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63SW
02-09-2005, 08:58 AM
I see this product being used a lot and was wondering so i went to DSE's website to investigate .

they have a bulk kit listed for $250.00 or so... :eek:
CONTAINS 4 - 10"x10" sections ????
IS THAT A MISPRINT or am i missing something ?

How much will i need to do my 69 camaro convertable ?

Thanx
JC

Happyfunballs
02-09-2005, 09:34 AM
That's probably not a misprint. Dynamat is very proud of their product. Look on ebay, or look up Fat Mat. I need to to this for my 67 convertible.

Steve1968LS2
02-09-2005, 09:59 AM
Buy the bulk packs of Dynamat on Ebay for $100.. same stuff, factory box and way cheaper than anyone.. I can't believe people buy it for $250 a box..

See it here..
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38636&item=7952264588&rd=1

Steve1968LS2
02-09-2005, 10:01 AM
FATMAT is even cheaper (and you get more)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=38638&item=7953110559&rd=1

I used the dynamat though because I wasn't sure how good the FM was..

Bigblue73
02-09-2005, 10:21 AM
Try looking for at www.thezeb.com (http://www.thezeb.com/) A buddy of mine found this place when he did his corvette. Prices are about 25% less than the street.

Bigblue73
02-09-2005, 10:24 AM
Sorry I forgot the part number for www.thezeb.com (http://www.thezeb.com)

Try part number 10455 in the search box. This is dynamat Extreme has (9) 18 x 32 sheets for $159.99.

Part number 11105 is the dynaliner and is $39.95.

63SW
02-09-2005, 03:37 PM
Thanks for the help and info ...

I want to use this on my car but i dont think im going to spend 1000.00 to do it.

I'll look the other items up.

protouring70
02-09-2005, 05:20 PM
Hey has anybody ever used "FAT MAT". It is suppose to be better than Dynamat.
I seen it on Ebay, you can get a kit for $100 and its enough to do almost the whole car. Just wondering?

Happyfunballs
02-10-2005, 06:01 AM
I haven't but I've heard good things. I'm at the stage where I need to do this and have been doing a bit of research on it. I have a friend that says Fat Mat is just as good, if not better than Dynamat. I intend to buy it for my car. For the difference you can afford to add a second layer of Fat Mat and still be under the cost of Dynamat.

Steve1968LS2
02-10-2005, 09:27 AM
Does any read my posts?

""FAT MAT". It is suppose to be better than Dynamat.
I seen it on Ebay, you can get a kit for $100 "

Fat Mat is only $49 for 50 sq ft. on Ebay..

"I want to use this [dynamat] on my car but i dont think im going to spend 1000.00 to do it."

How so? two boxes (enough for the whole car) is less than $200.. two boxes of FatMat would only be $100 for 100 sqft. thats enought to do your whole car and a third of another one.. or do double layers on the trans tunnel and stuff..

Shop smart.. shop S-mart... ;)

Andrew McBride
02-10-2005, 09:51 AM
Steve,

didn't you use around 80Sq. ft. to do your car? I am going to purchase the fat mat. All let you guys know what I think.

Andrew

Happyfunballs
02-10-2005, 12:25 PM
I just ordered $100sq/ft from http://www.fatmat.com/fatpaks/100.htm .....know that they charge you $29.99 for shipping. I checked ebay thinkin I could do better on the shipping and found a lot of the same. Total was $129.98.

Steve1968LS2
02-10-2005, 02:08 PM
Steve,

didn't you use around 80Sq. ft. to do your car? I am going to purchase the fat mat. All let you guys know what I think.

Andrew

Yea but I did EVERYTHING .. inside the rear quarters.. the roof.. doors.. the firewall.. looked like a big TV dinner in there :)

With two boxes of Fatmat (100sqft) you can do the whole car, trunk and double some areas like the trans tunnel and such..

63SW
02-10-2005, 02:20 PM
Yea , i read your post , and i will probably order the FATMAT next week.

The thing was , i was going by THEIR idea saying 120sqft on average for a midsize car .
AND @ $250.00 for the 10"x10" i just blurted out $1000.00 Figuring i would need 4 boxes .

I do everything i can to "shop Smart" - i have to , i have to many other bills ...haha

VenturaII
02-10-2005, 03:41 PM
Steve, did you put the extreme dynamat on the ceiling. Think there would be any issues with the summer heat making it come loose? I want to do the same if it works well.

Pro-touring towncar
02-10-2005, 07:54 PM
check out I think it is called ice dam sold at hardwares the same stuff as dynamat but can get it way cheeper. You don't need to cover the intire surface for stopping vibration. you just need to put a 2-3" square piece every so often. That is what I did on my 2002 USACi Sound Quality World Champion. There is meny differant companies making sound deadener mat. b-quiet is another good one.

Tim

Duesey
02-17-2005, 04:23 AM
I wouldn't advice using the "ice Dam" or it was Ice and water shield when I tried it in my blazer years ago. It looked like dynamat and had similiar properties but I spent a weekend and installed it in the blazer. I spent another day removing it and the tar smell lingered for six months even though I removed it. My wife will still bring that up when I try to save a buck.

dhardison
02-17-2005, 05:36 AM
Sorry for the stupid question, but what exactly are the benefits of using Dynamat/Fatmat?

Thanks,
Dan

Steve1968LS2
02-17-2005, 07:28 AM
Steve, did you put the extreme dynamat on the ceiling. Think there would be any issues with the summer heat making it come loose? I want to do the same if it works well.

I don't think anything could make dynamat come loose.. that is some sticky stuff.. besides, my interior shop dyanmats the roofs and they have never had a problem. My guess is that heat would only make it stick more.

It's nice when you tap on the roof now and get a solid "thunk" sound..

It is important that you have the surface as clean as possible.. was easy for me since I had a new roof..

Steve1968LS2
02-17-2005, 07:30 AM
Sorry for the stupid question, but what exactly are the benefits of using Dynamat/Fatmat?

Thanks,
Dan

Mainly it sound deadens panels by stoping the transmission of noise through vibration.

Technically you don't even need to do the whole surface.. a piece in the center of the door can effectively deaden the entire door.

To a small degree it also helps insulate the car from heat. Dynamat does not absorb sound, it absorbs vibration.

paulk68
02-17-2005, 08:36 AM
How does it Stick. It there a glue that you use or something.
Thanks
Paul

Steve1968LS2
02-17-2005, 09:06 AM
How does it Stick. It there a glue that you use or something.
Thanks
Paul

Basicly Dynamat (and most of these products) are a foil backet buytal type material.. It is VERY sticky.

Everything you wanted to know about Dynamat but were afraid to ask..

http://www.dynamat.com/spec_dynamat_xtreme.htm

Dadms
02-17-2005, 08:29 PM
Has anyone used the Brown Bread product from B-Quiet?

http://www.b-quiet.com/index.html

bdoobie69
02-22-2005, 06:02 PM
Does anyone have any pics of their dynamat or fatmat installation. I am thinking of doing this myself.

Happyfunballs
02-22-2005, 06:48 PM
Just a quick post in this thread. I ordered a 100sqft kit from www.fatmat.com two weeks ago and have not received it. They are not returning my calls, nor my emails. I don't have a shipping date nor a tracking number. I'll post if something changes.

Tom Welch
02-22-2005, 07:14 PM
I ran across a water heater jacket that looks suspiciously like automotive insulation with a foil backing. About 17 bucks for enough to cover an average heater will cover a lot of floor or ceiling, etc. Spray on adhesive should stick it in place. I've seen similar stuff in various magazines selling for a lot more. Street Rodder mag did an article using a similar product. It is like a cotton fiber or jute type stuff about 1/2 inch thick and fairly strong from my poke the package with a pen test. Very Official I might add. Does any one know anything about this stuff? I'll get the specifics tomorrow and post it and see what happens.

Steve1968LS2
02-22-2005, 08:17 PM
Does anyone have any pics of their dynamat or fatmat installation. I am thinking of doing this myself.

http://www.z069.us/69/Final_Assembly/69h.jpg

I also did the roof, doors, quarters, firewall.. well you get the idea :)

It's easy to do.

I got my dynamat on Ebay for $96 a bulk pack .. Fat mat was cheaper.

69Rathead
02-22-2005, 09:44 PM
Tom the water heater insulation sounds very interesting please do post what you can on it. My only concern about it would be wether or not it will insulate sound well. My guess is that would be it's possible downfall when compared to Dynamat or Fatmat. It may only have the sound blocking capability of stock automotive undercarpet Jute padding. I hope otherwise though as Dynamat is so spendy!

Tom Welch
02-23-2005, 05:50 PM
Ok Rathead, here's what I've found so far... Quietride solutions uses a "dense sound absorbing pad". The product I found looks exactly and I mean exactly like all the photos I've seen. I have not done a side by side comparison though. 24 sq ft for about 25.00, its 3/8" thick, advertised to be the equivalent of r-19 insulation which is about 8 inches thick if I remember. I have a call in to the firm that produces this stuff and I am going to set myself up as a dealer to find the real skinny on this stuff. I have shown this to some friends and they agree with me as far as the two products being the same. I believe that what I purchased today is flame retardent and mildew resistant. It would seem that it would need to be to cover a water heater anyway. I'll have more as info comes to me. The Quietride kit for a 1st gen Camaro/Firebird sells for 540.00, this comes with aluminum tape to seal seams, spray adhesive, and some dynamat. The rep on the phone said that dynamat is best used in squares or rectangles in various places inside the car since covering the whole interior was not more effective just more expensive. Oh yeah, it is precut too. I just looked at Dynamat's site and was daring and unafraid to ask questions, their product is very similar to a/c duct insulation, the peel and stick kind that is.

