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View Full Version : Finally found G-bar information on CAChassisworks Website



meenaggie
05-07-2008, 07:17 PM
Just thought I would pass this information along since I was somewhat frustrated when searching for info on the CAChassisworks g-bar for my camaro.

Here is the direct link:
http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/gbar.html

From the http://www.cachassisworks.com/ website you have to click "Prodcuts" then click "Total Control Products" which gets you to http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/docs/ then scroll 2/3 of the way down for the g-bar (and g-link, g-bar sway bar, etc.) info

It was like mining for gold. Maybe I am the only stupid one on pro-touring and everybody else knew this already but just in case.

meenaggie
05-07-2008, 07:26 PM
For a Camaro guy I found "fool's gold", as all of the g-bar info on the website is for Mustangs & Cougars. I thought the picture of the brackets did not match what Frank had posted for EmptyNest (much smaller brackets for connection to frame rails on Mustang).

Is CAChassisworks going to post the g-bar info for the F-bodies on their website? Is the picture of the g-bar in the CAChassiworks ad on page 17 in the June 08 Super Chevy actually the Mustang system?

Still frustrated . . . (and yes I have reviewed Frank's G-bar post)

zbugger
05-07-2008, 07:28 PM
No, you're not stupid. Their site sucks. Thanks for the links.

Turbo67camaro
05-07-2008, 07:35 PM
Yeah, their website navigation leaves room for improvement.

I had the same issues.

Consumers are picky (consciously and subconsciously). I bet it impacts their sales. Having built computer systems for 26 years, I can fix it for them. Will work for parts ! LOL

P.S. Waiting for a G-Bar to be delivered as I write this.

ProdigyCustoms
05-07-2008, 08:30 PM
Those are Mustang units, however Camaro units will look just like them except where they will obviously need to be different like the cradle.

John510
05-08-2008, 01:21 PM
would you guys know if you can lower the car as much as a DSE 4 link since the DSE cuts into the trunk?

TitoJones
05-08-2008, 04:24 PM
Am I the only one that cringes when seeing the entire suspension being held in by 3/8" sheetmetal screws? Doesn't seem like the best way to mount it to save the client some welding time.

Tyler

Vegas69
05-08-2008, 04:40 PM
I agree....weld it of forget it.

sunset68
05-09-2008, 08:02 PM
Pics or no pics from Alston, you still gotta do it. Best money Frank ever spent....:naughty:. I can honestly say I got a chubby today when I saw my camaro today back on the ground. God bless the g-bar and god bless Frank. :headbang:

John510
05-09-2008, 10:09 PM
How did you get a G Bar? I called Alston and they are telling me that they wont be out until June!!!!

sunset68
05-09-2008, 10:13 PM
I have the "original".

ProdigyCustoms
05-10-2008, 02:49 AM
John, Chris Alston has authorized us to take pre orders now, which means they are right around the cornere. The most recomended set up is very similar to the original with urethane bushings. And while ever so slightly different in appearance, is the same geometry.

Wow Sunset!

Tyler, we recomend welding also. Of interest though. Air Ride ran their Mustang bolted in for a full season of autocross and it took until the last event to tear it loose from the body. And none of us will do what Air Ride does to that car every show!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

BossaNova
05-10-2008, 04:31 AM
I want to commend you for finding _anything_ on that web site.



It was like mining for gold. Maybe I am the only stupid one on pro-touring and everybody else knew this already but just in case.[/quote]

John McIntire
05-10-2008, 04:34 AM
damn! that mustang is three wheelin'

LowBuckX
05-10-2008, 11:05 AM
damn! that mustang is three wheelin'

You should see the video.... Pure power 1100HP I beleive.

TitoJones
05-10-2008, 11:55 AM
Well that is just plain stupid. They tore out their own suspension doing exactly what they recommend it for? Someone needs to go back to engineering school or stop recommending it as a 'bolt in' product.

That screams lawsuit.

Tyler

holschen
05-10-2008, 12:55 PM
Well that is just plain stupid. They tore out their own suspension doing exactly what they recommend it for? Someone needs to go back to engineering school or stop recommending it as a 'bolt in' product.

That screams lawsuit.

Tyler

Iīm with you Tyler
It doesnīt look that rigid to me
and i rather have som more rigid stuff to play with even if itīs heavy
i thougt the old one look much better ,or that is another manufacturer??

DarkoNova
05-10-2008, 12:55 PM
Well that is just plain stupid. They tore out their own suspension doing exactly what they recommend it for? Someone needs to go back to engineering school or stop recommending it as a 'bolt in' product.

