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darren@ridetech
05-13-2009, 11:30 AM
Being an "A" Body enthusiast myself I have been begging for a TigerCage for our cars. Well we are just finishing up development on a bolt in roll cage for Bret's 70 GSX. I have had several requests for a TigerCage for the A bodies, so I thought you guys would like to see some pics of the prototype cage. This TigerCage should fit all 68-72 GM A bodies. But just to be sure I am going to install one on my personal 70 Chevelle.... :) I'll post up some install pics on my car.

Our 66 Chevelle is next!

Road Race Style Door Bars
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Main Hoop & Shoulder Harness Bar
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Door Bar Kick Panel Mount
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Package Tray Bar
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Trunk Bars
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

darren@ridetech
05-13-2009, 11:30 AM
Here are some images of the brackets that we use to attach the bars to the floor pan and frame rail. On the production parts all of the brackets inside the car will be stainless though.

Main Hoop Floor Mount
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Hoop Mount Reinforcement Bracket
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Hoop Mount Reinforcement Bracket
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Door Bar Kick Panel Mount
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Kick Panel Mount Reinforcement Bracket
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

darren@ridetech
05-13-2009, 11:31 AM
Trunk Bar Package Tray Mount/ Attaches to Package Tray Bar
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Package Tray Reinforcment Plate
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Trunk Bar Reinforcment Bracket
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Lap Belt Tabs
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

1badchevelle
05-13-2009, 01:06 PM
any Idea on what they are going to run (Ball park)

Can I get a set to test fit :fingersx:

darren@ridetech
05-13-2009, 02:06 PM
The base cage w/o door bars will retail for $2500. The road race style door bars are an extra $900.

XLexusTech
05-13-2009, 05:54 PM
What is the status of the certifications?

bret
05-13-2009, 06:15 PM
What is the status of the certifications?

Still in progress...still months, not weeks. Hopefully by SEMA this year. The conversations with SFI and ECTA are encouraging.

PT Goat
05-14-2009, 05:34 AM
Damn I want one of these for my '65.

Eric Howell
05-14-2009, 07:33 AM
I want one for my S-10

Roadrage David
05-14-2009, 08:32 AM
The base cage w/o door bars will retail for $2500. The road race style door bars are an extra $900.
very nice , But for that kind of price i whant them made out of aluminum:idea::smoke:

Bryce
05-14-2009, 08:40 AM
how about a carbon fiber cage, i heard that there was one for a BMW M3. it was about twice the price of yours. that would be a super light and stiff cage. i would only be concerned about an abrasion on the CF.

darren@ridetech
05-14-2009, 10:42 AM
very nice , But for that kind of price i whant them made out of aluminum:idea::smoke:

Well, these are actually 304 stainless....that a step up from aluminum.

Roadrage David
05-14-2009, 12:24 PM
Im looking to save weight!!!

Bryce
05-14-2009, 12:34 PM
for weight savings just use some PVC pipe. HAHA.

Has anyone seen an aluminum roll bar before? what kind of wall thickness would be needed to obtain the same structural properties. I know aluminum is about 30% the weight of steel but its also about 30% more elastic (alot more deflection for the same load) also the tensile strength and shear modulus are much less. Im thinking in a roll cage the savings in weight may be minimal to have the same saftey characteristics. Also aluminum work hardens and becomes brittle under constant flexing, so if the cage was used to stiffen teh chassis it would see some flexing. This would create a shortened life for the cage and would need to be replaced. The same reason chromoly chassis only last a certain amount of time.

Roadrage David
05-15-2009, 03:16 AM
Im not sure but the conections of the cage looks to be made from alu. also overhere in europe they use alu scafholding tubes uptill 4/5storys high. im prety sure that those dont get britle.
http://www.asc-bv.nl/2/index.php?page=nl_gevelsteiger
http://www.asc-bv.nl/2/index.php?page=apwrolsteiger
http://www.asc-bv.nl/2/index.php?page=onderdelen
http://www.asc-bv.nl/2/index.php?page=nl_specials


no flex ore britle problem howabout airplanes then????
ps last link scroll douwn they work for F1 teams as wel! http://www.asc-bv.nl/2/index.php?page=nl_projecten

darren@ridetech
05-15-2009, 05:51 AM
All of the clamps and weld in bungs are investment cast in stainless as well.

Roadrage David
05-15-2009, 07:34 AM
Darin dont get me wrong i think your Tiger cage is the BISENIS defenatly..
are you ever going to build it from aluminium???.....

Bryce
05-15-2009, 07:37 AM
i dont doubt aluminum is a structural material, i am a mechanical engineer for an aerospace company. what i was saying, was that the weight savings can be minimal for an aluminum cage structure. the testing would need to show a lifetime of flexing to show no fatigue failure.

any way, back to the original post. This is an awesome cage. I think it is great for my drag car that is an original K-model mustang. I have not chopped the car at all yet. But i need a cage since i will be running in the low tens. this cage will be perfect when it passes NHRA rules.

TT302Z28
05-15-2009, 11:34 AM
Maybe AirRide could use legos.