69Rathead
02-23-2005, 08:38 PM
Damn! You found out a lot of good info! Think I'll start looking at some of this stuff as well. You ever consider detective work? Haha! You'd make a great detective! Keep us updated by all means...I think your on to something here! Great follow up!

Tom Welch
02-24-2005, 05:21 PM
Thanks for the kudos, I suggest going to a building supply store and look for plumbing, the look for plumbing insulation products, the result is rather interesting.

F70t/a
02-24-2005, 07:28 PM
Yea but I did EVERYTHING .. inside the rear quarters.. the roof.. doors.. the firewall.. looked like a big TV dinner in there :)

With two boxes of Fatmat (100sqft) you can do the whole car, trunk and double some areas like the trans tunnel and such..


steve,

How much does that stuff weight?

Todds69
02-26-2005, 03:37 PM
I went to a hot rod interior shop today and ask him what he uses. He said he's tried all of it, and Dynamat is probably the best you can buy. However when I brought up Fatmat he told me a story. He order some and had one heck of a time getting it had to call his credit card company and reject the charges. Fatmat never answered his calls and when he finally heard from them is when they woundered why he revoked payment. He finally recieved some COD only (his choice). He bought some other stuff at a lumber/roofing store "peal & seal" The sticker part # was identical to the Fatmat part# on the roll.....interesting!? He did however tell me he found out Fatmat went bankrupt and/or was under going new ownership. One last thing he said he hasn't tried BrownBread yet. I found the "peal & seal" locally for $26.99 @100sq.ft. Carter Lumber....Time for a beer :cheers:

Tom Welch
02-26-2005, 05:20 PM
My space age water heater jacket stuff weighs about .12 lb per square foot. I want to see some of that peel-n-seal stuff.

69Rathead
02-26-2005, 05:28 PM
Great info Todd! I'm beginning to think I'm in the wrong forum...I'm sick and lost :screwy: ...this is some sort of bored Detective's Forum I'm stuck in! The only thing that brings me back out of this Twilight Zone is the great info you guys are coming up with! Awesome! :cheers: Tom and Todd: Are you guys really from TNT Detective Agency? :) Thanks alot you guys!

Todds69
02-26-2005, 07:39 PM
We can never tell....classified info you see!! lol

Tom Welch
02-28-2005, 05:04 PM
If I tell I have to kill, If I think about it I have to hurt, so....

Payton King
03-02-2005, 08:34 AM
So from what I have read so far the peel and stick from the Home depot is as good as Fatmat and Dynamat? That Dynamat is the same as HVAC duct insulation? What about the smell of the stuff. I have heard on more that one occasion that some of the stuff is asphalt based and really stinks up the car. Anyone have any information on www.lizardskin.com ?

Steve1968LS2
03-02-2005, 08:55 AM
The bottom of my car is shot with lizardskin.. cool stuff, it's like a thinner less bumpy version of bed liner.

At my shop they shoot the interiors with it (the interior version that is VERY un-bumpy) and then dynomat over that.

FYI.. just using lizardskin does nothing about heat. Dyno/fatmat/brownbread does due to its foil backing..

The Home depot stuff sounds interesting but is it worth it to save $50?

69Rathead
03-02-2005, 12:26 PM
Steve, How did you get $50? I can't find 100 sq ft of Dynamat anywhere for $76.99! The cheapest deal on 100 sq ft. I could find is $99, it is Fatmat not Dynamat, and the shipping is $29. That is $100 difference based on 100 sq ft. I'm not trying to nitpick here but if I can save $100 and buy the same stuff as Fatmat (Peal an Seal) and not deal with shipping then why not at least try it. Also several people have mentioned ordering Fatmat and having problems, delays, like they may be having business issues. If the stuff stinks I'm out $26.99 thats if I buy the full 100 sq ft roll. I'm sure I can buy a smaller amount and leave it in the car a few nights and see if it wreaks or not. Did you use true Dynamat?, did you buy on Ebay? I took a look at ebay and Crutchfield prices on true Dynamat and here is an example of a crutchfield price: http://www.crutchfield.com/S-LO61hxJIFcQ/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=181250&I=15410125 for 4 sq. ft. I'm sure we can find it cheaper than this but this is just an example of the crazy prices you can pay for the stuff not to mention the new Xtreme version prices. Also most of the deals on Ebay are for $99 are not true Dynamat and may wreak as well. Sounds like try the cheap stuff or pay the full price on true Dynamat so just tell me where I can get it the cheapest and I'll check it out. Thanks for any info.

Todds69
03-02-2005, 01:18 PM
Your local lumber company should have a roll for under $30. If not Lowes has a real small roll 6"x25' it's only $12.47. I figured I would try it this spring when the stuff is more plyable. Leave the windows down and no interior in it for a week or so...just in case.

Steve1968LS2
03-02-2005, 02:10 PM
Steve, How did you get $50? I can't find 100 sq ft of Dynamat anywhere for $76.99! The cheapest deal on 100 sq ft. I could find is $99, it is Fatmat not Dynamat, and the shipping is $29. That is $100 difference based on 100 sq ft.

Well the home depot stuff is around $40.. Fatmat is around $100 for enough to do your car and part of another car.. When I said $50 I was not thinking about shipping (i get it locally)..

Do you have a pic of this stuff? As stated I heard there is a smell issue because of the material they used in making it. I wasn't trying to be a jerk, I was just saying in the grand scheme of building a car $50-$70 is not a a lot. I guess I would have to see the home depot stuff.

One thing is true.. Dynamat and Fatmat sure are not complicated products so I wouldn't be surprised if there was something similar..

I get all my junk like this from Ebay.. one seller there is in Los Angeles so that's a drive and pick up deal.

69Rathead
03-02-2005, 11:37 PM
I did not take it as you being a jerk, you bring up a very good point...you get what you pay for and sometimes being a tightwad will cause you to end up spending more in the long run or doing more work... like pulling the stinky stuff out and doing it right with the real Dynamat. Sometimes in my neverending quest to be as much a tightwad as possible I forget that and get stung! However, I've done pretty well a few times too. The ultimate tightwad and what I'm striving to be is the guy who goes to the Home insulation company that makes the stuff and gets an unlimited bulk buy of $10-$15 for 100 sq ft. has another company print up some boxes with a catchy name like FatMat, DEF-MAT, BlingMat, TUNERJiveMat or whatever with Bikini babes holding BIG WOOFERS on the cover and then sells it to all these Tuner heads at $199 per/100sqft. Then kicks back a few years later in his mansion with a 10 car garage full of nice rides. Hey I can dream can't I!
:thankyou:

Steve1968LS2
03-03-2005, 07:01 AM
TUNERjivemat.. I like that name.. hmmmm

;)

69Rathead
03-03-2005, 06:08 PM
Thanks Todd. I'm going to go check it out this weekend at Lowes. Think i'll buy the small roll, unpeel it and leave it in the car for a week and see what happens...if it wreaks we'll know it. It's called peal 'n' seal right?

dennis68
03-03-2005, 07:14 PM
Anybody have any ideas about how well the budget stuff from "the depot" is about sound deadening. I have the luxury of living where the temp is never too cold or too hot so insulation isn't a real concern but I would love to quiet down the interior drone a bit.

69Rathead
03-03-2005, 10:38 PM
That is one of the concerns brought up earlier in the thread is wether or not the sound factor could be matched with these products. If you read some of what the other guys found out you will see that the peal 'n' seal has suspiciously the same part number on it as FatMat which claims to be better or as good as Dynamat in sound deadening. If in fact it is the same stuff then we have a cheap good sound deadening alternative to use. However, if it is not the same then your guess is as good as anyone else's and we might as well just fork out the money and go with Dynamat. Basically we have several factors to consider Price, Sound, Odor and possibly vendor issues (Fatmat). I'm going to try to buy some of this stuff and check it out for Odor and see if I can take some pics and see if we can in fact verify it is really the same stuff as FatMat. It would not surprise me if it was as i'm sure someone has gone out and tried to make money by selling a "Home" insulating product as a "Audio" product. Hopefully we'll know in a week or so if it is the same.

Tom Welch
03-04-2005, 03:38 PM
This is another area that screams for side by side testing of various products to determine just what is what. I want to believe that Dynomat and the various other brand names that we all know are far and away the best stuff available, but is it? I want an in depth investigation. If my find at Home Depot is the same then shame on the companies that market a way overpriced product and HOOAH! for us that have found some less expensive alternatives. The search for the truth continues...

dennis68
03-06-2005, 01:59 PM
OK, I broke down and bought some of the Home Depot stuff. It was 18.00 for a roll 6" wide X around 30'. The one roll covered the floor of my cab with some left over. It is about 75* outside and it's been sitting in the sun all day. When I first rolled it out at about noon today there was some odor, not asphault but something for sure. It didn't have any smell for the 2 days it sat in truck so don't think it won't smell once unrolled. After a couple hours in the sun there is nothing terribly stinky but it does smell like something. I'll update tonight after having all afternoon to heat up.

king67rsss
03-06-2005, 06:30 PM
What was the name of the Home Depot stuff? I stopped by there today and couldn't find it.

