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View Full Version : It's just about ready, - Camaro rear subframe



CraigMorrison
05-02-2008, 06:49 AM
For all the guys who have been asking about how close we are to being finished with the Camaro rear subframe. It's just about done!
Fully welded rear 2X4 subframe to replace the stock unibody rails, Tri 4-bar, housing, etc. that FITS UNDER THE STOCK FLOOR! You can even keep the stock fuel tank. Pricing isn't finalized yet, but I just wanted to show a couple pics.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_2677vi-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_2648vi-1.jpg

JMarsa
05-02-2008, 08:47 AM
First Gen only?

--JMarsa

MrQuick
05-02-2008, 07:41 PM
Nice stuff Craig. 3 link version coming soon? Is that a DSE mini tub back there?

ls1 nova
05-02-2008, 08:26 PM
Very nice,

Any chance that fits a 71 nova? I am ready to do my rear suspension. Just installed Dse coilover speed kit 3. Would this compliment the front suspesion?

Young Gun
05-02-2008, 08:52 PM
looks great!

David Pozzi
05-03-2008, 11:06 AM
Nice job!
One issue I see is, the best /only site for mufflers is under the rear seat area and your crossmember is blocking the front of it, and the lower link is in the way.
I'd think about locating the lower trailing link mounts tight inside the frame rail coming off the shock mount area on the rear axle and making the crossmember smaller height in the middle. The frame rail can be the outer side of the lower link bracket and you only need one tab on the inside to make it double shear.
2"X4" seems like overkill on a unibody Camaro, why not 2"X3"?
David

David Pozzi
05-06-2008, 09:27 PM
I can't believe we aren't getting more comments!
I edited the thread title to show a little more info.
David

MrQuick
05-06-2008, 09:33 PM
maybe its the shock and awe sh*** another thing to save for factor? LOL
2x4 is over kill but when you got it growing in trees, its what you use. More room for notching. :cool:

Vegas69
05-06-2008, 11:05 PM
After being under mine half my life for the last month....I agree with Pozzi. All we need is less room to roam underneath. Looks like a fantastic setup for handling and structural integrity. For a street car it doesn't look so convenient where you want to run 3 inch pipe all the way to the ass end. Maybe he has a solution.

hotrdblder
05-07-2008, 04:13 AM
i agree, the mufflers will hang way down because of the front crossmember, looks strong.

silver69camaro
05-07-2008, 04:25 AM
David,
2x4 was used simply for our ability to bend this material to the shape we want. It is somewhat overkill for most of us, but we still went with it for two reasons:
1. Strength. We get so many calls from people who claim to be making 700+hp, and some actually do.
2. Strength vs. mass ratio. The 2x4 is sooo much stronger with just a minimal increase in mass. Plus, all that weight is low in the the back...right where it needs to be.

Concerning exhaust: We agree and have made changes since the photo. That's the beauty of this community, everybody caught that problem right when we did. Luckily, we've already orchistrated changes to allow 3" exhaust down the tunnel (the way you normally would in these cars) near the driveshaft. This allows the mufflers to be placed in between the housing and crossmember. It's tight, but it works! Oval tubing is always an option as well, but definitely not required (it's expensive!).

This clip looks very much at home in the back of this car...like the way it should have been from the factory.

CraigMorrison
05-07-2008, 05:50 AM
Nice stuff Craig. 3 link version coming soon? Is that a DSE mini tub back there?

There will be a 3-link sub in the offering as well, but because of the suspension, it won't fit under the floor. That's why we have a choice between the two.

silver69camaro
05-07-2008, 06:46 AM
Very nice,

Any chance that fits a 71 nova? I am ready to do my rear suspension. Just installed Dse coilover speed kit 3. Would this compliment the front suspesion?

This clip is for '67-9 F-bodies only.

JMarsa
05-07-2008, 06:03 PM
This clip is for '67-9 F-bodies only.

It's your business, but it seems like selling ice cream to only kids with red hair, blue eyes, no freckles, mom's an accountant and dad's a teacher. You get the point.

--JMarsa

72NovaSS
05-07-2008, 06:17 PM
Tear...I thought that the 68-72 Novas would be exactly the same as a 67-69 Camaro!