That screams lawsuit.

Tyler

Wha? Who said anything about tearing their suspension out?

Matt

chicane67
05-10-2008, 01:15 PM
Wha? Who said anything about tearing their suspension out?


Air Ride ran their Mustang bolted in for a full season of autocross and it took until the last event to tear it loose from the body. And none of us will do what Air Ride does to that car every show!



Yup yup... that definately crosses the line of shear stupidity.

Just this one instance will make me not look in their direction for any product. I mean... how good is it to advertise a gross failure in this format but still expect the general populus to have any kind of confidence in a product line that is screaming an inadequate/incompetent WAG for proper materials engineering ??

Yet this is actually used on a street driven chassis on public roads. Wow.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/where_is_this_thread_going-1.jpg

John McIntire
05-10-2008, 06:35 PM
yeah, their site is difficult to navigate. I just downlaod the catalog and flip through it page by page and thats a PITA.

Anyone have a link to a video of that mustang? 1100HP? For Real?

ProdigyCustoms
05-11-2008, 05:08 AM
There is not a sole that sells this stuff that would redmend bolting it in a car doing what the Air Ride Mustang does week in and week out. I am certain this is not stupidty, but instead is torture testing of ones product to see just how much it can take. I am actually very happy to know this test was done, I would not have believed it could make one pass on this kind of run, let alone a entire season the way they push that thing! Air Ride is one of a few companies willing to torture their stuff.

Summary, for a nice driver, 300-400 HP car driven on the street, your fine bolting it is. Full on track car pushed hard enough to get the front tire 6" off the ground in the corers! You probably should weld EVERYTHING!

TitoJones
05-11-2008, 09:17 AM
CAT FIGHT!!!

Do you agree with their recommeded install? Would you put your newborn baby in the back seat afterwards? Notice I don't have anything to say about the geometry, or the Air Bags, or anything elese save for the method of installation. If they recommeded welding, and only included 9 out of the 18 sheetmetal screw to hold it in place while it gets welded, my safety concern would be gone.
Come on now. If I wanted to start a fight, I'd have a much more clever and detailed comment than what I put above. Great contribution to the discussion though.

Frank-

Read the .pdf of Air Ride and Alston's install. I didn't see a mention of welding as a perfered method of attachment. They think that for the general population, this 3/8 sheetmetal screw will be enough, which they proved on their own car; is not by a long shot.

Tyler

LowBuckX
05-11-2008, 08:14 PM
Chill man I was commenting on your tone not its content..... You have an ablitiy to sound super confrontational even if you dont mean it too... Im sorry I will leave you alone with my dry humor

DaveO
05-11-2008, 09:19 PM
Actually the G-bar install guide does say to weld the cradle in, and use the screws to hold it in place while welding. What's weird is that the Airbar install guide (which was also included with the g-bar kit, same cradle) DOESN'T mention anything about welding.

LowBuckX
05-11-2008, 11:52 PM
Ok am I missing something. Is the Air rides product that is available at Summit (air bar) the same as the g-bar but in an Air spring config??

Marcus SC&C
05-12-2008, 08:44 AM
Okay,there`s a LOT going on with Alston and the G-Bar right now. The basic G-Bar is a great touring package for moderate horsepower cars. It works well and yes with mild street cars you can just bolt it in. The weight of the car is on the brackets the screws merely hold them in place. Would I install one without welding it? No, I`m too much of a belt AND suspenders kinda guy. It`s so quick and easy to weld it too,hell why not just do it and be extra sure?
Now,the new G-Link. This one is not just the G-Bar with new bushings! It`s a whole new system designed by Chris for serious performance cars. Anti squat and instant center location are fully adjustable. It has more ride height,motion ratio and pinion angle adjustment too. The new available arms use Alstons TrueCenter delrin race greasable bearings. These free up suspension articulation without binding and are sealed for long life on the street. Having seen them in person they`re beautifully machined pieces. Arms are available in steel or billet aluminum. They`ve also added two optional rear swaybars,an axle mounted splined end fixed rate with billet arms or a frame mounted adjustable rate bar! This is very cool stuff and puts the G-Link a step ahead of the competition. It`s was really hard to keep this one under my hat! We`re just now updating our Alston listings with the G-Link and we`re taking no cost preorders now. http://www.scandc.com/alston.htm We`re hoping for delivery by the end of June. Mark SC&C

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/GBarBillet-1.jpg

drnc
05-12-2008, 08:49 PM
I'd like to know what the deal is with the 70-81 camaro g-bars, they've had them advertised for how long? and i called to order one with the bolt in fab-9 on friday and the guy said neither are ready. i had a feeling the fab-9 might not be ready but they've still been advertising it for some time. it was pretty disappointing, ruined my week...