69Rathead
03-06-2005, 06:48 PM
Also what part number is on the stuff so we can compare it to FatMat part number...you bought the Peal 'n' seal right?

TonyL
03-06-2005, 06:54 PM
Here's a bunch of "peel and seal (http://bestmaterials.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=932)

as a window intaller, we used it all the time around window is stucco houses. Very sticky, low odor, seemed exactly like dynamat to me, I'd used both products.

WS6
03-06-2005, 07:43 PM
i just did this to my formula. i used b-quiet extreme and jute padding. you know the stuf that lays under carpets in a house. the cars quiet now. i still need to do the doors though. jute backing is great stuff, very cheap very very effective, but its not the same as any of these asphalt based products(dynomat, b-quiet, rammat). so use it in conjunction with a asphalt based stuff and youll queit the car down big time. dynomat and the like stop vibrations and jute backing absorbs noises.

brown bread from b-queit is no longer availible its now called ultimate and is a little different. still great though.

quiet ride is expensive, very exspensive. everything is precut and desinged to fit a certain way. i have never worked with precut or made to fit stuff that fit as well as their stuff did. very good quality, but like mentioned its very expensive. as for how well it works. i cant say i never rode in the car, but it should work very well. its basically the same thing i did to my car and that worked great.

dennis68
03-06-2005, 08:24 PM
The Home Depot stuff was called "Jiffy Seal". After sitting all day in the sun with the windows up it had a slight odor of fresh paved asphault when I sat down, it was gone after a few seconds of having the door opened. We'll see how it is by the end of the week.

69Rathead
03-06-2005, 10:17 PM
Tony Thanks for the post and input! Today was my first day off and I slept all day (work nights). So Tomorrow or Tuesday I'll go get some of the stuff as well and give it a try. So far it sounds pretty good Dennis...good job and thanks for the info too. If you want to see something kind of interesting go to google search and type in "peal and seal insulation" (without the quotes of course) and check out some of the hits you get. Also try jiffy seal and/or other combinations with "audio" or "sound" it's interesting. This same conversation in this thread has been in other threads on http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/index.php and other places. Go on Car audio.com and do a search on "Tar" also do the "peel and seal" search...very interesting. :hmm: Some like it... some don't but people are using it...ALOT!. Also people complain about the tar or asphalt smell of Fatmat as well as many other popular sound deadening materials which tells me they are most probably almost all asphalt based and therefore probably pretty close to the same in sound deadening based on the thickness/density. Check this thread out too:
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-27215.html

By the way here are some product web sites as well:

Jiffy seal: http://www.protectowrap.com/cat_roofjiffy.php
Peel and seal: http://www.mfmbp.com/

Tom Welch
03-07-2005, 06:21 PM
The Home Depot stuff is called "Space Age Water Heater Jacket" it is claimed to be the equivalent of r-19 insulation. It is manufactured by Quality Heat Shield Sound Deadener. No joke thats the name on the label. They are located in Riverside CA. I have been unsuccesful in contacting them sofar. I'll post any results here as soon as I have some.

69Rathead
03-12-2005, 04:54 AM
Have not found any of these previously talked about items at either Lowes or Home depot in my area. The closest I found was Peal and Stick by Dow Corning which was just Tar or Asphalt type tape 6" wide by 30" bout an 1/8" thick or so and it had no Aluminum on one side like the others. Just a wax paper type lining on both sides and it stinks of tar badly...not going into my car! Think I'll just break down and go on Ebay and buy one of the 100 sq. ft. deals there.

Todds69
03-13-2005, 02:37 AM
69Rathead....The reason you may not find it in AZ is because the peal 'n seal is usually used for ice damning issues. They should be able to order you some.

Todds69
03-13-2005, 01:10 PM
Here we go 69Rathead....Lowes has it under item #154017 and model #PS625 which ever they need for you to order. Called Peel & Seal 6"x25' for $12.47...Good Luck

68BNUT
03-13-2005, 06:49 PM
Hey dennis68 hows the smell in your car after a week??? update please haha

Happyfunballs
03-13-2005, 06:58 PM
Just an update fellas. I purchased the Fatmat kit from fatmat.com, and their "fast shipping" took three weeks. I called/sent emails numerous times. My package arrived without the "kit" part. For $129.99(after shipping), I've got two rolls of mat. I'm missing the roller, cleaner, knife, etc. The following is the final email I sent them:

Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: FatMat Order Tracking Information


I received my order today after a 3-4 week delay. Having ordered a "kit" at the onset of this adventure, I find that my order, upon receipt, wasn't a "kit" at all. I received two rolls of the sound deadener in a 1 of 1 box.....that is all. I'm missing the roller, instructions, cleaner, and knife.....the key ingredients to the "kit".

When I first called about the lack of attention to my order(after multiple calls and emails....approx. two weeks later) I spoke with a gentlemen that assured me that "I was in good hands." It appears that these "good hands" forgot to place the rest of the "kit" in the box to be shipped.

Please put the balance of the "kit", that you failed to send me, in a box and overnight it to my shipping address. This is the least you could do after the lack of attention you have shown my order. I have also left you a voice mail.

RB



Needless to say I still haven't received the balance of my kit, and the overnight didn't happen. I would think twice about ordering from fatmat.com.

Radio Joe
03-15-2005, 01:48 PM
Im waiting to hear the results too. I checked out the stuff at home depot a little while ago and it seemed to smell a bit when I poked a hole in the plastic it was wrapped in. Seemed kinda thin too. I think the package said .04 while dynamat is .07.

There was some stuff I received some samples of from a roofing company a while back... Again it was similar to Dynamat and came in different colors. The stuff had a much lower temp range and the thought was if you used it on something like a door panel it may "melt" and sag in higher temps.

king67rsss
03-16-2005, 09:45 AM
I finally found the Peel and Seal at our local home depot and installed it in my car. On the floors and ceiling I also put a layer of jute padding over the peel and seal with spray adhesive. The difference is amazing. Just to see the difference between the peel and seal and Dynamat, I took a small piece over to a car audio place and they told me what I had was dynamat, so I guess if they can't tell the difference then that's pretty good. There is no noticable smell, but I did also install new carpet, door panels and headliner so the odors from those may be over powering the asphalt smell although there was never an offensive odor when I just had the peel and seal down.

king67rsss
03-16-2005, 09:47 AM
Oh and thanks for all the help. The information here saved a significant amount of money over Dynamat for the same results

sunkistcamaro
03-16-2005, 10:13 AM
I have some sitting in my garage waiting to hear that.
Thanks

Radio Joe
03-16-2005, 02:02 PM
in reviewing all th ecar audio posts it seems that it is okay to use on a floor but there have been alot of problems with it sticking to the roof.. I may still use some on the floors, but I will buy something stronger for the roof and doors/quarters.

One guy said when it hit 90f+ he looked under his carpet and found small trickles of molten material... I dont wanna risk it.

You can get 120sqft of Edead on Ebay for 100bucks.

dennis68
03-16-2005, 04:53 PM
OK, it's been about 10 days now since I installed the peel and stick. The asphalt type odor lasted about 3-4 days of sitting in the sun with the windows up. Now it is all but gone; no scent of any kind from the floor sealer. I was somewhat disappointed with the level of sound deadening, it deficiently does do something but with 2.5" exhaust dumps less than 3" from the hole in the tunnel for the shifter (not finished yet) I had hoped to cut down a some of the noise. It will be interesting to see how it helps with the 2-chamber drone once the exhaust gets finished.

third base
04-15-2005, 10:36 AM
I have been skimming this thread and I have to say, whoa! Please, nobody use the stuff from home depot, all of that stuff is tar based and when it heats up it can slide around. i.e. the roof. it is only intended for outdoor use around windows and such. it isn't even a very good sound deadner. FAT MAT on the other hand is much like DYNAMAT (Lead based, that's how it gets it's effectivness) but they use less material so when you use fat mat u have to use twice as much to get the affectivness of dynamat. I personally know people who have used fatmat in their car and they say that you have to even triple it to get the same effectivness as dynamat. I do alot of custom stereo's for friends and the only thing I put in their cars is Dynamat Extreme. though I get bulk packs at 100 a pop so I am pretty well hooked up when it comes to that. sound deadening material is just like everything else in life. you pay for what you get. my adivice is get some dynamat off of ebay and bite the bullet. you won't be dissapointed.
P.S. i contacted Fat mat a while back (months ago)and asked them some questions comparing them to Dynamat. I never got a reply. go figure?

Steve1968LS2
04-15-2005, 12:21 PM
Update..

Well as you know I dynamated my 69 (Xtreme).. when my interior guy did the rest he also put down the thicker sound absorbing Dynamat in the footwells.. then he glued in my OEM carpet (with Jute) and then put down the custom carpet.

At first I was a little ticked he did that with the OEM carpet but man o man.. the interior sounded so nice and solid.. it was still loud when you got on it but no vibrations or rattles.