LateNight72
05-16-2009, 09:51 PM
i dont doubt aluminum is a structural material, i am a mechanical engineer for an aerospace company. what i was saying, was that the weight savings can be minimal for an aluminum cage structure. the testing would need to show a lifetime of flexing to show no fatigue failure.

any way, back to the original post. This is an awesome cage. I think it is great for my drag car that is an original K-model mustang. I have not chopped the car at all yet. But i need a cage since i will be running in the low tens. this cage will be perfect when it passes NHRA rules.
Summed up well. Namely the link in that second post.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showpost.php?p=384672&postcount=8
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showpost.php?p=516859&postcount=19

Roadrage David
05-17-2009, 09:39 PM
If the weight saving is minimal why dont they build airplains out of stainles steel???.
comon now guys.
Every ounce that can be saved is 1 of them.

i know lets NOT use carbon ore fiberglass or lexan ore alu heads and manifolds ecetera ecetera parts.. all the stuf i have been saveing weight with like fiber glass hood frond and rear bumper spoilers aluminium wheels and alu heads manifold drifshaft alu under drive pullys alu drive shaft ecetera ecetera. will be compromised useing a steel roll cage.. individualy you dont save that mutch thats tru BUT saving weight on all these parts makes a big diference..... nou clearly a mecanical engeneer from airospace tegnolegy should know this. no ofends but the above is BS................ if weight thusend matter then i gues colin chapman was wrong in his aprotch how to build race cars. lets not forget that our muscle cars are humungesly LARGE and havey compeard to the euro and japanese cars.
Nice looking parts are second in my book if they dont ad weight saveing. i wil not spend 2500usd for a nice LOOKING piece that thuse the same work as a 300usd welded ore in my case bold in cage if it thusend give me anything els then looks for that price...last but not least what about a life time of flex on aluminium heads pistons rods manifolds ecetera.. i think they wil see a lot more stress then a aluminium roll cage. witch happens to be as strong as its weakest link like the stainless steel cage namely the bolds that hase been used to tighten the thing up with ....

Cruiser
05-17-2009, 10:33 PM
On air planes it's the sum of all the parts and how they go together that creates streagth for aluminum structures. I don't think an aftermarket company making car parts is going to invest in the structural engineering and failure analysis required to have some thiing that is going to save wieght in a roll cage. It's not intened to be used in full blow multi million $$$ races teams, it ment for enthuasist to use. That one reason why it's bolt it. It purpose is not to save wieght but save lives so if the differance is 25 lbs in a street driven track car then you need to go on diet or find something else to save wieght. If i were going to use/need one I would not let 25 lbs stand in the way of my safety.If it could have been done faster they would have

As for composit Boeing is trying to get it's Dream Liner with composit fusalage ready to fly. Problems with wing built with aluminum and attachements, build quality are delaying them along with engineering. I am sure if could have done faster they would already be in the air. There is so much more to structrual engineering that just a drawing and an idea, it's the sum of all the parts in airplanes and roll cages.

camaro2nv
05-17-2009, 11:33 PM
Wound Carbon is seven times stronger then steel. Problem is finding someone that has the machine to make it. I just happen to know someone. His company is making sway bars, springs, ect ect in wound CF.

Roadrage David
05-18-2009, 02:00 AM
Cruiser im pretty sure and confidend that a aluminium cage is plenty strong and will save plenty lives when things go wrong. Talking around in ecseses is ez enoughf .The cage the way it is isend aproved anyway, and makeing it in alu would make it so mutch special and worth the 2500 usd( i gues).
the structual talk about alu is as mentiond befor BS plenty of aluminium GLUED cars driving around like the lotus elize. and ore audi,s.............ps having said that useing thinner stainles steel tubbing will do the same trick

Chicken Coupe
05-18-2009, 06:24 AM
Darren,

Looks like a great product. :1st:

Personally I'd much rather dump a few pounds off of other incidentals and have the safety and added integrity of the roll cage.

Thanks for making it available.

I think it would be a big benefit to those interested if you could add some additional details about the cages here or on the web site, like the distance between the LH and RH side rails (to mock up/verify adequate seat clearance/locations) and any tricks you learn about neatly reinstalling carpeting or other interior parts.

darren@ridetech
05-18-2009, 07:51 AM
The dimension will vary per application. If anyone needs specific dims. just email me, or send me a pm.

So far in our cars we have installed the brackets over the carpet, the brackets inside the car are stainless so they look pretty nice. The can be installed under the carpet, but there may not be enough material with your existing carpet.

wmhjr
05-18-2009, 08:12 AM
Wound Carbon is seven times stronger then steel. Problem is finding someone that has the machine to make it. I just happen to know someone. His company is making sway bars, springs, ect ect in wound CF.

People are making some reasonable comparisons, but at the expense of keeping in mind the original application. "Strength" can have many different definitions. A sway bar is not expected to have to deal with friction. In other words, there's nothing "grinding" on that sway bar while it's performing it's intended function. I'm a huge believer in CF. I've got a high end road bike with a CF frame.