Frank i think i will call you tomorrow for more info on the pre orders, you seem to have pretty good customer service. the guy i talked to from cw was the opposite of enthused to help me out... kind of a turn off but the product is exactly what i want.

XLexusTech
05-13-2008, 04:55 AM
I think their are some DSE Shills chiming in here.

When you start throwing out scare tactics like "Would you put your newborn in the back seat" and words like "lawsuit" it reminds me of why we need warning labels on Mattresses and decadant bags have to say do not eat on them.

Why not just come out and say what your steering Buy DSE BUY DSE their the best Buy DSE...

TitoJones
05-13-2008, 08:38 AM
I think their are some DSE Shills chiming in here.

When you start throwing out scare tactics like "Would you put your newborn in the back seat" and words like "lawsuit" it reminds me of why we need warning labels on Mattresses and decadant bags have to say do not eat on them.

Why not just come out and say what your steering Buy DSE BUY DSE their the best Buy DSE...

Yeah, OK.:rolleyes: You do realize that I was the one who said that, and I'm no DSE bandwagon rider. I might as well say- weld your rear suspension in or you will tear it out!! Weld ! Weld ! Weld! Sheetmetal screws are for holding down aluminum siding to your house- not for installing a rear suspension.
Do you not get that the people who recommend this to you enthusiasts tore out their own product doing exactly what they tell you it's designed for? How do you people not get important safety info out of this and then turn it into a product and vendor clash?
Buy this product. When you install it, take the extra hour to weld it in.

Tyler

ProdigyCustoms
05-13-2008, 09:00 AM
I'd like to know what the deal is with the 70-81 camaro g-bars, they've had them advertised for how long? and i called to order one with the bolt in fab-9 on friday and the guy said neither are ready. i had a feeling the fab-9 might not be ready but they've still been advertising it for some time. it was pretty disappointing, ruined my week...

Frank i think i will call you tomorrow for more info on the pre orders, you seem to have pretty good customer service. the guy i talked to from cw was the opposite of enthused to help me out... kind of a turn off but the product is exactly what i want.

There is no Fab 9 G bar ready rear for the 2nd gen car, and there will not be for a while as CA is working on the final details and production of the 1st gen kits right now. 2nd gen will come later. I can set you up with one of our Moser M9 rear and put lower links on it for you, but you will have to weld on your own upper mounts as we have no jig for second gen yet.

Give me a call and we can work through it all

four zero seven 832 1752.

Marcus SC&C
05-13-2008, 10:02 AM
Just to clarify,there`s no bolt in FAB 9 rear axle for a G-Bar in a second gen F body yet. The G-Bar package itself for second gens has been available for some time. We`ve sold several of them and a few of the guys on this forum have them installed already. The G-Link may be quite a while yet. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea. Mark SC&C

drnc
05-13-2008, 11:40 AM
Just to clarify,there`s no bolt in FAB 9 rear axle for a G-Bar in a second gen F body yet. The G-Bar package itself for second gens has been available for some time. We`ve sold several of them and a few of the guys on this forum have them installed already. The G-Link may be quite a while yet. Just so nobody gets the wrong idea. Mark SC&C


weird, i SPECIFICALLY asked this when i called he said there was no 70-81 g bar what so ever. with or without the fab9

frank, this m9 you speak of is lifting my spirits, if i get a decent break here at work i'll try to call you
thanks

ProdigyCustoms
05-13-2008, 12:02 PM
Here is the G Bar ready / back braced M 9 under one of my customers 68 Acadian (Nova). As I mentioned, we can do the same rear for you with the trick lower mounts attached, and you weld the uppers. This will get you half way there without having the ugly leaf spring perche adapters. We can also do 12 bolts.

If it were a first gen Camaro or Nova, we could send you a bolt in, UGH! Sorry!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/PICT00281-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/PICT001621-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/PICT001921-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/04/PICT00212-1.jpg

XLexusTech
05-13-2008, 12:34 PM
Hey Frank How much for the G bar ready Fab 9? Does it have torino ends?
Thanks

ProdigyCustoms
05-13-2008, 01:15 PM
The M9 housing and axles runs right at $1100 and comes with whatever ends you want. Torino usually

drnc
05-14-2008, 04:10 AM
thats awesome! can you do custom widths? how narrow can you go for a 2nd gen?