You can buy dynamat extreme on ebay all day long for $100.. :)

USAZR1
04-15-2005, 03:25 PM
Can someone give us an eBay link for the Dynomat packs?

third base
04-15-2005, 05:22 PM
Ya what you want to put put over the dynamat extreme is a product by dynamat called TAC MAT or the best way to go ( more expensive) is Dynaliner. These are both carpet pad substitutes. Huge difference when you do this. If anybody is reading this and interested in these products I can tell you where to get it incredibly cheap. Have to be willing to drive to Sac., California.

Tom Welch
04-15-2005, 07:23 PM
I believe that product like Dynamat work well if used as originally intended. If I am correct this would be vibration control, not noise in general. Peel-n-seal seems to work well enough. I have found vibration damper available in 36" x 36" pieces from a few specialty wholesalers. The noise control and temp control come in the form of jute or closed/open cell foam products. Some come laminated on 1 or both sides. Depending on how much you know about heat reflection/conduction these products work IF installed correctly. Most of this stuff is installed for looks before performance. As some know I have decided to assemble a kit of the best performing products available from whoever sells/manufactures it. So far I have found 3 areas to concentrate on. Vibration damping, heat control, and noise control. Also have found 3 products that fit the bill very well. The no name vibration damper is the same as a well known one. The heat and sound control stuff comes in several forms. Jute and closed cell foam products are the most effective per dollar. I believe that I can assemble and offer for sale a kit that will work for a 1st gen f-body for about 300.00 plus s&h. A complete kit with all tapes, adhesives and except for the vibration damper cut to fit. What do y'all think?

third base
04-15-2005, 07:35 PM
Personally that sounds good but I would like to know what products the kit will consist of. I won't put anything in my car that is tar or urethane based. scientifically the best for vibration control is a lead based product. as for sound dampening the foam works very well. but it has to be able to work in high heat areas. not many materials on the market say that you can use their product in high heat areas.

69Rathead
04-15-2005, 08:31 PM
This same conversation or most of the questions and comments in this thread has been in other threads on http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/index.php and other places. Go on Car audio.com and do a search on "Tar" also do the "peel and seal", "Dynamat", "Asphalt", "Butyl" search...very interesting. Some people who claim to be installers recommend and like using "peel and seal" some don't but people are using it and discussing it...ALOT! Just like this thread. Also people complain about the tar or asphalt smell of Fatmat as well as many other popular sound deadening materials including the "Original" Dynamat which is also asphalt based not Butyl like the extreme. This tells me they are almost all asphalt based with the exception of the butyl ones and therefore probably pretty close to the same in sound deadening based on the thickness/density. A concensus seems to be to use a spray on for the roof area. From what I've read on the forums the following are ASPHALT: Original Dynamat, Fatmat, Brownbread, Edead v1, and probably a few others. BUTYL: Dynamat extreme, Second skin Damplifier. Also go to this link: http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showthread.php?t=93892&page=2&pp=15&highlight=butyl and see the post by Acousticguitar posting up another original post by SIN that contains the following info:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by SiN
I have been in the game for a while now, working mostly with laminate adhesives for the sealant and gasket industry. Which on occasion crosses over in to he damper industry OEM and aftermarket. Here is what my findings include.
R-blox, Rammat, edead, and b-quiet ultra (formerly brown bread) are all the same product from the same company in different thicknesses.
Fatmat, b-quiet extreme come out of the same plant too, but are a different mixture adhesives.
Accumat by Scoches comes from another company in California that gets their products from overseas.
Peal and seal is roofing product not usually recommended for cars but does the job for most people.
Dynamat laminates their materials in house as does, hushmat. Mostly OEM for the big 3 and overseas.
Madmat buys from Hushmat and private labels it.
Second Skin buys from overseas and from a company called OEM Dampers for private label.
Same with stinger, which also buys from Quiet solutions and OEM Dampers
OEM Dampers does a lot of private label material but only advertises for their line of liquids. Mostly military OEM. If you want are a big enough customer you can buy from OEM Dampers line of bituminous and butyl mats, otherwise its all paint on resins like Select Products blue goo and Dead Skin for Fosgate and Stealthkote. But they do mat at their overseas facilities.
Cascade also makes some of their own products but also imports.
I don't know about dead beat or magic mat though.
The best out of those are butyl mats. Bituminous mats are cheap but have high VOC's due to the asphlat fillers and can be toxic and are always temperature dependant.
hushmat
dynamat extreme
secondskin (though it sounds bit like a touchy subject)
cascade
that would ne my picks
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry to take up so much room but I thought it was interesting...but I have not verified any of it! Probably won't bother too either...think I'll just fork out the cash for Dynamat or Fatmat.

Tom Welch
04-16-2005, 05:35 PM
Third Base, I haven't found any tar or urethane products that I would want to use in my own car either. Samples will be available soon of the chosen products,msds ,too.

dennis68
04-16-2005, 07:32 PM
Project "Peel and Stick" update:

I pulled it all out today. I was welding the new tunnel I built and got tired of the floor moving around under me. The smell was totally gone after a few days and it did very well at sound deadening, I just didn't care for its warm climate characteristics. I would imagine after a 100 mile trip in 115* heat that it would just be a mess.

Continuing my quest for sound deadening material without paying for Dynamat’s name.

69Rathead
04-16-2005, 09:16 PM
Thanks for the Update Dennis. I live in Phoenix so I have decided not to put down anything other than extra Jute padding at this time. I can see it squishing around under me in this heat. I have even decided against Dynamat and Fatmat as well. No Asphalt based stuff for me. The key is Vibration damping, heat control, and noise control as Tom said above. To slow the Vibration down you need mass attached to the vibrating panel...thus weight is needed Ie: Asphalt or Lead...something heavy that is stuck to the vibrating surface. Weight is the drawback and is expensive and Asphalt/tar has it's drawbacks as well. If you live in a colder area you are probably o.k. with some of the products but you are hosed with it in Phoenix/warmer areas during summer. Good Luck Buddy and Thanks for being the "Test" subject.

dennis68
04-17-2005, 08:59 PM
Google to the recue!!! I started my quest at the local part store where I found a few cans of Duplicolor rubberized sealer. It lays on real nice and thick. I sprayed a bunch on some junk panels to peled it off later, very light weight for how thick it is.

Then I searched Google....McMaster/Carr to the rescue. Foil backed foam with a NRC rating of .70 (1 is the highest available anywhere). 31.00 shipped for a little over 12 sq ft.

I'll post some pics when I get it, here is the floor paint after tacking down my trans tunnel.floor pic (http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/floor3.jpg) No welding jokes, you try welding to triple reinforced sheetmetal with a layer of sealer between each coat. Splater city.

Fuelie Fan
04-18-2005, 05:18 PM
what about jokes concering that shift knob? Is that off limits? :)

McMaster is a man's best friend

dennis68
04-18-2005, 07:41 PM
Shifter knob was a gift from my wife...it's staying.

dennis68
04-24-2005, 01:05 PM
UPDATE..... I received the foam from McMaster; it's pretty thick but only weights about 5 lbs for the whole roll. It made a HUGE difference in NVH, I find myself driving much more aggressively (yeah, it's possible) due to the decreased noise form the engine. More than once I have glanced at the tach and thought "Crap, I must be doing over 100MPH, better slow down". Way quieter inside.

Picture (http://www.geocities.com/[email protected]/images/soundfoam.jpg)

MarkM66
04-24-2005, 01:28 PM
Dennis,

Can you provide a link, or pn for that product?

How thick is it?

69Rathead
04-24-2005, 03:22 PM
Yeah a link or name of it please. Sounds like just what we need. Appreciate all the info you have provided thus far.

dennis68
04-24-2005, 05:29 PM
It's 1" thick (very compress able) part #5692T52. It's technical name is "Flat sound absorbing foam, adhesive back, foil-faced, 1" thick, 54" width".

Here is a link (http://www.mcmaster.com/) to McMaster's site. Type in "sound absorbing" into the search bar and it will come up.

10.53/foot. I bought 3 feet and it almost covered, I wish I would have bought another 2 feet. I would order a little long to be sure.

Tom Welch
04-24-2005, 07:06 PM
did you get an msds with the product? I'm curious about the urethane content of this product. Also is Polyether safe to breathe?

dennis68
04-24-2005, 08:26 PM
Nope, didn't request one. Google reveals that many aucoutic companies install it in homes for sound proofing so I would imagine it's OK.

Also out this stuff, 9709T25 . It is a NON asphalt based dampner. It rates .21 on the DLF scale. The heaviest stuff they sell is .34. Asphalt based stuff is only .10-.13. I may peel back the foam to apply this under it.

Check out catalog page 3270 in the online catalog....it goes into very good detail the different types of sound reduction products and how they are rated.

Tom Welch
04-25-2005, 07:28 PM
The product that you have may work well but unless it is sealed completely I recommend further research. The foam is a polyether polyurethane. At temperatures over 350 degrees (unlikely) toxic fumes are generated. Health hazard data reveals that inhalation and eye irritation can occur from dusting of the foam and from thermal degradation/decomposition. The msds says all this. It sucks but I dont believe that this foam is the safest stuff to use.

dennis68
04-25-2005, 08:23 PM
If it gets 350* on the floor then the car is on fire anyways....Breathing the foam won't be a problem as my ass will be long gone.