BUT - a roll cage is expected to function in a different use case. Try taking a file to a wound carbon fiber tube, and then take that same file to either aluminum, Chromoly, or stainless. If a roll cage is, well, actually "rolled" at speed, the road surface is a great big grinder. As soon as a small portion of that wound CF is damaged, the entire component is compromised and will likely fail. Add to that the effect of the relatively large mass of the vehicle itself (which is not insignificant) and you've got some issues to deal with.

LateNight72
05-18-2009, 09:22 AM
Cruiser im pretty sure and confidend that a aluminium cage is plenty strong and will save plenty lives when things go wrong. Talking around in ecseses is ez enoughf .The cage the way it is isend aproved anyway, and makeing it in alu would make it so mutch special and worth the 2500 usd( i gues).
the structual talk about alu is as mentiond befor BS plenty of aluminium GLUED cars driving around like the lotus elize. and ore audi,s.............ps having said that useing thinner stainles steel tubbing will do the same trick
Aluminum is brittle, in comparison to steel. Its cracks and breaks, instead of bending like steel.

In any high-force impact, the roll cage is going to bend, even if it is "just a little". Where the steel would bend slightly, aluminum will crack. Not something you want while you are doing barrel rolls down the front straight.

Also, you will need to increase the thickness of the aluminum tubing, in order for it to be nearly as strong.


Watch this accident, and watch the roof halo on the roll cage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H48cXV35gw

Cruiser
05-18-2009, 11:20 PM
Cruiser im pretty sure and confidend that a aluminium cage is plenty strong and will save plenty lives when things go wrong. Talking around in ecseses is ez enoughf .The cage the way it is isend aproved anyway, and makeing it in alu would make it so mutch special and worth the 2500 usd( i gues).
the structual talk about alu is as mentiond befor BS plenty of aluminium GLUED cars driving around like the lotus elize. and ore audi,s.............ps having said that useing thinner stainles steel tubbing will do the same trick

I am not saying what you want can't be done but it sure aint gonna happen for $2500 bucks. I am sure that some of the cost of this cage is going to be what it takes for it to gain certification through sanctioning bodies. Once again it comes down to a companys ability to engineer and pay for anylsis to prove out the engineering. Drawing up the idea or having one is the easy part, making sure it works is the hard and exspensive part.

I would be willing to bet that you could find some aluminum tube and bend up a cage of your dreams and it would look great and be lite wieght but if it's ever asked to function I sure hope it's not me in the drivers or passanger seat.

I see you live in overseas. I don't know about there but over here it's all about litigation and what you can be sued for and taken to court for if your product fails. These guys have major liabilty by just making an air suspension not to mention a rool cage now.

MonzaRacer
05-27-2009, 09:46 AM
Just to make a point which is lost on Roadrage David, is that the cage in aluminum would weight in nearly 750lbs and cost in the range of buying a full on street challenge kit to be as strong, never get certified from any sactioning body or cost over double what a tiger cage would oh and here are the parts weights for sanctioned/legal steel and chrome molly S&W racecars cages (I emailed them for shipping weights):

Ernest
I do not know of any sanctioning body that allows an aluminum roll cage.
Here are the weights of our cages
Mild steel 8-point 93 lbs, CM 8-point 70 lbs.
Mild steel 10-point 143 lbs. CM 10-point 108 lbs.
Tom


So go figure even if you added another 30lbs to a 10 point your adding no more than one passenger to the car in weight. Heck some lightweight seats cure that issue.
I hope David doesnt try to get something built,,,, every person I have talked to said it would fracture like sticks or bones not bend and if it did bend it would simply cave in and fail miserably and possibly kill him. but here are weights, everyone can weigh in on that. I know the tiger cage probalby weighs a little more but who cars Bret and company have built some awesome stuff in a bolt in kit. Just wish I could get one for a Monza haha.
Lee

protour_chevelle
05-27-2009, 04:26 PM
Cruiser im pretty sure and confidend that a aluminium cage is plenty strong and will save plenty lives when things go wrong. Talking around in ecseses is ez enoughf .The cage the way it is isend aproved anyway, and makeing it in alu would make it so mutch special and worth the 2500 usd( i gues).
the structual talk about alu is as mentiond befor BS plenty of aluminium GLUED cars driving around like the lotus elize. and ore audi,s.............ps having said that useing thinner stainles steel tubbing will do the same trick
Honestly.... Your thought process is in the wrong section. If you really want the bad ass attention. Put your money into a well fitting and looking cage that meets the scca/ihra/nhra rules.

Theres a reason why there is wall thickness restrictions and material useage. Its be tested and proven, anything less is not sufficient.

Feel free to wrap yourself up around a tree with a "fancy" aluminum cage prezeled up nicely next to you.


just my 2 cents worth

darren@ridetech
06-05-2009, 04:40 AM
Here are some more pictures and a video of our new GM "A" body display chassis. This new chassis is pretty bad ass. It features the new monotube remote resevoir Titanium Series Shockwaves w/ the infrared height sensors, rear Titanium shocks, the new MuscleBar, TigerCage and AirPod compressor system. We finished it up just in time to push in on the trailer for Power Tour.

http://ridetechgarage.com/more/2009/06/new-display-chassis-for-power-tour/ (http://ridetechgarage.com/more/2009/06/new-display-chassis-for-power-tour/)