ProdigyCustoms
05-14-2008, 05:44 AM
Yes, and pretty damn narrow. 55ish? Depends on ends and a couple other things. but 55 should give you room for 12s and deep lips.

meenaggie
05-14-2008, 06:34 PM
Frank, sent you a PM. Thanks in advance.

DaveO
05-17-2008, 02:03 PM
If it were a first gen Camaro or Nova, we could send you a bolt in, UGH! Sorry!

Frank, does the g-bar ready Moser 12bolt come with the welded in lower mounts like on the M9 you posted, or is that an added option?

meenaggie
05-17-2008, 06:29 PM
G-Bar vs G-link for a weekend crusier? I like the idea of the adjustibility on the G-Link but the simplicity and durability of the urethane bushings on the G-Bar. I saw some posts on camaro.net that suggested the urethane (G-bar) would be better for a driver due to the durability of the pivot ball joints (G-link). Either will be sufficient for my 383 stroker and driving style. Is there any tuning or pinion adjsutment with the G-bar after I get it welded up? Would like to hear others opinions. Guess I have a month or so to decide since they are not available yet. I plan to drive the car a lot. Will not intentioanlly drive it bad weather but will not check forecast every time I take it out either.

ProdigyCustoms
05-17-2008, 08:59 PM
Frank, does the g-bar ready Moser 12bolt come with the welded in lower mounts like on the M9 you posted, or is that an added option?

Yes sir. 12 Bolt or M9, both available.

ProdigyCustoms
05-17-2008, 09:01 PM
G-Bar vs G-link for a weekend crusier? I like the idea of the adjustibility on the G-Link but the simplicity and durability of the urethane bushings on the G-Bar. I saw some posts on camaro.net that suggested the urethane (G-bar) would be better for a driver due to the durability of the pivot ball joints (G-link). Either will be sufficient for my 383 stroker and driving style. Is there any tuning or pinion adjsutment with the G-bar after I get it welded up? Would like to hear others opinions. Guess I have a month or so to decide since they are not available yet. I plan to drive the car a lot. Will not intentioanlly drive it bad weather but will not check forecast every time I take it out either.

The G Bar has adjustable uppers. The G Link has adjustable uppers and lowers. The G bar with urethane is you primary street choice. The G link is you tunable 50% street / 50% race set up.

BRIAN
05-19-2008, 08:27 AM
No engineer but just welding it on without proper bracing of some sort might actually rip the sheetmetal?? That is what 20 gauge?


I have said it many times, this Industry is just waiting for that one big lawsuit. There is no testing of aftermarket parts like in other countries. There are tons of parts being sold that are downright scary. Then there are also so called pro builders posting pics of equally scary work and guys praising them. By the way nobody in this thread so don't jump all over me.

If you do not think there is some creep watching this and looking for that product tha they can create the ideal situation for failure you are crazy. This Industry will change with that first multi million dollar lawsuit as Insurance Co's will need tighter testing.

Tyler is right, you should have the thought about who you would have in that car you are building it might save someones life. This is the suspension not a new carburator.


Just my crazy 2 cents.

bret
05-19-2008, 11:47 AM
At Road Atlanta this past weekend I had 3 cars there with our AirBar rear suspensions. the first was a 69 Mustang with a 460 small block that makes 630 hp and a Rankin NASCAR 4 speed trans and a Tilton carbon triple disc clutch. This is the one that I ripped out of the car last fall at the Texas Goodguys show after 3 years of autocross use with BFG R1 tires. The AirBar did not depart the sheetmetal, the sheetmetal departed the car. On the Mustang the front portion of the AirBar cradle is bolted to the former pinion snubber support. This support is spotwelded in about 15 places to the floorpan. The pinion snubber support pulled away from the floorpan and let the pinion rotate upwards causing the driveshaft to contact the bottom of the trans tunnel. This made the carbon driveshaft into an expensive carbon broom. We brought the car home, beat the pinion mount back into shape and welded it back to the floorpan. Then we re-bolted the Airbar cradle to that support. It is still there. The lesson here is that IF you are running a high HP engine, AND a clutchless 4 speed, AND are racing the car, AND are using racing tires, then you might consider keeping an eye on the pinion support on a Mustang.
The second car we to to Atlanta was our 71 Camaro. This car has also run dozens of autocross event with 420hp 383, a 4L60 automatic, and BFG KD tires. The Airbar was bolted to that framrail as well. As is common on Gen2 F bodies, the framerails were rusty and therefore thin. On that car we welded the upper cradle to the repaired framerails. The lesson here is that if you have framelrail that are damaged by accident and/or rust, you may have to weld.
The 3rd car we took to Atlanta was Velocity, our new 68 Camaro. It also has an AirBar that is bolted into the oem framerails. Since that particular car is new I cannot use it as a durability example, but its predecessor, our 67 that was stolen last year, had been autocrossed extensively with no problems.
Once upon a time I was quite concerned about the prospect of bolting a rear suspension into a car. That is why we always secure the cradle to the car in 2 planes so the fasteners are in a shear load instead of a tension load.
If the common monkey were to simply bolt a suspension bracket into a car with sheetmetal screws, it is likely the installation would not last to be catastrophic...it woould fail before leaving the driveway. But if you spend some time to figure out how to load the fasteners [that were specifically designed for thinwall metal fastening] properly, the problem can be sucessfully and safely resolved. Because I can be hard to convince, on our initial in-house prototypes I placed small "witness" weld tacks on the brackets in a couple places to show any movement during use. These tacks were the size of your little fingernail and would not support any load, but would break if exposed to any movement. None broke.
While I think that there are some specific cars/people/applications that may want/need welding, I also think that there are a great deal more situations where a bad weld is worse than a properly designed bolted joint. Even for a good welder it is quite a chore to properly weld a thick bracket to a thin framerail while upsidedown under a dirty car. If you are a competent welder and you think your horsepower/driving style/personal karma require welding, by all means, let it happen. For the rest of us, keep in mind that, for the most part, buildings, bridges, and airplanes are bolted together.