JoshStratton
04-26-2005, 04:28 AM
Be careful with that foam. Don't put it anywhere where moisture can collect. You could end up with rust hidden under it and you wont know it is there until your feet are popping through the floor boards. This is why I like Dynomat/and other companies that use the tacky pads with aluminum. You get a good seal. If you have bubbles you cant get out, use an exacto-knife to cut a small crease to let the air out and then press it in. It should seal itself, but you can use glue or sealant if you are worried about moisture there. Also, it has the aluminum cover which also works as a moisture barrier....kinda like the plastic covering on your higher-end carpet pads (anyone want a dog?).

I have used it many times before. I put $500 worth of the stuff in my last VW Bug :pat:

I am replacing the door skins on my 79 TA and put Dynomat on the skin before I welded them in. It is so freggin amazing how well that stuff works. The door sounds like fiberglass or plasic now.

69boo307
04-26-2005, 04:35 AM
I use 'Peel and Seal', get it at your local roofing supply place. They use it to seal/soundproof mobile homes. It basically is DynaMat, or at least it's where they got the idea for DynaMat. The main difference is that you can buy enough to cover every inch of your interior for about 1/5 the price of Dynamat. I believe it is asphalt-based, but has pretty much no odor. I did the entire interior of my '02 camaro with it, and it didn't smell at all.

JoshStratton
04-26-2005, 04:40 AM
I use 'Peel and Seal', get it at your local roofing supply place.
I have wanted to try that. Maybe I will put some in my Jeep this summer since I won't have that as long as my TA. I wanted to see what happens to it when it is allowed to remain in a sweltering summer car. I wonder if the smell becomes stronger.

Tom Welch
04-26-2005, 02:40 PM
The butyl rubber stuff is the best as far as smell goes. If applied properly it wont come out without a fight. As far as rust goes, POR 15 or equivalent should solve that problem before it starts. If there is a polyethelyne foam product available then that would be safe. Thats the same material used for drink containers and pipes for potable water etc. I plan to use it when I find a manufacturer that has some available to test for the insulation kit project I have posted about in the past.

TheRoaringEagle
05-04-2005, 08:21 AM
Hey STEVE1969LS1 I was reading the posts and saw that you did your whole interior in dynamat xtreme. I want to do the same but you mentioned that it's stil loud inside? My car is really loud inside right now, no interior and holes in the firewall, also it gets hot. But was there an improvement at least? I want it quiet enough so I can put some speakers in my kickpanels and be able to hear them and at least a medium volume setting.

Thanks!

Tom Welch
05-04-2005, 10:31 AM
Eagle, you will need some sound insulation products. The Dynamat and similar products dont do much for sound reduction or for heat reduction. Those types of materials are mainly for vibration dampening. Didnt mean to get the jump on Steve, but I was here.

TheRoaringEagle
05-04-2005, 06:08 PM
Well how should approach this? I ordered the bulk Dynamat Xtreme and I'm starting to clean up the floorpans. Is there a secret combination of sound deadner, sound insulation, and heat protection/insulation?
I saw some sound insulation products in the NPD Camaro catalog. One isthe factory sound deadner. The other is an 'aerospace' style that reduces noise up to 60 decibels. It seems like a Dynamat imitation. Could I use the factory insulation over the Dynamat Xtreme? Is there any wrong in stacking different types of deadners and insulations over each other?

Is TAC MAT a good sound insulation product? What are good examples of sound insulators if Dynamat and TAC MAT are not?

Thanks for the reply!!

Tom Welch
05-05-2005, 02:02 PM
Well, its no secret, just a challenge to find a lightweight, flexible, waterproof sound absorber and insulation product all rolled into 1. I have found 2 products that will work for this and am making it part of the insulation package I've been working on. I will offer a dynamat alternative in widths of 36" AND 24" and a LOT less expensive than the 'branded' stuff. If you are interested in this I will also be offering bulk quantities of these products.

69Rathead
05-05-2005, 06:29 PM
I think this forum is great! I like the purity of it! I like the fact that we can come here and avoid all the advertisements etc. that come with trying to find products/combos that work and can share info and help eachother out without feeling like every where we turn somebody is trying to make a buck off of us! :yeah:

TheRoaringEagle
05-06-2005, 11:35 AM
yeah hey, i just wanted to know what products would work. anyone else know of a combination that will help insulate and deaden sound and heat in a killer way? ;) i already have bulk dynamat xtreme and was thinking bout TAC MAT for the firewall and transmission tunnel, mixed with factory insulation on top...?

69Rathead
05-06-2005, 06:55 PM
Eagle..Read through the entire thread lots of info with good links to research. I know Dennis used some stuff recently that may help when added with the Dynamat you bought. Could be little thick though. But he commented that it compresses pretty good. Thanks to lots of people contibuting we have alot of useful info to go through.

69protour
05-09-2005, 08:02 AM
Hey Tom, I'm ready for the products anytime now. If you've got something going let me know whats available from you. I've been looking at a lot of different products and if you've got some good combinations of heat and sound deadners I'll gladly get it from you. Let me know soon. Thanks much Trond

Steve1968LS2
05-09-2005, 08:56 AM
Real popular in the rod market is a stuff like looks like high density jute on one side with a foil layer on the other side.. it is non-adhesive and goes between the floor and the carpet. (about 1 inch thick)..

This would work pretty well in conjuction with a sound "deadener" product like dynamat or simular (since it doesn't absorb sound, only vibration).

Tom Welch
05-09-2005, 04:36 PM
69Protour, you have mail

Tom Welch

WS6
05-10-2005, 06:24 PM
use dynamat or an equivalent like b-quiet extreme on the panels themself to cut down on rattles and vibration from speakers or exhaust. then cover it with jute backing that you can get at a carpet store or home depot i think has it. together this will work well and not cost and arm and a leg. well unless you use dynamat. bquiet is much cheaper. i used this combination on my 96 formula and had very good results. yes i am sure there is stuff out there that is engineered to be better, but do you really want your car to be that quiet inside? the engineered stuff will cost much more as well. the jute will soak up water though. if your getting water in the car id be more worried about how it got there than whether the jute is soaking it up or not. the jute can easily be removed and dried out.

the spray on stuff works good too, but not in aerosole form. youd need to get the spray gun and the gallon bucket of the gunk and spray it on that way. the aerosole stuff simply does not apply the material thick enough to do any good.

also keep in mind that technically you dont need to cover ever inch with the asphault stuff only setions of a flat panel. at least this is what everyone's directions will tell you. so if trying to keep costs down is a priority keep that in mind.

69protour
05-10-2005, 06:37 PM
Tom, You've got mail...

Tom Welch
05-13-2005, 05:31 PM
Gentlemen, as some know I have been trying to assemble an insulation package for us protouring types. Well I have a couple of products in mind that can effectively insulate, attenuate ( deaden sound) and dampen some vibration. This is 1 product. It is expensive. About 12.00 per square foot. It is proven beyond any reasonable doubt to me. Boeing uses it in some applications. The military also. Is this of any interest to any one? I am still trying to finalize product selections for a kit that is cost conscious, but I had to tell somebody about this one.

69Rathead
05-13-2005, 05:52 PM
Sounds interesting, got any links or a product name?

perry mitchell
05-13-2005, 07:25 PM
I'm interested. I have been following your links and it all sounds good to me. Tom, please hurry.

sunkistcamaro
05-14-2005, 08:41 AM
Hi guys,
I just wanted to tell your guys that I bought the stuff from Homedepot yesterday. It seemed fairly light and no noticable smell. I haven't gotten the car out in the sun yet.. The best part was that it was $50 for 100 sq. ft.

Tom Welch
05-15-2005, 10:30 AM
Bill, are you talking about the pee-n-seel? If so I believe that it will work as good as any branded product that looks similar. The trick is to find the high vibration areas in your particular car. I conducted an experiment with that and Dynamat. The results were very similar. I had no test equipment for this test so I got my co-workers to look at, touch, and try to detect any odor from either product. Once installed both seemed to work alike, no smell either.

69Rathead
05-16-2005, 12:37 AM
Check out this link for a NUPRENE SOUND DEADENER used by BOEING I found on Ebay or you can also do your own searches on google or whatever. I think it is actually made of Neoprene. If anyone has a good cheap source for this stuff or one like it with adhesive backing please don't hesitate for 1 post to help us fellow forum buddies out and let us know...as that is what this forum is all about. I calculate it out to be about $15/sqft at Buy it now price so you know they get it for probably far less than $12 to still make a killing on it. If I find a wholesale source for it I'll certainly post it! But I won't be able to do much searching for a few days so maybe all of us together can find some great sources. Ain't the internet great!!! THX! :fingersx: Link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=42612&item=7974973610&rd=1

Tom Welch
05-16-2005, 04:46 PM
I checked the ebay listing for this product, the buy it now price including shipping is 2.07 per sqft. They are selling 15.27 sqft pieces. I havent seen much on this type of sound deadener, yet. I'll contact my secret mole at General Dynamics and see what he says about neoprene. I bet it would work pretty good if properly adhered to the surface it is being applied to. That will be the key.

