car. :twothumbs


Car is coming home this weekend if the weather holds outs. Travis / Kenny are going to be shipping me my LS1 and work will begin.

Looking forward to starting another project. I am just happy there are so many cool parts for this project.

[L & H Kustoms]

Car is coming home this weekend if the weather holds outs. Travis / Kenny are going to be shipping me my LS1 and work will begin.

Looking forward to starting another project. I am just happy there are so many cool parts for this project.

The 2nd gens are finally starting to get some love

[BonzoHansen]

The 2nd gens are finally starting to get some love

:2nd:

[syborg tt]

The 2nd gens are finally starting to get some love


hurry up brother and don't forget to send me an e-mail when your ready.

[TT302Z28]

Wow Luke..I think I am the only non engineer here.

Price if you would please for the rear bracket and also just to confirm that this is for the 12" C5 rear rotor/caliper arrangement?

Thanks. Beautiful products!

[L & H Kustoms]

hurry up brother and don't forget to send me an e-mail when your ready.

Marty how could I forget about you :idea:

I should have them ready mid january

[L & H Kustoms]

Wow Luke..I think I am the only non engineer here.

Price if you would please for the rear bracket and also just to confirm that this is for the 12" C5 rear rotor/caliper arrangement?

Thanks. Beautiful products!

Thanks Well not the only one I'm not either.... but I have formed an amazing engineering team.

The price for the rear brackets are $125 including hardware. and yes they are designed for the C5/C6 brakes. so the entry level 305mm 12" rear rotors. The brackets will work for any C5/C6 brakes as the caliper abutment brackets are for each specific diameter rotor.