Balance_Point
05-07-2008, 08:54 PM
How many degrees of articulation before this installation incurs any bind? Also, this kit vs. the 3 link in development, what is the weight difference?

CraigMorrison
05-08-2008, 04:48 AM
It's your business, but it seems like selling ice cream to only kids with red hair, blue eyes, no freckles, mom's an accountant and dad's a teacher. You get the point.

--JMarsa

Keep in mind that we custom make clips like this every day for all sorts of cars, just more fab work is required since we haven't used our Faro arm for mapping out the floor. It's a vehicle specific product, just like our Tri5 chassis, C1 Vette chassis or DSE's Camaro tubs.

TA219
05-08-2008, 05:12 AM
That looks awesome!

silver69camaro
05-08-2008, 05:32 AM
How many degrees of articulation before this installation incurs any bind? Also, this kit vs. the 3 link in development, what is the weight difference?

Typically with our Triangulated 4-bar system, the housing can rotate 8 degrees until bind force can be detected. For those of you who may think this isn't much, keep in mind the body will roll less than 4 degrees during a 1g cornering situation.

Weight difference is negliable. The 3-link will be about 3lbs heavier due to the watts link and support hoop.

Balance_Point
05-08-2008, 06:46 AM
Typically with our Triangulated 4-bar system, the housing can rotate 8 degrees until bind force can be detected. For those of you who may think this isn't much, keep in mind the body will roll less than 4 degrees during a 1g cornering situation.

Weight difference is negliable. The 3-link will be about 3lbs heavier due to the watts link and support hoop.

Thank you for the reply.

Lowend
05-08-2008, 07:16 AM
Sweeet

CraigMorrison
05-08-2008, 12:46 PM
Thanks to your input, we have made a slight re-design on the front crossmember to make exhaust fitment a bit easier. Note the Pypes stainless crossover in the background of one of the shots. As you can see, there is room for a muffler, and the exhaust can be routed up and over the housing. Before you ask, this was done with 2.5" inch exhaust, and from the looks of things 3" should work, but things will obviously be a bit tighter.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_2762vi-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_2744vi-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_2749vi-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/05/IMG_2750vi-1.jpg

72NovaSS
05-08-2008, 07:00 PM
Any idea as to what needs to be done to make this work in a 72 nova? What are the differences from the Camaro and the Nova?

ls1 nova
05-08-2008, 07:25 PM
Same question,

I have a 70 nova and I am ready to purchase rear suspension. Looking at DSE but interested in options.

Thanks

MrQuick
05-08-2008, 09:10 PM
Its close.....but you are cutting out the rear section so it should not matter. If you can weld it would not be a difficult job.

I suppose they just can't say it will fit a Nova cause its engineered for a Camaro.

Steve N 69 69 69
05-09-2008, 10:48 AM
That looks nice. Its awesome that you guys are willing to let us in on the R&D, and even weigh in on our opinions and concerns. Then make changes to the design BEFORE releasing it to the public. Thanks for keeping us in the loop. Keep up the great work.

ATAK, Inc.
05-09-2008, 11:16 AM
Very nice, can't wait to see it offered to the masses;)

justanova
05-09-2008, 05:46 PM
what size tire can be stuffed in there?

looks awesome!

David Sloan
05-10-2008, 04:23 AM
Thanks Craig
Very nice, looking forward to installing one of these.

David Pozzi
05-10-2008, 09:23 AM
Craig, That's nice! :) Who makes the muffler and tail pipe?
David

WS6
05-11-2008, 04:35 PM
That's a magnaflow muffler, David.

The rear subframe looks great guys. Keep up the good work.

vp23271
05-11-2008, 05:54 PM
When I DSE mini tubbed my 68 Camaro, the rear frame needed to be notched to accommodate a wider tire. It looks like your setup has new frame rails and possible mini tubbed? Is the distance between the rear frame rails narrower than stock or does your set up also need to be notched?

Looks good. I like how you addressed the muffler issue. Getting the exhaust over the rear axle and past the fuel tank is going to be tight, but looks do'able. Maybe if you packaged an exhaust system that was pre-bent to get past the rear end maybe it would sell too?

marty69212
05-14-2008, 09:00 AM
i called about this a couple of years ago and was pretty much told, ir cant be done !!! that looks great!!! good job dudes!!! i definitally have a sound decision on my rear suspension now!!!!!

eric1967
05-17-2008, 04:30 AM
Somebody has to ask. How much $? Thanks Eric

silver69camaro
05-19-2008, 01:17 PM
Thanks for the comments guys. We currently have a 3-link w/ watts under the car right now, and it looks badass. We'll post some shots with the car completed. To answer some questions:


what size tire can be stuffed in there?


A 335mm will fit, just as much as the DSE tubs will allow. The rear area of the frame rail is flush with the inside of the tub.


Is the distance between the rear frame rails narrower than stock or does your set up also need to be notched?


Yes, the rails are narrower and do not need to be notched.


Somebody has to ask. How much $? Thanks Eric


I don't have a solid answer for you right now, but I will say it is definetely competitive.

Installation is definetly easy and should be task any garage mechanic can do. No sheetmetal fabrication required at all! And if you aren't comfortable welding the clip to the body, simply tack weld it into place and trailer the car to a competent shop; but really the clip only needs to be stitch welded into place. If you can install DSE tubs, this install will be a cinch.

CraigMorrison
06-11-2008, 04:49 AM
http://www.artmorrison.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Camaro-FrontClip&id=000_0311

Here's the link to the 3-link pics. It starts off with the back seat images as you can still keep the back seat with the 3-link. Because this is Matt's car and we are doing some 3-link vs tri 4-bar testing you will notice extra brackets on this one.

DarkoNova
06-11-2008, 05:40 PM
That 3 link looks SICK, and it's awesome that you can use the stock back seat and don't have to cut the floor. I'm guessing this is also for 1st gen F-bodies as well? I've got a 69 Nova and I definitely want a 3 link. I was gonna go with a Lateral Dynamics one but depending on how well this performs and if it will fit in a Nova, I may go this route since it'll be easier to use the stock rear seat and all.

Matt

holschen
06-12-2008, 02:15 AM
http://www.artmorrison.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Camaro-FrontClip&id=000_0311

Here's the link to the 3-link pics. It starts off with the back seat images as you can still keep the back seat with the 3-link. Because this is Matt's car and we are doing some 3-link vs tri 4-bar testing you will notice extra brackets on this one.
As everyone already have noted it looks realy nice,I was going to buy an g-bar but i already changed my mind I´m going with your 3-link
so price and availebillity....
I will have to wait :-(
Good work guys:1st::git::headbang:

MoparCar
06-12-2008, 05:22 AM
Very nice!
Us Mopar guys are always left behind too! Can you build either of these (4-link or Watts) for a 71 Challenger E-body?

Thanks

CraigMorrison
06-12-2008, 08:24 AM
We can definitely build you a custom one for your e-body. There will be a little bit more fab work but we can do it!

MoparCar
06-12-2008, 09:22 AM
Do you think it could be done on a Challenger as on the Camaro and still keep the slightly modified stock trunk/floor pans? I have the complete trunk pan out now anyway and it's early in the build (trying to figure out what systems to go with). What would be required for you to build this as far as measurements, templates, etc?

If this is to far off topic, I'll repost as a new topic.

Thanks!

DarkoNova
06-12-2008, 02:37 PM
We can definitely build you a custom one for your e-body. There will be a little bit more fab work but we can do it!

I'm guessing you could do it for a 71 Duster as well, then, eh? Mopar guys rarely ever get any new performance stuff, and especially the unpopular A-bodies. If you could make one to fit my Duster (and of course, the Nova), that'd be 2 guaranteed sales from me (when I get the money of course, lol).

Matt

CraigMorrison
06-13-2008, 06:25 AM
Somebody has to ask. How much $? Thanks Eric

Here's the pricing~

Tri 4-bar rear clip package
Includes:
fully welded subframe $1750
Tri 4 bar tubes & rod ends $ 360
Strange adj coil overs $ 360
Coil springs $ 80
Tri 4-bar sway bar $ 240
9+ Tri 4-bar housing $ 955
Spring bearing kit $ 30
Total $ 3815
Package discount $ (175)
Total $ 3640

You can also add:
Center section mounting kit $ 20
9" housing breather $ 26
3/8" t-bolt kit $ 35
Strange 31 spline axles $ 342
Wheel studs $ 25
Axle bearings $ 70
Strange S case 3rd member $1225
U-bolts for 9" yoke $ 18

The Strange "S' case 3rd member is set up with a posi unit and your gear choice

PRONOVA
06-13-2008, 06:59 AM
Will this be avaliable with shock waves?

CraigMorrison
06-13-2008, 07:01 AM
yes it will - we made sure that they did fit

MoparCar
07-11-2008, 07:31 AM
We can definitely build you a custom one for your e-body. There will be a little bit more fab work but we can do it!

What would be required for this? More fab on my end or yours (I know---both!). What would you need for a custom fit? CL of axle, width of rails, rise or offset of frame rails, etc? do you have a dimensioned side view/drawings of the camaro frame so I could compare to the Challenger to see how close they are?

Thanks

parsonsj
07-11-2008, 07:52 AM
I love it guys!!! AME rocks!

jp

Corinthian
07-11-2008, 08:36 AM
Here's the pricing~

Tri 4-bar rear clip package
Includes:
fully welded subframe $1750
Tri 4 bar tubes & rod ends $ 360
Strange adj coil overs $ 360
Coil springs $ 80
Tri 4-bar sway bar $ 240
9+ Tri 4-bar housing $ 955
Spring bearing kit $ 30
Total $ 3815
Package discount $ (175)
Total $ 3640

You can also add:
Center section mounting kit $ 20
9" housing breather $ 26
3/8" t-bolt kit $ 35
Strange 31 spline axles $ 342
Wheel studs $ 25
Axle bearings $ 70
Strange S case 3rd member $1225
U-bolts for 9" yoke $ 18

The Strange "S' case 3rd member is set up with a posi unit and your gear choice

So it's priced and available? How did I miss this! Calling you guys later today.

silver69camaro
07-11-2008, 08:44 AM
What would be required for this? More fab on my end or yours (I know---both!). What would you need for a custom fit? CL of axle, width of rails, rise or offset of frame rails, etc? do you have a dimensioned side view/drawings of the camaro frame so I could compare to the Challenger to see how close they are?

Thanks

More fab work would be required on your end. Typically our custom rear clips require most of the trunk sheetmetal to be removed. We've made clips for Aston Martins to Anglias to '01 Chev pickups, so we can accomodate pretty much everything. PM me a basic layout of what you would need for a rear clip and I'll see what we can put together for you.

Thanks for the compliment John! We always enjoy your work.

Just for a quickie update: About 150 miles on the car so far with the clip installed. The difference between this and glass/steel leafs is incredible. Awesome handing and lateral control. The biggest gain so far: ride quality and handling predictability. It's fairly easy to tell when the tires are approaching it's limits, and it's more forgiving when correcting. The chassis is noticably stiffer and has zero creaks/rattles coming from the body.

Using spherical rod ends at all joints for the 3-link provides razor sharp response and axle control, at the expense of increased NVH (we all know that). Poly rod ends keeps things quiet, but somewhat softens it up.

Other changes to note: The car is now running 4.30 gears instead of 3.73s as previous. To me, this is a very good gear for T56 transmissions using a 0.5:1 6th. 70MPH is 1900RPM and downshifting is no longer needed to pass cars. Standard 45mph back roads now make use of 5th gear for comfortable cruising. 3.73s were just way too tall...

Also, a clutch type limited slip was replaced by a Detroit TruTrac. I recommend this to anyone. Works excellent at low speeds but does not push the car in tight corners while on the throttle.

MoparCar
07-11-2008, 12:43 PM
More fab work would be required on your end. Typically our custom rear clips require most of the trunk sheetmetal to be removed. We've made clips for Aston Martins to Anglias to '01 Chev pickups, so we can accomodate pretty much everything. PM me a basic layout of what you would need for a rear clip and I'll see what we can put together for you.

I'll have to make some measurements and a sketch-that would be great. My trunk sheetmetal is out now so it wouldn't be a problem.


So by your remarks, I'm assuming you have the 3-link watt's in your ride currently...... not the 4 link. Correct? That's most likely what I'd be interested in for my Challenger also. I'd have to look at the packaging and fitment a bit.

silver69camaro
07-11-2008, 12:56 PM
Actually, the installed in mine has both mounts - 3-link and triangulated 4-bar.

holschen
07-12-2008, 04:00 AM
whats the price diffrence between the tri-4bar and the 3link?:bicycle::usa:


Here's the pricing~

Tri 4-bar rear clip package
Includes:
fully welded subframe $1750
Tri 4 bar tubes & rod ends $ 360
Strange adj coil overs $ 360
Coil springs $ 80
Tri 4-bar sway bar $ 240
9+ Tri 4-bar housing $ 955
Spring bearing kit $ 30
Total $ 3815
Package discount $ (175)
Total $ 3640

You can also add:
Center section mounting kit $ 20
9" housing breather $ 26
3/8" t-bolt kit $ 35
Strange 31 spline axles $ 342
Wheel studs $ 25
Axle bearings $ 70
Strange S case 3rd member $1225
U-bolts for 9" yoke $ 18

The Strange "S' case 3rd member is set up with a posi unit and your gear choice

silver69camaro
07-14-2008, 05:11 AM
The 3-link clip is $925 more than the triangulated, bringing it to $4565. It's considerably more complicated and requires some fabrication know-how for install. I would recommend the triangulated for most street guys; easy to install, quiet (no spherical rod ends used), cheaper, and handles great.

Payton King
07-14-2008, 07:30 AM
Comparison numbers between the 3 link and tri 4 on your car.

Driving impressions between both? I could not tell from your response above if you were speaking of the tri 4 or the 3 link.

silver69camaro
07-14-2008, 10:10 AM
Driving impressions between both? I could not tell from your response above if you were speaking of the tri 4 or the 3 link.

I was speaking of the 3-link, sorry. I'm going to put several hundred miles on the 3-link setup before I switch. So far I have about 300, I'll switch around 500-700. I want to be intimately familiar with it's characteristics before the swap.

Payton King
07-15-2008, 06:23 AM
I will keep watching for an update

DIK069
07-30-2008, 04:52 AM
Seriously considering one of these.

How did you go getting an exhaust up and over the housing with the 3 link set up ? Will it take a 3 inch ?

any pics ?

thanks

silver69camaro
07-30-2008, 05:15 AM
How did you go getting an exhaust up and over the housing with the 3 link set up ?

Personally, I didn't. My exhaust exits before the crossmember.

There is room to do this, but like any link type suspension in these cars, it will be somewhat complex. The triangulated 4-bar would be much easier and is what I would recommend if this issue would be of concern.

As an update, I will be switching to triangulated soon...

Adding photo:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/100_4272vi-1.jpg

It's an unusual setup, but sounds really good.

DIK069
07-30-2008, 05:28 AM
Thanks,

I saw the pics of your car on the other thread. with the front clip installed and prior to the rear clip installed. Nice, simple and understated.

Have you run a bigger rear wheel tyre combo now you have the mini tubs ?

Is the 3 link width the same as mentioned for the 4 link, in that it will take a 335 tyre ?

silver69camaro
07-30-2008, 06:19 AM
Thanks. Car sits lower now due to the rear clip:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/100_4288vi-1.jpg

I've been debating to drop it down a tad lower. It's about 5.25" between subframe and ground in this photo.

The car still has 275mm tires in back. Maybe because I'm an engineer, but I try to stay away from excess. Art's '55 proved that 0.96g is obtainable on 245/275mm street tires...slap on a set of R-compounds or sticky DOTs and you'll have a car that could be well over 1.1g static. Larger tires will indeed deliver more grip, at the expense of tire noise, degraded ride quality, additional weight, and fuel consumption.

So far the car handles and rides like an M3, but gets better mileage. It's hard to mess with that.

ProdigyCustoms
07-30-2008, 06:40 AM
Awesome as always guys.

We should have a order for one of these rear subframes coming your way real soon. We want to sell the first one!

Rick Dorion
07-30-2008, 07:09 AM
Matt, interesting exhaust! Headers into mufflers into 'X'?

silver69camaro
07-30-2008, 07:15 AM
Matt, interesting exhaust! Headers into mufflers into 'X'?

Yes, it's not something you see everyday. I was a bit worried about how it would sound, so I had it all tacked together first and fired the motor. Turned out to sound pretty darn good, lots of people comment on it.

The LS engine is pretty mild, so it's comfortable at cruise and idle.

silver69camaro
07-30-2008, 07:31 AM
Awesome as always guys.

We should have a order for one of these rear subframes coming your way real soon. We want to sell the first one!

Thanks a bunch Frank!

Turns out the first two are already sold. Get this: The first is going into a real-deal ZL-1 COPO '69. Bought our front subframe as well!

DIK069
07-31-2008, 04:45 AM
The car still has 275mm tires in back. Maybe because I'm an engineer, but I try to stay away from excess.

That made me laugh, I have a friend who's an engineer (In a different field), he would say exactly the same thing. It must be some sort of engineer conspiracy.

For whatever reason, some of us are different and tend to err on the side of form over function.

Thanks for the info

MoparCar
08-15-2008, 09:28 AM
Have you swapped the suspensions yet? Any comparisons between the 3 and 4 links in driving experience?

Thanks

MoparCar
10-06-2008, 12:34 PM
Have you swapped the suspensions yet? Any comparisons between the 3 and 4 links in driving experience?

Thanks

Any news?

CraigMorrison
10-07-2008, 08:01 AM
Matt is driving the car with the 3-link setup right now and has about 600-700 miles on it already. He's out of the office now, but I'll have him chime in on this thread.

protour73
10-07-2008, 08:12 AM
Matt is driving the car with the 3-link setup right now and has about 600-700 miles on it already. He's out of the office now, but I'll have him chime in on this thread.

any updated pics?

urbanhomeskillet
01-27-2009, 04:00 PM
Any updates? I was thinking of buying it and was wondering how the tri 4-bar corners.

silver69camaro
01-28-2009, 06:15 AM
Honestly its very difficult to tell the difference between the triangulated 4-bar and the 3-link. If anything, the 3-link might have slightly more foward bite due to higher anti-squat, but that's about it. Lateral control feels the same (as it should) and it's just as easy to handle it on the edge at the apex. I'll see if I can get some new photos up.

Like I mentioned recently in the Lateral-G forums, the triangulated four-bar clip is a hands down winner. Cheaper, no floor cutting, and excellent handling. I think the true benefit of the three link is the ability to run spherical rod ends, which is awful on the street anyway.

silver69camaro
01-28-2009, 06:28 AM
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/camarovi-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/01/000_0324vi-1.jpg

Wish I had some photos on the lift, but I don't at this time. It's on jackstands right now getting some electronics upgrades, so I'll get some more.

urbanhomeskillet
02-18-2009, 11:40 AM
I am sold on the clip and plan to order soon. Can you recommend subframe connector setup with this? It looks like you used some 2x4 tubing on your setup. I would rather not cut the floor pan so I was planning on using some Hotchkis connectors and modifying them to work with that crossmember. Would this be strong enough or should I just follow your lead and cut the floor?

silver69camaro
02-18-2009, 01:20 PM
We actually have 2x3 subframe connectors for this clip, and you do have to cut the floor. If you want all the stiffness you can get, you MUST cut the floor. It's not a real big job and it's well worth the effort.

urbanhomeskillet
02-18-2009, 05:58 PM
Great, thanks for the advice. I will patiently await more pics. :pat:

silver69camaro
02-19-2009, 07:31 AM
What photos would you like?

MoparCar
02-19-2009, 12:59 PM
I know I've asked before, but are you sure you won't make this rear clip for a direct fit e-body mopar any time soon?

Thanks

silver69camaro
02-20-2009, 05:53 AM
I know I've asked before, but are you sure you won't make this rear clip for a direct fit e-body mopar any time soon?

Thanks

Heh, I'm sure. It's not that it can't be done or we don't want to, the problem is we're stuffed to the max and wont really be able to create any new projects until our new building is up and ready. We have just a couple bolt-on frames on the plans right now and wont be able to expand at the rate we'd like until probably next year.

urbanhomeskillet
02-20-2009, 05:34 PM
Can you post some good pics of the tri 4 setup?

Rhino
05-07-2009, 05:53 AM
It's about 5.25" between subframe and ground in this photo. Is that front or rear subframe clearance? How much ground clearance do you have at the ends of the coil over mounts?

Have you guys thought of how this would act with a 12 bolt with cast center? How much of a difference would you notice due to the axle end of the upper links moving outward?

camaro2nv
05-09-2009, 02:18 PM
I need to sell my boat asap! I want this setup!

silver69camaro
05-11-2009, 05:52 AM
Is that front or rear subframe clearance? How much ground clearance do you have at the ends of the coil over mounts?

Have you guys thought of how this would act with a 12 bolt with cast center? How much of a difference would you notice due to the axle end of the upper links moving outward?

That's front subframe clearance.

Our triangulated 4-bar does not work well with 12-bolts, due to the width of the cast center. If we moved the UCAs outward, the links would shorten too much and cause nasty roll steer and pinion angle changes. Also, we try to keep the angle of the links (in a plan view) as they are for lateral stability.

silver69camaro
05-11-2009, 05:56 AM
Can you post some good pics of the tri 4 setup?

You can view some photos some photos here:
http://www.artmorrison.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Camaro-FrontClip&page=1

We don't have any of the tri-4 bar taken yet, but the 3-link is pretty similar. The only difference is the 4-bar requires no UCA hoop, and therefore no floor cutting.

camaro2nv
06-08-2009, 10:44 AM
Mine should be shipping next week, cant wait to install it. Any tipe on the install?

Jagarang
06-08-2009, 12:07 PM
Looks cool and sounds mean but creates HUGE clouds of dust and anything else that happens to be laying on the ground under you. I pointed my exhaust down too and can't keep my car clean for one second!

I love the suspension set-ups.

Personally, I didn't. My exhaust exits before the crossmember.

There is room to do this, but like any link type suspension in these cars, it will be somewhat complex. The triangulated 4-bar would be much easier and is what I would recommend if this issue would be of concern.

As an update, I will be switching to triangulated soon...

Adding photo:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/07/100_4272vi-1.jpg

It's an unusual setup, but sounds really good.

silver69camaro
06-09-2009, 05:29 AM
Looks cool and sounds mean but creates HUGE clouds of dust and anything else that happens to be laying on the ground under you. I pointed my exhaust down too and can't keep my car clean for one second!

I love the suspension set-ups.

Really? I haven't had that problem (much). It gets dirty, but I just use some Griots undercar cleaner and it comes right off.

Having the X-pipe just before the turndowns sounds very good...

silver69camaro
06-09-2009, 05:33 AM
Mine should be shipping next week, cant wait to install it. Any tipe on the install?

It's really pretty easy. First, place the rear caps into the frame rails. With the stock frame rails removed, insert rear of subframe into the bumper/rear valence area. Then, use a floor jack to raise the front crossmember into place. With a tape, make sure it's squared up pretty well, then get another floor jack to press the rear of the frame rails tight against the trunk floor, and do the same with the front jack. The idea is to get some of the cars weight onto the subframe to ensure a tight fit. When you're happy with the placement, place a few stitchwelds between the trunk floor framerails, rear valence, and front crossmember. Done!

CraigMorrison
06-09-2009, 05:54 AM
Mine should be shipping next week, cant wait to install it. Any tipe on the install?


Thanks for your order! TAKE LOTS OF PICS would like to post them up on our site.

camaro2nv
07-09-2009, 03:55 PM
Thanks guys. Got all but my axles and gearing today. Im guessing that side is coming from Frank. Everything was boxed up and on the pallet nice and neat! One thing though, is there any instructions? I cant wait to get this baby installed! Take one more part off the list!!!

camaro2nv
07-13-2009, 05:39 PM
Heres a shot for those of you on the fence. Its the stock frame rails compared to the Morrison piece.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0183-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0182-1.jpg

silver69camaro
07-14-2009, 09:22 AM
Thanks guys. Got all but my axles and gearing today. Im guessing that side is coming from Frank. Everything was boxed up and on the pallet nice and neat! One thing though, is there any instructions? I cant wait to get this baby installed! Take one more part off the list!!!

I have instructions I can email you if you didn't get them. PM me your email address and I'll get it to you.

ErikLS2
07-15-2009, 12:57 PM
That's front subframe clearance.

Our triangulated 4-bar does not work well with 12-bolts, due to the width of the cast center. If we moved the UCAs outward, the links would shorten too much and cause nasty roll steer and pinion angle changes. Also, we try to keep the angle of the links (in a plan view) as they are for lateral stability.

Matt, there are many canted 4-bar systems out there on 12 bolts and I haven't read any negative feedback on them. Would you elaborate on your statement about the UCA's being too far apart and just what you mean by "nasty roll steer"? Which has more impact on roll steer, UCA separation or side view angle of the UCA's?
Would your Tri 4 Bar suspension package work on a 1st gen 12 bolt? I love your companies products but I'm too for along for this new kit your talking about in this thread. Thanks!

silver69camaro
07-15-2009, 01:07 PM
Matt, there are many canted 4-bar systems out there on 12 bolts and I haven't read any negative feedback on them. Would you elaborate on your statement about the UCA's being too far apart and just what you mean by "nasty roll steer"? Which has more impact on roll steer, UCA separation or side view angle of the UCA's?
Would your Tri 4 Bar suspension package work on a 1st gen 12 bolt? I love your companies products but I'm too for along for this new kit your talking about in this thread. Thanks!

All of the things you mentioned will have an affect, but it all depends on how much of a change you make.

If the UCAs are widened laterally, they link must get shorter to match up with the bracket on the rail. Too short of a link will cause the housing to steer radically in a roll...how short is that? Honestly I don't know, it isn't something I've tried. We do have customers who have used our tri 4-bar kit on 12-bolts, and typically they'll lessen the UCA plan view angle, which is OK to a certain degree. We try to tell customers to keep the UCAs at 30* or more (plan view again, relative to the frame rail) for lateral stability. There indeed are many triangulated kits on 12-bolts, but we'll only offer ours in a way we know works the best possible.

The only way I can see our clip working with a 12-bolt is if we left the UCA frame brackets tacked on, and the housing brackets loose. I'm quite sure you'd have to modify both frame and housing brackets in order for it to work. For as much as you can sell a 12-bolt for a first gen Camaro, I'd go ahead and do a 9"...

slownova73
07-15-2009, 04:32 PM
those frame rails look strong as hell, theyll pay off in the long run!

blown69nova
07-15-2009, 08:19 PM
This setup looks fantastic!
Will this work in a high hp drag/street application?
I know this is not made for drag, but fox Mustangs, g body's etc. use similar setups.
Steve

silver69camaro
07-16-2009, 05:17 AM
This setup looks fantastic!
Will this work in a high hp drag/street application?
I know this is not made for drag, but fox Mustangs, g body's etc. use similar setups.
Steve

It could be made to work, yes. Like you said, wouldn't be as ideal as our true 4-link, but should work well with a nice tire.

camaro2nv
07-19-2009, 01:56 PM
Sunday afternoon, time to put some work in. Boy this Morrison rear clip fits like a glove. It fit so tight I dont know how measurements could be off. I still have to weld it in but I got it in place for now.
Raise the rear first to get it in place.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0186-1.jpg
Little bit from the front and rear jacks now
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0187-1.jpg
Added a ratchet strap to help with the one man show,lol
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0189-1.jpg
3.2.1....
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0191-1.jpg
CONTACT!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0192-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0192-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0197-1.jpg
These are the only two holes you need to drill on each side. That way you can get to the nut
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0202-1.jpg
Thats it for now. Later on when it cools off in the garage Ill tack it in pace and put the rear axle in place. 105 outside is just too hot, I bet the garage is 120.

camaro2nv
07-19-2009, 07:48 PM
Ok so got the rear end mounted. Man she looks good! Cant wait to get the tru track in!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0206-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0207-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0208-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0213-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/07/DSC_0214-1.jpg

Corinthian
07-21-2009, 10:29 AM
Nice pics, looks like it's going in well. I've had mine for about a year now and have only had time get the front sub in =(

I see you've tacked plates on the rear of the rails, is that just to keep debris out or did you have another reason?

Also, thanks Matt for the earlier overview of the install it made it sound very easy and straightforward.

camaro2nv
07-23-2009, 06:30 PM
Nice pics, looks like it's going in well. I've had mine for about a year now and have only had time get the front sub in =(

I see you've tacked plates on the rear of the rails, is that just to keep debris out or did you have another reason?

Also, thanks Matt for the earlier overview of the install it made it sound very easy and straightforward.
The plates come with the kit. The instructions say to weld them on to the end and then to weld them to the rear pan.

Corinthian
07-29-2009, 02:46 PM
Thanks for the reply! My kit didn't come with plates or instructions, I've sent an email off the to the sales person.