69Rathead
05-16-2005, 08:46 PM
Thanks Tom, sorry about my error...forgot to divide the Sq ft. by price! Makes a huge difference in price!:pat: LOL Yes...adhesion would be the key...should not be a problem on the floor but other areas could be an issue...I may end up going with this stuff as it should work well ...at least on the floors. I think I can find out where he gets it from. Boeing has a flight test center at Edwards AFB in the Mojave (High desert) where my brother in law is stationed. He has allot of contacts and may be able to find out or put me in touch with someone. Matter of fact this guy may be working on the base there.

Tom Welch
05-17-2005, 04:58 PM
I'd like to see just how this stuff would be used in an aircraft. I have seen no reference anywhere to neoprene being used in an aircraft in mat form. Maybe its used by maintenance crews to avoid slipping on wings, etc. I beleive it is mainly used in gaskets and O-rings. Come to think of it, maybe its a big sheet of gasket material. I would stick with the peel-n-seal. Its cheap, and it works.

69Rathead
05-17-2005, 08:10 PM
Could possibly be gasket material...but I kind of doubt it. I work maintenance and have seen similar stuff used inside of equipment to quiet it and as a dark background to allow you to see dropped parts and to help catch them as well. In an aircraft a dropped screw can bring the aircraft down so if maintenance guy drops one he has to let superiors know, file reports, and the aircraft is grounded indefinitely until it is found. I'm sure this is just sound absorbing stuff though. I don't know why you don't just mention what it is you are using. I would be more inclined to support your package and even give helpful feedback on it (as i'm sure other members would too) as that is what this and most forums are for...INFO. Either way someone will find out what it is sooner or later. If you told us and asked us do it your-selfers to give feedback on how it worked you could get allot of feedback and useful info. I'll help you out no problem, as I don't have the interest or the time to try to put something together other than for my own car. If I did "Tuner Jive Mat" would already be on the market!:) If you are worried about competition...then you might as well save yourself the effort as the sound deadening business is very, very competitive already, if your going to do it, just do it and if the interest is there, it is priced fair, and it works you might make it. I don't have a problem with you trying to put a package together...I support you on it. I would simply prefer to do it myself without a middleman as many of us that are sharing info in this forum do. Plenty of other people will prefer to pay up front a price for your package that has been set up and researched to have good sound deadening products and perform well. You should get your package fully together do a write up on it and post it in the for sale section as that is what that forum is for... also you could set up an Ebay business as well. I think all of us here wether we buy it or not will support your package through recommendations...word of mouth etc. etc. If it works well I'll recommend it! I feel this forum is for the info on Dynamat/sound deadeners... not the advertisement or info that you have a package for sale. If everyone just replied back with an ad for the package they had for sale then this whole website and the forums would just be advertisements for products only which we already get too much of on the internet and in magazines. I come here for sharing info not to read ads. Don't mean to offend anyone I'm just being honest.

Tom Welch
05-18-2005, 05:00 PM
Hi 69Rathead,
I hope that you are sucessful with the neoprene. I've not been able to find much on it for vibration control but I guess it would work as well as one of the recognized automotive damper products. The reason I havent provided names of products is because I dont want to be taken to task for a poor performing product. Also most of these are not available to the general public. Just to businesses. I have one of the few remaining full service gas stations in the U.S.. So I have access to several insulation and sound deadener products that are not openly advertised. The acoustical engineer I am corresponding with is working on a couple of products now to finalize the best one for the money spent. By me, or the do it yourselfer. That is once I have decided on the products I will use I will publicize it here. Along with trade names and all other pertinent info. I dont care a bit about competition, thats not why I started this kit stuff in the first place. Its for guys like me who want the best available stuff for the best available price. The products will be available wholesale, too.

dennis68
05-18-2005, 05:40 PM
I have one of the few remaining full service gas stations in the U.S..
[hijack on]

What the hell is a full service gas station? :icon_razz

[/hijack on]

69Rathead
05-18-2005, 09:55 PM
What you have going sounds pretty good. Things are much clearer as I understand your position more. I have some other things to do on my car for now so the sound deadening will wait. I'm trying to get it done under $150 when I get to it which is possible but requires a little shopping around...which I have time for. I will probably be doing the sound deadening in about 6 mos so I will keep an eye on what you end up packaging as it may work great for me...just may have to be careful about the areas/amount etc. I put it down on. For example I won't need it for the roof as I plan to use a spray rubberized undercoating for that...don't want anything drooping down as it gets HOT in Phoenix! I'll contact you by PM at that time and see what we can do. Thanks for the honest reply!

Tom Welch
05-19-2005, 04:19 PM
So Rathead, are you going to use the neoprene? My research indicates that it or peel-n-seal type stuff will both work pretty good for vibration damping. I have decided to concentrate on sound deadener/blocker and thermal insulation. The vibration damping is easy for anyone to do, just go to Home Depot. The insulation/sound deadener/blocker is a little more complex. Many products offer 1 or the other, some both. But very few offer both in a useable configuration that we can use. I definitely dont want rock wool in my car. Or a foam that is a fire risk. Research continues for the Holy Grail of auto insulation. I know its out there.

69Rathead
05-19-2005, 08:31 PM
I don't know for sure...just going to ride it out until I get to that part of project. At that time I'll take a look around and at what weve found (hopefully the "Holy Grail" of sound deadeners by then) and go with something weve found. I don't want to use peel n seal or anything that is Asphalt based as I live in Phoenix and I know that stuff will meltdown in this heat. I agree there is something out there and you should not have to spend crazy prices to deaden sound/vibration.

ProTeal55
05-20-2005, 07:50 AM
Just thought I would post my 2cents on this topic.

I used to work in the car stereo business , and we came across which is the best sounds deadinrer product almost every day. Thw winner always came up Dynamat, for overall value and the way the product performed over time.

I just installed some extreme dynamat inside the dash of my 55 Bel-Air , and I can honestly say it is a night and day difference. I have used the fatman product in the past , and was dissapointed with the results.
The dynamat sticks much better to all sorts of surfaces , weather they be clean or not , where the fatman peeled , had a terribile odor , and left a mess behind.

Overall , I would say Dynamat is the winner ! !

ss dave
05-24-2005, 07:13 AM
i just found this from Casacade Audio Engineering: VB-2 & VB-2HD twice the damping and 1/2 the wt. of asphalt materials(fat-mat). It has stick adhesive backing. They also offer V-Max, a aluminum layer, non-curing butylene rubber pad. Also found VE-1 vinyl sheets for twice damping effect with a leather grain look for those visible areas. i found this stuff after applying my fat mat and looking for speaker boxes.

Tom Welch
05-24-2005, 05:43 PM
Ok, here goes nuthin' I have found some interesting info on sound insulation. It goes like this. In order to stop sound from coming into the cabin of a vehicle there are a couple of options for effective insulation. First, insulate the firewall from the engine compartment side. This is the correct way to do this. A foil facing with 1/4" foam then a noise barrier (solid layer 1/8" thick, like hard rubber) then about 3/4" sound absorbing foam, this is 1 effective way to seriuosly dampen interior noise. Another is to start with reinforced foil facing on the noise barrier which covers 1" of sound absorbing foam. This looks real good, would make a really neat firewall. The second option is to insulate from the inside starting with some vibration damper. I dont recommend covering the whole car with this type of product, just about half of the interior, evenly spaced pieces, works just as good. Less expensive, too. Aluminum faced high temp foam with or without a psa works very well here. On the under side of the body in strategic areas apply a heat shield, aluminum faced fiberglass or silica matting. Also nonwoven material in the form of fiberglass or silica with 9 micron sized fibers, (non-respirable) can be used inside the cab to insulate effectively against heat provided that aluminum is on both sides of the mat. I have read several articles about how some rod shops do this. They follow the looks is better than function school. It seems like that anyway. Using Lizardskin first then a heatshield and then foil covered jute is just plain wasteful. The Lizardskin dampens vibration, put this on the inside of the car first, then the foil covered jute. Put the heatshield where it will do something. on the firewall or under the floor between the floor and exhaust. Logic works, looks are fine but performance trumps looks anyday, especially after the upholstery is in place. In order to have a nice smoothed firewall, care must be taken to avoid ineffective insulation application. Most insulation for sound deadening is made to go in the engine compartment area, hence the aluminum facing for heat reflection. The foam absorbs sound waves, the sound blocker does just that, blocks sound waves, reflecting them back at the source. Put on backward it does almost nothing. The products used inside the cab have a different composition and a layered approach is needed. This is what most people already do, but with incorrect products for the application. Foam works inside the cab very well if made for the interior of a vehicle, carpeting over the foam, fiberglass, jute, whatever, adds a little more. One thing I have found to be true for me. A quiet car isn't hot and a noisy car isnt cool. I recommend an aluminum facing for durability and to keep moisture out. I believe the best way to thermally and acoustically insulate a car is to use a heat shield on the firewall and above the exhaust, then vibration damper on the interior floor and doors and other areas of vibration. Topped with a heat resistant foam about an inch thick with a foil facing. This should prove effective for most applications. Double the foam on the firewall interior if needed to absorb the noise. More to come.

Jagarang
05-25-2005, 04:27 AM
Finally, some information that sounds reasonable without allot of "marketing" hype and mumbo jumbo. The insulation on the engine side of the firewall will likely be a wash with most of our cars, we try to make the firewalls look to pretty to cover them with a foil/foam insulator. In inner side information is intriguing indeed. One of my concerns is thickness of the material overall, and interference with various structures. 2 inches sounds like allot of room to squeeze out of an area that's already tight. It seems like its time to take another look at things under the dash to refresh my memory.

Tom...
When you mention, "covering about half of the interior with strategically placed pieces", I assume this would mean an X by Y sized square in the middle of a panel. Any idea yet what sized piece or approximately what ratio of applied product to surface area might be most effective? Is it as simple as covering 50% of the available surface area/panel? As we all know this stuff can get "heavy" and the possibility of not having to cover every inch of the interior with it could potentially save ALOT of poundage, not to mention the cost factor; which you have already mentioned. Foam sounds "lighter", both on the pocket and in the car, than the other materials currently available, as long as we can fit it where it needs to go.

Are you still thinking of offering a "kit" form of these types of products, and any prospectus on when they might become available?

Tom Welch
05-25-2005, 03:09 PM
Jagarang, you are right about the firewall issue. The outside will be detailed and the space on the inside will be limited. All of this is a study in compromise anyway. As for the vibration damper if you measure a section of floor, say the pass side front footwell. For example lets say 24"x24" half of this area is 12"x12". put this as close as possible to the center of the panel measured. That should do it. The flatter and smoother a panel is the more it will tend to vibrate. The stiffening ribs that are seen in the floor of your car lessen the vibration of the panel at certain frequencies. This is a good thing. The vibration damper that you add will absorb some of the vibration and convert it to heat. Not noticeable. The foam works great but there are drawbacks, too. Foam that is open celled will absorb water and become useless until dry, just like most insulation will. The exception to this is natural wool fibers. I dont see wool becoming the next big insulator for cars, besides, it won't stop sound. The firewall is the biggest area of concern for noise supression. Foam here would probably work very well when sealed properly. Foam is sometimes lighter on the pocket, but not always. Not always lighter in weight either. I have experimented with quite a few foams and durability under carpet is the biggest issue I have found. For the roof and package tray and firewall it is ideal. The doors too. The floor is another thing. Still working on this one. The best solution yet is heat shield under the floor, vibration damper on the inside of the floor, followed by a foil/mylar covered material yet to be determined. Maybe, inspite of what I said yesterday jute type material may be the best compromise for this area. Still working details on the kit.

ss dave
05-26-2005, 06:47 AM
OK, thanks Tom. Personal and recent experience. I have a 69 Camaro convrt. just redid the interior. I placed Fat mat over the entire floorboard, except on top of the console area, then tripple jute pad on the footfall areas. Fat mat on the inner door skins and door panels, this made the doors "thunk" when shut, they sound solid and heavy. Fat mat on the panels inside the kickers and the entire trunk along with a layer of jute and carpet. Didn't have any issues with shipping(except a UPS mistake) or smell, app. was easy. As mentioned above there maybe better products and you may use less material but the bottom line is it made a world of difference! even in a vert. No squeaks, rattles. I'm pleased with the outcome.

Jagarang
05-26-2005, 09:03 AM
One of my concerns with the doors and using Fat Mat/Dynamat Etc. is that the hinges already hate life with just the door's weight. This eventually affects function and body gaps. The less weight I can put in there, the better.

ss dave
05-26-2005, 10:05 AM
I agree. I made sure my door wedges are functional, keep the hinges well lubed and maintained. Overall added weight to the doors with fat mat was approx. 1.6#, i believe this is but a fraction of the entire door weight. I know what you are saying however, since I replaced a worn drivers door hinge on my 98 Tahoe. But with that in mind: I love the sound of the door when it shuts! It gives the car a solid sound that exudes a "well built" quaility , a new car feel and sound.

blackbeast
05-29-2005, 07:20 PM
here's what i did about 2 years ago when i redid the interior on my S-10 blazer. Imagine a box on wheels vibrating with a 350 and 2.5 dual dynomax mufflers.

I too couldn't afford, and didn't want to pay for dynamat, way too expensive, and i knew there had to be a better alternative.
anyways, b-quiet used to offer a roll on plastic type deadner that seemed to satisfy vibration dampening. i rolled on about 2 coats of that and then added insulating foam with a aluminum heat liner from i believe Jc Whitney of all places ( i think it was 3/8 in thick) I also added another layer of factory sound deadning from a donor blazer and then new carpet. Since I had the dash out, i used the B-quiet rollon stuff, and a layer of dynamat b/c there was no room for anything else.

The difference was quite amazing, and this thing is dead quite cruising down the freeway 70mph, 1,100 RPM. I was told by a sound-guru friend that coating the cieling would also add a great deal to vibration dampening but the pain of pulling down the headliner again stopped me from doing that.

summary:
I spent around $70-90 and was able to significantly reduce sound (especially exhaust drone) on and S-10 blazer, which i would think would be much more difficult than the average muscle car.

Tom Welch
05-30-2005, 06:39 PM
I did some testing today and the results are interesting. I evaluated some heat shielding that was a peel and stick product advertised to be effective to 1000 degrees. It was tested with direct and indirect heat once placed upon a metal panel. This was the most scientific of tests. My stove, a piece of sheet metal, some peel-n-stick vibration damper and 2 other insulation products for a layered approach just for fun. The direct heat test got up to about 500 degrees. Almost no 'shielding' was noticed. Indirect testing had similar results. The peel-n-stick vibration damper butyl rubber melted and made a sticky mess. The other insulation products did provide some positive results. I tested a nonwoven insulation fabric with aluminum facing that was about 3/8" thick and, a foam insulation with aluminum facing that is about 1" thick. The nonwoven fabric became fairly warm to the touch but was not uncomfortable at all. The foam became slightly warm and was obviously much better at insulating against heat. As for the heat shield it delaminated and began turning black. These test results were done under controlled conditions and the theory that if it burns me its too hot was the standard I used. I did this in my kitchen on my stove. The temps hovered around 500 degrees. The foam will under go some more testing in Dexter's Lab. I will be testing for durability. I have tested for water retention already and both the nonwoven material and the foam failed miserably. Both products absorb water like the thirst a guy running across the desert with his mouth open would have. However, if the foam can be sealed this may not be an issue. More samples of products are coming in and testing continues. It appears that this endeavor may take longer than I predicted. On we go...

69Rathead
06-03-2005, 12:32 AM
Tom...Thanks for all the great info on your last few posts...definitely getting interesting! The testing sounds funny but it seems to me it will be effective. Looking forward to seeing what results you come up with.

Tom Welch
06-03-2005, 04:42 PM
Thanks Rathead, testing is funny and fun, I received a heat pad yesterday that will work, its made of ceramic powder, kind of like space shuttle tiles. Yep, it works. But will be heavy and expensive. But man it stops heat like no other. Not much for vibration damping or sound, though. I need to call these guys about some thinner stuff. They are called Thermodyne. I think their Excelflex product will work good for heat shielding. It will lower temps alot, for example- if the hot side is 1800 degrees the cold side will be 250 degrees. Talk about effective.

Tom Welch
06-13-2005, 03:12 PM
hey eb'body,
I need some info from other than myself and local folks. What temps do you see on an uninsulated area of your firewall and floor? I'm trying to assemble an average temp to work with. I have material that will work well beynd 500 degrees but I dont think that very many will need that sort of range. I think that 300 degrees will probably be the upper limit of the temp range that I will be woking with. Check out solimide foam, give me an opinion about it, please.

Tom Welch
07-04-2005, 07:19 AM
Ok, so no opinions on solimide. No problem, I have decided against it for cost reasons. Melamine foam works as good and is a lot less expensive, too. Recently ran across a headliner foam that has a perforated vinyl skin that closely matched the headliner material from early 2nd gen f-bodies. It works great, had my 67 shell in the sun to test some material and the headliner foam definitely does the job. Best of all its 1 product that can insulate and finish the interior roof area. Its made by dB engineering.

USAZR1
07-04-2005, 11:30 AM
Just curious but has anyone have any experience with the spray-on bedliner material? I've been hearing some of the streetrod guys are having their interiors and undercarriages shot with this stuff. It's not very thick so you could add jute padding and carpeting over the top of it. What are your opinions about its effectiveness inside a car?

third base
07-04-2005, 06:20 PM
I did Mortons spray on bed liner on my 69' camaro. I did the trunk, underbody, and floorboards. I am still going to use Dynamat though. If I were to do it over again i would have saved up more money and had it done in Line-x. Much more thicker and more durable. The Mortons does look really good on the underbody though.

Question for Tom...should I still do the floorboards in Dynamat over the bedliner? I want do the roof, firewall, doors, and behind trim panels and need to know if I should order more. the metal is sandwhiched on the floorboards with Mortons bed liner as of now. Thanks

Tom Welch
07-04-2005, 07:25 PM
If you have both sides covered in the bed liner, I dont believe that Dynamat or anything else will improve on what you have. The vibration damper wont do much unless it is in direct contact with the sheet metal. I havent tested any of the spray on stuff so I'm taking a guess here. The questions I have about the bedliner that I havent much info on is what temp will it withstand on a continuous basis. Also how much does it weigh once cured? What thickness is needed for good vibration damping? Is it the same as the spray on damper? I have decided not to use this for vibration damping since it will be difficult to regulate the thickness when spraying. The peel and stick damper will be a better choice in the event of body damage to doors, fenders, etc.

third base
07-04-2005, 08:28 PM
Thanks, that is what I thought. I asked the temp. question to Mortons and they said that it would withstand 350+ degrees. I hope they are right because I will be firing it within the next month.

Next question, I was thinking of using Dynamat's Tac Mat for sound dampening. I want my car to sound like a new luxury vehicle (when I have the windows down) as I drive down the freeway. Is there something cheaper (foam)that I can get that does just as good as job if not better. And where should I put it. Maybe me interior guy can get it for me??? what do you think?

As for the bed liner it is pretty light, urethane based, and pretty easy to shoot and get the proper thickness. I have used dynamat's spray and it is very brittle. I think it sucks! Mortons is much better. My painter also does alot of fiberglass bodied cobras and he uses the same product (mortons) to stiffen up the bodies so I think it should be a great vibration dampener. not as cheap as peel n' seal though. about 200 bucks in bed liner for the underbody of my camaro. 400 when you add the floorboards and trunk.

Tom Welch
07-05-2005, 03:06 PM
I would suggest acoustical foam for the firewall and inside the doors as well as the roof. for the floor a high density foam will work pretty good. Melamine for the firewall since it doesnt burn. Also the underside of the hood can be insulated with a foil faced foam that will do alot for quieting the cars interior. If you need help finding this stuff let me know. As for the spray on damper, if you use it somewhere besides the floor I suggest only the roof area. If you ever get dents in your doors/quarters you will regret the spray on stuff. The peel and stick damper That is a high density product unlike all of the commonly used stuff is best here. It will dramatically reduce resonance of the panels it is attached to and will pull away without the mess of spray on or Dynamat type dampers.

third base
07-05-2005, 03:55 PM
i am using Dynamat extreme on doors and roof. Is roof ok to put dynamat on? and any other trim panels. where can I get the foam needed? How much is this going to cost me?

USAZR1
07-05-2005, 05:26 PM
Tom,would it be possible for you to post some links or photos of some of this stuff you're recommending?

Tom Welch
07-05-2005, 07:22 PM
Third Base, put it where you want to, it sticks, it stays. A useful site is E.A.R. specialty composites. Also Polymer Technologies Inc.

USAZR1
07-05-2005, 07:39 PM
Useful if you're an accoustic engineer,I guess. Most of what I read on those sites went right over my head,Tom. :pat:

Tom Welch
07-06-2005, 05:23 PM
I'm no engineer but these sites fairly represent the real deal in acoustical insulation and vibration damping info. The part I like best is that they offer a no BS approach to solving sound and vibration problems.

Fuelie Fan
01-26-2006, 09:58 AM
Was any more work done on this kit?

Jagarang
01-26-2006, 11:17 AM
I'm at a critical point now as well, and need any help with this stuff that I can get! Tom?

ss dave
01-29-2006, 07:06 PM
I didn't read all this post but let me add that I used FatMat on my convert and it made alot of difference in the ride quality. The car feels and sounds "more solid". The doors sound better when closed. Easy installation, no smells, good stuff.

TonyHuntimer
02-03-2006, 08:21 AM
I didn't read through all the posts... so I'm sorry if it's a repeat answer...

Thermotec (http://www.thermotec.com/) (the company that makes header wrap) has come out with acoustic mat that is much like Dynamat...without the expense of Dynamat. They sell it in all sizes, including a 30 foot roll for shop use.

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com
________________
Pro-Touring is like a box of chocolates

rohrt
02-03-2006, 02:50 PM
Holy crap that was a long read. I'm getting close to needing somthing also. Tom how is the progress?

69Rathead
02-03-2006, 06:16 PM
Have not read in this thread for awhile...thanks for the Thermo-tec post...I'm going to go with it as it is reasonably priced and looks to be comparable to Dynamat.

BA.
02-04-2007, 09:16 PM
^^bump^^

anyone have any new input on the subject?

Seems like FatMat and LizardSkin have favorable experience here.

My buddy in the audio business just mentioned HushMat to me. It seems to have a large following as well. (at least for sound, not sure if they offer the heat-resistant stuff.

Gotta research them some more....

I'll be ready to buy something soon!

blackwidow
02-05-2007, 10:51 AM
i seen somebody recommend this place www.rammaudio.com, price seems good. mike

fladoans
02-05-2007, 11:56 AM
Yes I used Rammat also, both the sound deadening mat and the acostical foam. Give Rick at Rammat a call great people to work with the price is reasonable.

TannerSup
02-17-2007, 05:58 PM
I bought Dynamat in bulk from Ebay and the cost was about 1/2 of what my local dealer was charging. The results are good. I installed two layers in the door panels. I imagine doing the floor would provide even great results.

The stereo sounds MUCH better and I don't have to crank the volume up all the way anymore for decent listening.

Check out the photos and some great links:

http://chrisgreytak.com/news.htm

BA.
02-20-2007, 03:44 PM
Well, I've read all that I can read, I've talked to everyone, and every company that I needed to and I've made a decision. (no small feat!)

I'll be buying Hushmat!! http://www.hushmat.com/index.html

A. I called Hushmat and Lizardskin people. I got much better answers, and more technical answers from Hushmat. Hushmat also has a large OEM customer base of Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota/Lexus and others. Lizardskin has no manufacturer or large corp. reference at all. (seemed odd)

B. Another selling point: Hushmat should have a much broader temperature range while still giving great results. Lizardskin or similar spray-on product doesn't have the same wide temperature range of flexibility/damping.

c. I can get a discount on Hushmat via a stereo installation shop! :)

D. Logically, at least in MY head, it's just seems like a 1/4" of flexible foamy/rubber/butyl thing would block more soundwaves and frequencies than would a 1/16" of a 'coating'. Soundwaves are just like that. :) (like a recording "sound room", home insulation, or a thick winter jacket)

novanutcase
02-20-2007, 06:48 PM
Hope this isn't to late for some of you.....

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

John

triplecap
02-26-2007, 03:39 PM
I did a bunch of research on this and decided on FatMat's RattleTrap Extreme - it's not asphalt based and it's the thickest one I could find (and among the most affordable). 80 mil thick and $139 for 100 sq. ft.

deak350
02-27-2007, 08:20 AM
I just installed 36 square feet of Dynamat Extreme from the bulk pak inside my Nova. I covered most of the firewall, trans tunnel, doors, and rear tubs. I can't say enough good things about this product. It is a night and day difference. This product is awesome. I am however going to buy another bulk pak and cover every single inch of the passenger compartment.

Damn True
02-27-2007, 08:43 AM
How much does 36 feet of the stuff weigh?

BA.
02-28-2007, 03:04 PM
The Dynamat Extreme is about .5lb per square foot.

There's some other product specs at this link, but note that the FatMat used here is the asphalt stuff.

http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/products/

audioman
03-20-2007, 05:17 PM
Sorry for the stupid question, but what exactly are the benefits of using Dynamat/Fatmat?

Thanks,
Dan

It's used to help eliminate resonance sounds that are caused in the vehicle. For example take a thin panel and tap it with something metal and it makes a tinging noise. Cover the panel with some sound absorber material and try again. This time you should only hear a thump and not the high frequency sound.. Cars have alot of things that make sounds and moving metallic parts add to the noise level in the car.Sound competitors use it so when the music is playing there's no unwanted sound. If you have a certain frequency in you car and another freq or the same ineracts and cancels out both sounds. There playing against each other. There's been alot of research on all the freq in a car from the factories. The last one I saw was a brand new car had some 50 different sounds. Adding sound deadening material helps stop all those sounds. You notice I never used a trade name for sound deadening material. Dynamat has been at it the longest while there are several companies with less noticable names coming on strong. You can also try Hush Mat. I met with them at Year One and have been impressed with there products and not as much money. The new kid on the block can't be the highest. www.hushmat.com (http://www.hushmat.com)
Take a look at our car. Quiet as a kitten

16194

16195

www.1offrides.com (http://www.1offrides.com)

racereno
03-26-2007, 07:45 AM
An interesting read: http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/

ChevyThunder
04-14-2007, 07:52 AM
Totally appreciate all the research everyone has done but with all the work I am doing to this car I just don't want to risk using a different product . Staying with the Dyna Mat . Got the roof done and will be laying it out in the rest of the car.

daygoslow
04-14-2007, 08:51 AM
just installed the raamat in my chevelle and very happy with the results and price.

barno68
05-07-2007, 06:52 AM
The heat reduction and sound deadening issue is hard. There are tons of products out there and everyone will swear by one on them.

Myself, I have 200 sq ft of eDead out in the garage waiting to go in my Camaro only to learn that it is asphalt based (thought it was bytul). Now I am considering spraying LizardSkin on the firewall, floorboards and roof first and then putting the eDead on over it. My concern is that the asphalt base will melt in the heat (live in Phoenix). Live and learn, but isn't that the way it always is?

Brent