Bret Voelkel
President
Air Ride Technologies, Inc.

chicane67
05-19-2008, 07:18 PM
Now that right there... explains a lot.

Thanks Bret.

meenaggie
05-20-2008, 06:32 PM
Bret - thanks for the info. Nice post. Also noticed the pictures on the www.ridetech.com website for part ABAR20100 are actually of the camaro system (correct cradle). Do you have any pictures of the rear suspension setup on Velocity camaro posted on your website? Did a quick search and didn't find any but would really like to see them system installed with the mini-tubs and wide tires. Maybe you can post a picture here.

FYI . . . if you haven't made it to the outhouse section lately you may want to check out Tyler's post from earlier today.

ProdigyCustoms
05-20-2008, 08:16 PM
I am sure the Air Ride boys will post some pics of Velocity.

Here is a G Bar on Project Payback we finished up a couple months ago with 345 / 30 / 19s

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And here is a Air bar in Project EmptyNest with 345 / 30 / 19s

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Marcus SC&C
05-21-2008, 07:40 AM
G-Bar vs G-link for a weekend crusier? I like the idea of the adjustibility on the G-Link but the simplicity and durability of the urethane bushings on the G-Bar. I saw some posts on camaro.net that suggested the urethane (G-bar) would be better for a driver due to the durability of the pivot ball joints (G-link). Either will be sufficient for my 383 stroker and driving style. Is there any tuning or pinion adjsutment with the G-bar after I get it welded up? Would like to hear others opinions. Guess I have a month or so to decide since they are not available yet. I plan to drive the car a lot. Will not intentioanlly drive it bad weather but will not check forecast every time I take it out either.

The urethane bushings are the economy choice. They work okay on mild cars but will exhibit more non linear binding than the pivot ball units and have more of a tendency to squeak. The Alston greasable pivot balls are NOT heims or monoballs,they`re delrin race virtually sealed units. They allow free suspension articulation with an absolute minimum of binding and are the top choice for race AND street. We`ve been running the original Currie Johnny Joints that the Alston units are based on in our street,race and off road vehicles for years. This format easily outperforms and out lasts regular urethane bushings and have no NVH issues like heims. You can`t beat em. :)
The G-Bar has only adj. for pinion angle. The G-Link has adj. for pinion angle with the upper (and lower steel pivot ball arms). It also has adjustment for anti squat and instant center location, minimizing roll steer etc. That means you can easily optimize it for any ride height,for drag racing, for road racing etc. by simply moving the arms in their mounting brackets. That`s a pretty nice feature! Don`t forget the new adj. rate rear swaybar either. If you`re building a european touring type car,a real nice cruiser and you want to do it on a budget then the G-Bar is for you. It`ll work on higher horsepower cars and work well (Bret`s proven that!) but the G-Link will work even better and it will still cruise just a nice and smooth. Mark SC&C

XLexusTech
05-21-2008, 09:55 AM
Thanks Mark sounds like the G Link is clearly the way to go.

Do I smell a fire sale on G bars?

jb@ridetech
05-21-2008, 12:50 PM
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif